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Assault Frigate vs. Interceptor for Low(ish) SP ganking and PVP

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Squatdog	Posted - 2007.12.13 08:43:00 - [1] What would be the better option for someone with 4m or so SP, 160m ISK in the bank and a steady income from 0.0 ratting in a Drake? Basically, I want something I can solo with (to a degree) pop unsuspecting haulers, tackle in small gangs and in general ruin other people's enjoyment of the game? ;) In a couple of weeks time, I'll have Electronics, Engineering, Standard Missiles, Missile Operation and Weapon Upgrades at 5 if that makes any difference.
Ogron Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:24:00 - [2] AF's are generally a bit 'meh' to be honest. They lack the oompf of a larger ship and lack the speed of an inty. Generally I would go for an Inty hands down. Especially with the changes that you can get a point from 28 km away, orbit with mwd and wait for big guns to come in to help. As for solo, well in a t2 frig you can take other frig size ships, and nubs in cruisers and destroyers with bad skills/setups. ------------------------------------------ The Killers: 'I've got soul, but I'm not a soldier' Bill Baily: That's ********, it's like saying "I've got ham, but I'm not a hamster"
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:31:00 - [3] AFs are not THAT bad. They are slow for a frig, yes; however they do a nice bit of damage and do not break the bank to loose one. Besides, if you train frig to 5 you should already have engineering and mechanic 5....right?
Galack Fyar	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:39:00 - [4] Everything depending of course, the more damage related assault frigs can tear down Battlecruisers in minutes or less, so they are nice in that respect. Generally if you get webbed or neutralized then you're dead though, even with those shiney resists you aren't going to last long. I'd probably go ceptor and have sombody in a fast, cheap, damage fit cruiser provide dakka dakka (or vice versa).
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:45:00 - [5] Something I have found to be key for surviving at point blank range in an AF vs. anything bigger is to orbit as close as you possibly can. If you are webbed, he is webbed, but you have an angular velocity of OHSNAP you won't get touched. If you are an idiot and turn on your MWD at any time durring this orbit you will die. Very, very fast.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Annowyn Something I have found to be key for surviving at point blank range in an AF vs. anything bigger is to orbit as close as you possibly can. If you are webbed, he is webbed, but you have an angular velocity of OHSNAP you won't get touched. If you are an idiot and turn on your MWD at any time durring this orbit you will die. Very, very fast. Works only in conjuction with an AB (MWD kills you) and if the cruiser/BC pilot is very, very stupid and doesn't (very simply) counteract this move, or if his fit is simply bad. Which happens occasionally, but you're betting a 20M AF+fit on it. I'd sooner bet a 2-3M Rifter on it, thank you. At any rate, I understand the OP is interested in soloing. Well, if you want to solo-kill in a frig sized ships, then frig-sized ships are mostly going to be your targets, where a Crow is probably your best bet, and you're very unlikely to lose one (and if you don't pimp it to hell and back, it's not that expensive). Rifters!
Squatdog	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:54:00 - [7] Yeah, I was thinking of a Crow build along the lines of: Standard Missile II X 3 Prototype Cloaking Device I ... Webber Jammer MWD II ... PDS II Nano II x 2 Obviously, I'd switch out the Cloaking Device to free up CPU depending on the role I was in.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:01:00 - [8] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/12/2007 11:02:32 Well, do take into account the reduced scan res and all (and retargeting delay after uncloaking) into account if you're going to use the cloak. Then again, people just may run away when they see a Crow on scanner in the first place Also, don't pack a web: you don't want to be in webrange, ever, so you might as well pack something for cap stability, and I'm not sure about the PDU in the lows (do you need it for the fit?). Remember the inties got a lot more cap stable running the distruptor II since the last patch. Rifters!
