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45thtiger 0109	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:20:00 - [61] I fly a Typhoon before the change in rev II when i was missioning my torps would hit a rats at approx 65km. Now after the nerf to the torps my max range is 14km. If you are doing a lvl 4 mission by yourself you would need to keep a large distance between yourself and the rats.I would agree if ccp increased the range to at least 50km max.I know alot of people would dissagree with what i am saying but for mission runners it would help us to use the torps again. I have also noticed not many people are buying the seige launchers from the market as they where in revelations II and also there has been a big price drop for the seige launchers as well. As someone said in these posts cruise missiles do not have the same effect as torps do.Torps do not have that greater effect on smaller ships.So i hope some of you will agree with what i am saying.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:33:00 - [62] Originally by: Xeliya Originally by: Gator1 and yes cruise missles are for long range but yet again i have specialization 4 and the damage they produce sucks ... Really because the last time I checked cruise had the best DPS of long range BS weapons . . . Oh and I use a Cruise CNR for lv4 missions and have for the last year. Torps as they are now are just pure win for pvp. To be fair cruise are behind tachyons, but as an overall point you are right :) ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:30:00 - [63] Originally by: Sol Gerr Level 4 missions and difficult COSMOS missions, are completely impossible now. ummmmmmmmmmmmmm try cruise missiles? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.31 19:05:00 - [64] Now that some time has elapsed, I'm even more glad to see the change to torps. Now the raven has a viable shortrange high damage armament useful in PvP. And level 4 missions are still easily doable using cruise missiles, for the ones where the enemy ships orbit too far away to kill with torpedos.
45thtiger 0109	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:50:00 - [65] Quote: Now that some time has elapsed, I'm even more glad to see the change to torps. Now the raven has a viable shortrange high damage armament useful in PvP. And level 4 missions are still easily doable using cruise missiles, for the ones where the enemy ships orbit too far away to kill with torpedos. I Know they are good for PVP at close range, but for mission running they are usless you need the distance if you want to mission run. Cruise missiles do not put the same output as torps do when mission running.If CCP would give cruise missiles some more DPS then it would not be a problem to mission run with cruise. Also torps can do alot of DPS to the Battleship in missioning and a small amount to samll ships.Thats why i am asking CCP if they could extend the range of torps to at least 40km - 50 km for the mission runners then that would be fair.
Aeyar Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:55:00 - [66] cant believe this debate is still going. use cruises for missions, period! they dont do a lot less dps compared to torps before the change to them, as the rof was always higher. ive never been using torps in missions, just because of their rof and had no troubles running any lvl 4's. adapt! and torps range is fine like it is now. else the gallente want 100km range on their blasters next.
Chencherra Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:50:00 - [67] Originally by: Voin Those who stand in stupidity idea of Torpedo is a short range weapon, you just show your misknowledge about Torpedo itself... Google will help you to find out what in the world have been Torpedos with range over 100km... Surprise? You, Sir, fail ! Maybe google for cruise missiles. Im sure you will find out that torpedos are closerange and cruise missiles are long range.
stoneyharrie2	Posted - 2008.02.07 11:55:00 - [68] torpedo's a pvp weapon theres a point,, 30km is fine with me but i prefer cruise missiles thou,, a cruise does like 400 dmg a torp 500,, + it has bigger sig so doesnt hit anything small then bs anyway,, just train up cruise missiles :) for such a short range id expect more dmg,, blaster are like 50% stronger then rails too right? :P
Cyriel Longinus XERCORE	Posted - 2008.02.07 13:46:00 - [69] Edited by: Cyriel Longinus on 07/02/2008 13:54:48 Hello, I've trained torpedo specialization and engineering, weapons upgrade, electronics and missile support skills to use torpedo setups. It was difficult to field a well balance of tank and damage in a Raven before the changes to the torpedos. A lot of time and imagination was devoted toward that goal and testing setup concepts. My feedback about the recent changes to torpedos... Torpedo Vs. NPCs - annoying, not fun, I rather use something else Torpedo Vs. Players - useless After much testing since the changes I have conclude that I don't use torpedoes anymore. Related Comment: Take a step into the world of EvE not as Developer, Gamer or Critic. Envision developing weapons technology in the EvE universe as people do in the real world. Ask yourself why would the corporations devoted to developing cutting edge military technology would suddenly decide that after years of battlefield tested service that a weapon such as the torpedo should take an evolutionary step backwards. Introduction of such dramatics changes is unrealistic. Somehow in EvE, the four empires have agreed to dictate that the universe are confined to the use of a weapon that now has reduced capability in comparison to what has been on the market for several years. Currently the development of weapon's technology in EvE is derailed with no continuity. I know that's not the case in EvE. I'm aware of the genuine effort to make improvement to make EvE enjoyable for everyone. My comment is comes from wondering ... if CCP is willing to hire a Economist, a Fashion Designer and Architects to help develop EvE then why not hire a Futurist (i.e a Ray Kurzweil mofo) to develop a structure of technological evolution for the EvE Universe? A Futurist & Weaponologist who is very into EvE and a generation ahead of the changes and is there to help the Devs plan the evolution of technology in New Eden. To me it seems crazy to develop in a style of reaction rather than having plan. Exmaple: The evolution of real world Guns, Armor Vehicles and Aircraft. Actually, I might elaborate on this comment in another thread as a suggestion when I have my thoughts more collected about it.