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:05:00 - [9] Don't become another t1 frig killing crow pilot. It is so boring to watch the 3 missiles slowly kill things.
ubberdog	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:16:00 - [10] Hi, AF's ae the balls! Get an enyo, or jag, fit some guns, orbit close and fast and see what goes pop! I like my enyo, it does great damage, and can get me away from gate camps and other things a blinky red guy needs to run from If you have any drone skills an Ishkur, even after the nerf, is a great ship. A little more pricey but worth the money. P.S. I am an alt lol
Kalidann Caldari Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:21:00 - [11] After fighting a railgun enyo fitted with a tacking enhancer in my crusader I am now scared of them... He was putting out excelent hits right and left (didn't save him from our rapier and falcon that warped in right as I got away though )
Katrina Coreli The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:34:00 - [12] If you can cross train to the Taranis :) fast, nice dps, v good for harrasing and killing weak targets and doing it quick. Also makes a decent tackler ----------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE!
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:38:00 - [13] I'm not sure putting a web on a ship fitted to fly fast (therefore out of web range) is a good idea.
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:46:00 - [14] The OP has 4M SP ffs, and you suggest cross training to ships that use other weapon systems that what he already has Why? Cause you are bored of Crows slowly killing stuff? Get the Crow m8...dunno about the Cloak tho...you might lose some, so don't fit expensive stuff on it...a full T2 "standard" tackler fit can kill and be almost unteachable by T1 frigs and most T1 cruisers. The AFs could be fun but less safe to fly solo. Don't get carried away into crosstraining ANYTHING, even low rank frig skills before you you fill up important skill "gaps". I am he, the bornless one
Squatdog	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:57:00 - [15] Wouldn't a Webber be good for tackling in group PVP, to stop the target MWDing away from the support, or kiting them around? Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/12/2007 11:02:32 I'm not sure about the PDU in the lows (do you need it for the fit?). Remember the inties got a lot more cap stable running the distruptor II since the last patch. The PDU adds to the Cap and Cap Regen, but most importantly let's me shoehorn everything onto the ship. According to EFT, this build leaves me with 45.38 out of 45.94 Capacitor
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Squatdog Wouldn't a Webber be good for tackling in group PVP, to stop the target MWDing away from the support, or kiting them around? If you can web someone, he can web you, and you don't want to know how long a crow lives when webbed AND mwd-ing (making medium longer range turrets track so beautifully). You stick out of webrange and keep a point on the guy, there is absolutely no reason to go into webrange on a Crow. If you want your gang's tacklers to web, using one of the most expensive interceptors out there is not a good call imho. Rifters!
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Squatdog Wouldn't a Webber be good for tackling in group PVP, to stop the target MWDing away from the support, or kiting them around? Yeah, but that's what we have T1 frigates and heavy tacklers (aka cruiser-size ships) for. Your job is to put a point of scram on there and stay alive. A webbed interceptor is a DEAD interceptor, get this in your head. Do not orbit closer than 15km against ordinary targets. Push that out to 22km or so vs. the Hyena. Just plain run from Huginns/Rapiers/Bhaalgorns. Keep your MWD going, speed = life. ------------------- I nerfed my own sig To amuse you, here is my Retriever ever since its first Trinity deployment. RIP. * * * * ** * * * ** * * * * * *** *
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 13/12/2007 13:12:27 Originally by: Squatdog The PDU adds to the Cap and Cap Regen, but most importantly let's me shoehorn everything onto the ship. According to EFT, this build leaves me with 45.38 out of 45.94 Capacitor The SML II are very demanding for such a small ship, I know, that's why I've suggested working on your engineering skills to raise your PG a bit, then Advanced Weapon Upgrades to lower your SML fitting requirements. Even with a maxed out character you cannot support all these T2 mods you've putted in. - you could do it with an "all-at-V" EFT character, but even then without the cloaking device. Try replacing the MWD with a named T1 or even the SML to arbalest or something to free up some PG. IMHO lows should be all speed mods, you could add a BCU, even a small rep if it fits, all these make more sense than the PDU. Use a mid slot named cap recharger if you want to be cap stable. Originally by: Acoco Osiris Originally by: Squatdog A webbed interceptor is a DEAD interceptor, get this in your head. Do not orbit closer than 15km against ordinary targets. Push that out to 22km or so vs. the Hyena. Just plain run from Huginns/Rapiers/Bhaalgorns. Keep your MWD going, speed = life. I agree with this fellow... Web range for you = web range for your opponent. Unless you are up against an Industrial web ranges are not what you should be within, and webbing an industrial that could be stabbed is the LAST think that you would do...even if you close on an indy, that would be for bumping / stopping his alignment to warp out. I am he, the bornless one