Terianna Eri Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Torpedo Vs. NPCs - annoying, not fun, I rather use something else Use cruise missiles then. Quote: Torpedo Vs. Players - useless Fit a target painter / have one person in gang with a target painter ==> suddenly omgbbq Quote: Related Comment: (bla bla real-live comparison bla) Game balance >>>>>> real-world sense. Quote: My comment is comes from wondering ... if CCP is willing to hire a Economist, a Fashion Designer and Architects to help develop EvE then why not hire a Futurist (i.e a Ray Kurzweil mofo) to develop a structure of technological evolution for the EvE Universe? I really, really, really don't think CCP needs to do this, especially as I'll bet there are dozens of people on these very forums who would do that for free. Also, Ray Kurzweil is evil. __________________________________
Gypsio III Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:46:00 - [71] Quote: Torpedo Vs. Players - useless I think something is indeed "useless" here, but it's not the torps...
Cyriel Longinus XERCORE	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:32:00 - [72] Terianna Eri, Of course I have Cruise Missile Specialization, faction cruise missiles and target painters in my hangar. I have few more years in game than assumed, your not telling me anything new ... but thanks for trying to be helpful or offer feedback on what I had said. I made comments in a "Torp" discussion and it's true that I don't use them anymore when I can deliver more damage using other methods. The Futurist suggestion is just a idea, nothing more. It came from a hope that somehow there could be a more organic evolution than dramatic balance changes. Obviously there is nothing wrong with wanting that. Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: Torpedo Vs. Players - useless I think something is indeed "useless" here, but it's not the torps... Hey CAOD is that way you nub, go troll elsewhere.
Gromilia	Posted - 2008.02.20 12:58:00 - [73] By the way Guys and Girls CCP dose have an Economist for eve-online. This is what he has said, Trinity introduced a change to the attributes of torpedoes; they now have shorter range but a higher rate of fire. However, it seems that most pilots had valued the range since prices of torpedo launchers and torpedoes dropped by 60% to 70%, while price of cruise launchers skyrocketed. These figures clearly show changes in price for Siege Launchers and Cruise Launchers. Here is the link http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_Q4-2007.pdf Enjoy the reading.