Requiescat Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Ogron As for solo, well in a t2 frig you can take other frig size ships, and nubs in cruisers and destroyers with bad skills/setups. Quote: other frig size ships, and nubs in cruisers and destroyers with bad skills/setups. Quote: bad skills/setups. Quote: bad setups Linky Victory - Honor = Loss
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:21:00 - [20] Maybe try a hyena if you can get the skills for it in a reasonable amount of time. It can web from a decent range and deal abit of damage as well. Solo you're limited to frigs or low sp cruisers here as well ofc but it might be a nice addition to a gang :)
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Requiescat Linky Which is why I said, bad setup. Fail to figure out fitting priorities on his part and wrong ammo choice as well (Nuclear? Fusion M is better then faction Nuclear M). Active tank is also bad on a Rupture. Even if you're T1 fitting a cruiser, you want to have a good web. If you're T2 fitting a cruiser, you want to have a T2 web or at least a X5 (fleeting is a bit expensive on a cruiser and not really necessary anyway). On a Rupture, a named/T2 MWD is your friend as well, because the thing saving you from a blaster-Rax isn't your damage output or your tank, but your speed. Reason why you should never, ever fit a T1 web on a cruiser? Duh. My Rifter on a AB goes 240m/s under a T1 web, while a Rupture under a X5 (which I do use on a Rifter) is hardly moving at all, and with a MWD on goes less then 240m/s, making him unable to drop transversal, and, therefore, dead. I've killed cruiser pilots in frigs that way. It's just a matter of bad piloting and bad fitting on their part. It is absolutely trivial to command engagement range and transversal in a Rupture versus a AF. Rifters!
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:38:00 - [22] Are you people seriously trying to suggest that frigates are/should be solo ships? Some of them can solo in the right situation if the target is chosen, however frigates are gang/team-work ships. At 4m SP, I'd stick to t1 frig tackling until you get the hang of proper tackling instead of jumping straight into an inty. Learn the hard way and get better once you get a new ship that expands your potential instead of going straight into easy mode. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Requiescat Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Requiescat on 13/12/2007 13:44:57 Originally by: Cpt Branko Various attempts at downplaying the Ishkur's pwn levels Who made you the setup police? Since when is fitting exactly what everyone else does a good thing? He had a mostly t2 setup, with t2 220 autos firing phased plasma. I had my AB off. The major thing that screwed him over was that he didn't have any drones. All ships have to pick their targets judiciously when flying solo, t2 frigates are no different. Would you take anything in solo against a neut Domi? Would you take a Pilgrim in solo against a Typhoon? Would you take a Myrm in solo against an Ishtar? Like it or not, even solo pwnmobile ships have to watch out for some other setups. I like to fly AFs because they are, in my opinion, much more mobile than cruisers while retaining about the same level of firepower and at least as much tank. I fly my Ishkur over my Taranis because it's more fun, anyway. Where's the fun in orbiting a target at 20km and shooting it until it dies while it can't do anything about you? Originally by: Leon 026 Rawr I'm Leon This is Leon, he is made of truth and win, listen to him Victory - Honor = Loss
Dark Voynix Universal Exports	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Annowyn AFs are not THAT bad. They are slow for a frig, yes; however they do a nice bit of damage and do not break the bank to loose one. Besides, if you train frig to 5 you should already have engineering and mechanic 5....right? 9 U are right ... they are sorse that that. there simply no reason to use an AF if u can do the same things ( and better ) in a scandard cruiser. Some times ago i just trained an alt for 1 month and took a 1600 plate vexor and went baiting in low sec.. i killed several ishkur ( pre nerf), enyos, retributions and wolfs. Some of the pilot was 2-3 years old, and with skill maxed. What's the point to use an AF if a now can kill u with cheaper setup and wrong skills? the only way to win a cruiser pitot with an AF is to engage someone who does not know how to fit them. my noob setup was something like: 5x small nos mwd, web, scramble small sep, dc, eam, 1600 plate load of drones U will be surprised how many "experienced" af pilot u will kill because they think they found an easy prey, and immedialy say "vtf!" when they see how slowly u are diing.
Prometheus Exenthal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:20:00 - [25] Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 13/12/2007 14:22:10 Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 13/12/2007 14:21:41 A sweet gank setup for the Enyo that I've played with on the test server is something like this: Small Armor Repairer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II x2 Internal Force Field Array I 1MN Afterburner II Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [200] Light Neutron Blaster II [Void S] x4 Anti-Explosive Pump I Anti-Thermic Pump I Hobgoblin II x1 With maximum skills it does a gross 275dps (incl. reload) with a 556 volley. Now that's enough to tear anything apart. The thing about wanting to kill anything at close range and survive is that it works best when you have someone in a ceptor zipping around at 20km+ with the point. However, not only are these ships great for ganking, they are great anti-frigate support in gangs. Just swap out the blasters for some 125mm rails and iridium/iron and you can pick off any interceptor no matter HOW fast they are all while having huge cap and sweet resists as well as a rep. Just do yourself a favour and don't solo in one. You either will be very low on cap, OR your opponent will be able to flee. -
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:35:00 - [26] You're gonna laugh at this suggestion but it makes inty pilot run away... - A Hawk - 4 Standard missile Launcher II's 20 km scram, resist amp, Small Shield Booster II, Small Cap Boost 1 Ballistic Control System, 1 CPU Missile Velocity and Explosion Velocity rig. With precision missiles you can really damage an inty pilot blazing around at 7000-8000 m/s. Will you keep him in one place? Nope - unless your opponent is a blaster taranis and you use a web instead of resist amp. You really cant tackle much - its just meant as a - surprise to speedy/enemy tacklers pilots! I tanked 3 inty pilots at once using this setup (knocked 1 into structure, the others were a good bit into armor) - until their friend in a Thorax showed up In a small frig gang its a great anti-tackle support - this + inty = dead enemy friggies! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Omarvelous You're gonna laugh at this suggestion but it makes inty pilot run away... - A Hawk - 4 Standard missile Launcher II's 20 km scram, resist amp, Small Shield Booster II, Small Cap Boost 1 Ballistic Control System, 1 CPU Missile Velocity and Explosion Velocity rig. With precision missiles you can really damage an inty pilot blazing around at 7000-8000 m/s. Will you keep him in one place? Nope - unless your opponent is a blaster taranis and you use a web instead of resist amp. You really cant tackle much - its just meant as a - surprise to speedy/enemy tacklers pilots! I tanked 3 inty pilots at once using this setup (knocked 1 into structure, the others were a good bit into armor) - until their friend in a Thorax showed up In a small frig gang its a great anti-tackle support - this + inty = dead enemy friggies! I don't know if its good enough, as I don't fly T2 caldari at all, but AT LEAST this poster took notice that 1) That the OP is a low skill/young Caldari pilot, probably with or close to Caldari Frig V and 2) missiles skills up to or close to T2 SML... Granted that the OP didn't name its thread accordingly, so many ppl that would like to read of non-Caldari ceptors vs. AF's debate could take some advise, still... I am he, the bornless one

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