Eaterof Children	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Gromilia By the way Guys and Girls CCP dose have an Economist for eve-online. This is what he has said, Trinity introduced a change to the attributes of torpedoes; they now have shorter range but a higher rate of fire. However, it seems that most pilots had valued the range since prices of torpedo launchers and torpedoes dropped by 60% to 70%, while price of cruise launchers skyrocketed. These figures clearly show changes in price for Siege Launchers and Cruise Launchers. Here is the link http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_Q4-2007.pdf Enjoy the reading. Obviously. The most expensive weapons in the game are the ones missionrunners use, and missionrunners need the range of cruises.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.20 15:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: Torpedo Vs. Players - useless I think something is indeed "useless" here, but it's not the torps... Indeed. Can I get 30km range and zero cap use on my neutron blasters too? That is a "nerf" I would most certainly enjoy. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.20 22:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Sol Gerr The changes they have made to the flight time of Torpedo's to 6 sec. creates unfair game play. Level 4 missions and difficult COSMOS missions, are completely impossible now. All the NPC's have tremendous advantage, even using much more inferior weapons, even turrets have a longer range then Torpedos now. This move has effectively rendered topedos obselete. Please reconsider changing Torp. fligth time to something more realistic. You have effectively changed our torp range from 87km to 16km! Takes me 10minutes just to get in the range of NPCs who are pounding me the entire time. Does that seem REALISTIC? Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills... I am sure a better solution exsists to even out the Caldari advantage which could be more realistic and fair to all. Because 10 threads about this wasn't enough. They finally gave caldari a pvp weapon... shut up before they take it away this! now please change ham and rockets accordingly to torp change I declare war on stupidity
Back Again Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.20 23:41:00 - [77] ??? To summarize: nerf Caldari, boost Amarr, let Gallente as it is and stealth boost Minmatar? I'm amazed with ppl that come to the forum and ask for nerf in something they don't use and boost something they, actually, use. Well, it's the human behavior... I'm doing what the Devs want: spending some more months crosstraining to be able to fly and use another race stuff. I realized that being a missionrunner was not that fun at all and tried some PvP with my ships and had not been that effective, so I'd restarted in another path. It would be the same thing if you started as a miner and later you saw yourself bored and changed your training to be a pirate... EVE is this way, you are not tied to any profession or ships/modules, you can change your path, always. OFC, you will not be effective soon (TM) if you don't focus, but hey!! WTH, we make mistakes here too, not only in RL... No signature here, only the bright light of a ship exploding right in front of me... Ohhh, wait, I'm in a pod!! It was my ship!!!
Devick Baalreth	Posted - 2008.02.29 09:28:00 - [78] Love the new changes, give them another 5KM range and I won't care anymore. I can take another month or two to train cruise spec and guided missile percision if I want to rat. I just find a leash a tad bit short (otherwise fine with me). ____________________________________ Must give Credit to this signature's creator, its awesome.
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2008.02.29 11:14:00 - [79] Cruise = long range Torp = short range On a Raven you can reach 30km with Torps On a Phoon you can reach 20km with Torps and around 23km with ACs (all without using Rigs) Sounds right to me.. Support Cailais' idea of LowSec MKII
Commander 598 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.29 20:52:00 - [80] I don't think range was a very good way to balance these... Damage + Accuracy (Signature) + Velocity probably would have been better with overall range not really being an issue. It just feels like we've temporarily traded torps for cruises until those get changed/nerfed/whatever. I think having weapons being pretty much exclusively PVP or PVE isn't exactly balancing. Idea Time: It just seems to make sense to me that cruise missiles are very accurate, with a bit longer range and probably reaches much higher speeds thus generally enabling one to do damage faster than torps, however not being giant death rockets means they wouldn't do as much sheer damage. Torps (And all current "short range missiles" for that matter) are generally meant to represent borderline unguided battleship killers. They're basically useless against small and fast targets and take a long time to even get to the target but lots of damage to adequately sized targets, however you shouldn't be forced to point blank for using them instead of cruises. They would kill things a lot faster up close but you wouldn't be forced to be up close. The amount of damage done at range by cruise missiles within a set period of time would be superior to torps but torps would do more damage up close to BS and larger targets. BUT YOU WOULDN'T BE FORCED TO BE AT THOSE RANGES, except perhaps in certain situations where the overall damage increase due to the shorter flight brought about by being at close range would be required to kill some targets, like a good shield booster being used between torp volleys or something. I only trained torps because it didn't require missile launcher operation to be at V (Unlike cruise missiles for some silly reason...) and I didn't feel like spending a week or however many days it would have taken... Then I discovered how much kiting Angels sucked, how expensive range rigs are for someone as poor as me, and how much skill training one had to do just to get at the base range for the heavy missiles I left behind in my previous ship...but I don't really care, the Raven I was using is dead and I'm ratting drones in a my old Drake with 50+km heavy missiles. I just think the way missiles are being balanced is dumb. I also don't get the "Caldari now have a PVP weapon!" posts... I'm pretty sure torps didn't do insignificant damage and didn't have a minimum range before all this business...but I suck at PVP. My atrocious K:D ratio should be obvious proof of this.
Commander Shag No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:31:00 - [81] The torp changes the devs made is one of the best things to ever happen to Caldari. Thank you very much.
Devick Baalreth	Posted - 2008.03.01 08:30:00 - [82] Originally by: Commander Shag The torp changes the devs made is one of the best things to ever happen to Caldari. Thank you very much. It was a good change no doubt, however, I think it was just a tad short ____________________________________ Must give Credit to this signature's creator, its awesome.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:47:00 - [83] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Xeliya Originally by: Gator1 and yes cruise missles are for long range but yet again i have specialization 4 and the damage they produce sucks ... Really because the last time I checked cruise had the best DPS of long range BS weapons . . . Oh and I use a Cruise CNR for lv4 missions and have for the last year. Torps as they are now are just pure win for pvp. To be fair cruise are behind tachyons, but as an overall point you are right :) tachions are totally overpowered compared to rails and cruise missiles :P XD just life with it. besides that NO torps range is alreay a bit high.. and ham and rocket needs the same change (YES i run mission and would love that 800dps on 80km, but in pvp view it is insanely overpowered if we had this. if you tweak it you will have a 60km range with javlin torps.. soo i think that is enough and even too much range for a close range weapon) I declare war on stupidity
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:52:00 - [84] Originally by: stoneyharrie2 torpedo's a pvp weapon theres a point,, 30km is fine with me but i prefer cruise missiles thou,, a cruise does like 400 dmg a torp 500,, + it has bigger sig so doesnt hit anything small then bs anyway,, just train up cruise missiles :) for such a short range id expect more dmg,, blaster are like 50% stronger then rails too right? :P if you don't know what you talking about be quite dude ;) cruise 450-500dps. torp 800-900 dps I declare war on stupidity
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.03.01 16:04:00 - [85] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: stoneyharrie2 torpedo's a pvp weapon theres a point,, 30km is fine with me but i prefer cruise missiles thou,, a cruise does like 400 dmg a torp 500,, + it has bigger sig so doesnt hit anything small then bs anyway,, just train up cruise missiles :) for such a short range id expect more dmg,, blaster are like 50% stronger then rails too right? :P if you don't know what you talking about be quite dude ;) cruise 450-500dps. torp 800-900 dps Originally by: Commander 598 I don't think range was a very good way to balance these... Damage + Accuracy (Signature) + Velocity probably would have been better with overall range not really being an issue. It just feels like we've temporarily traded torps for cruises until those get changed/nerfed/whatever. I think having weapons being pretty much exclusively PVP or PVE isn't exactly balancing. first of cruise reach over 250km+ torps reach 30km. as all other weapon close range = high dmg long range=keep you out of harms way problem: cruise takes WAY to long to reach it's target from 250km so boost missiles base speed to 3* what it is now +- there fixed ^^ I declare war on stupidity
45thtiger 0109	Posted - 2008.03.05 16:16:00 - [86] Another thing i have noticed about the torp nerf if you attack a medium & large POS and you dont have the range to hit it.If right across the board have the torps set say at 30km that would be better than 20km to attack those POSSES. The only POS i can use torps are the small POS. I know dreads would be used for POS warfair but more DPS on the towers the better it take the pos down. I have to agree to this comment also Quote: first of cruise reach over 250km+ torps reach 30km. as all other weapon close range = high dmg long range=keep you out of harms way problem: cruise takes WAY to long to reach it's target from 250km so boost missiles base speed to 3* what it is now +-
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:58:00 - [87] Originally by: Buyerr first of cruise reach over 250km+ torps reach 30km. as all other weapon close range = high dmg long range=keep you out of harms way problem: cruise takes WAY to long to reach it's target from 250km so boost missiles base speed to 3* what it is now +- there fixed ^^ This got me thinking. It would be nice if CCP added a midrange weapon. As you point out, torps go to a max of around 30km while cruise do over 250km. There's a whole lot of room between these two ranges. How about a weapon that could reach a max of say, 100km and do damage in between what a torp and cruise missile would do. Yes, I realize we could fit MWD's and rush towards the target. But variety would be nice for a change. MWD's and nanos shouldn't be the answer for everything. Caldari ships are slow to begin with. Missiles are inherently slow. MWDing and armor-tanking Caldari ships just isn't effective and it isn't what they were meant to do. Anyway, my point is that given that the long range weapons are very long and the short range weapons very short, there is room to add an in-between in there for all the weapon types in the game. I think that'd be a fair compromise and would give more variety to the game. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr

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