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Postlatta Mouseanon
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.13 17:19:00 -
[1]
I do love ya guys... I must... I send you money every month.
But....
I decided to uninstall the linux client and go back to the Windows client.
This happened for a number of reasons, which might be important to note:
1. Speed
2. Cedega. I'm not happy with this product. Since CCP went with them I bought a subscription thinking I may be able to play other games as well. Uh uh... This thing doesn't work well (And apparently the "pay version" conflicts with the EVE version).
3. Stability.
Now I understand a number of things will supposedly be handled by a patch. However I have to wonder the following:
I probably could, as a sys admin with 22 years experience, muck around with Cedega et al and get the thing working (maybe?). But since moving back to Windows is easier, or alternatively hacking wine/waiting for release is easier. I just brought the Windows client back to the machine.
Now here's the important bit: THANK YOU for making these attempts to get a working Linux situation. You are NOT losing my account. I'm NOT ravingly ****ed!
It should however indicate a disparity in ease of use, or usability, between the old school Windows Client and the Cedega wrapped version.
May I suggest that since you are using software with an open source core, that things might be a little smoother if you brought one or two strict open source developers on staff (No I do not need a job). I'm merely pointing out the following:
1. If you actually port to OpenGL, you can serve both platforms (Mac and Linux) without two separate wrappers. This is a better solution from a support and maintenance standpoint.
2. Moving across Linux distributions/Upgrades and Mac OS version becomes easier and more manageable.
3. You can support any *nix with X there is.
4. You are FREE. You aren't going to have to wait for developers to catch up with you (Thus slowing down your windows rollouts and patching).
5. You've seen the writing on the wall. FOSS has begun to leach onto the desktop at an accelerating rate similar to what happened with Linux first replacing Unix in the datacenter, and then displacing Windows based servers. So you *know* the market en masse is there in two to three years- maybe faster.
In closing let me say I really *appreciate* your foray into my beloved world of *nix. I support it totally. I want you to succeed.
However, if you do not pony up into the OpenGL world you will have a disadvantage in the non Windows market. And I'll assume you do not want to be in *that* position.
Here in the states, Linux is being sold at Walmart on cheap PCs- it's only a matter of time before it becomes an option on any desktop.
CCP- don't miss this opportunity... port to OpenGL directly.
Thank you for your time.
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Mamede
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:36:00 -
[2]
I totally agree on this. I'm pretty sure u though of that but.Would the pay to port to opengl would be that different to a wrapped version? CCP is overratted and the proof is premium runs in wine and not in TG yet(even with all your support to them).
Transgamming lost their way one or two years ago and I don't know why.
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Postlatta Mouseanon
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.13 22:42:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mamede
I totally agree on this. I'm pretty sure u though of that but.Would the pay to port to opengl would be that different to a wrapped version? CCP is overratted and the proof is premium runs in wine and not in TG yet(even with all your support to them).
Transgamming lost their way one or two years ago and I don't know why.
I think I can answer your question assuming I understand it.
Here it goes: The only independent Mac porting house I'm aware of was Westlake Interactive, now MacSoft http://www.destineerstudios.com/macsoftgames/
Peter Tamte the founder of Destineer Studios was formerly with Bungie (!!)
Westlake/Destineer were responsible for bringing games like the Unreal Series to Mac Classic, and Mac OSX. They did a true complete port from d3d to OpenGL for a number of titles in the series. They also were responsible for the Mac port of Everquest, Deus Ex, and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets- all d3d games if I recall.
In theory, because OSX is essentially built around GCC, and the GNU userland, a company like this might be able to port the entire game to OGL and the code (with very little modification) could be compiled on Linux and be *functional*.
MacOS and Linux are painfully similar, both developed with GCC, both dependent on the GNU userland, and the kernel source is available for both (for MacOS in the form of Darwin). In fact, Cedega and Cider are developed on GCC, the same code base- a variant of Wine. Also notable is the whole Python language availability- even though CCP uses stackless.
So while it would be more expensive to do a true *port* of the game to OpenGL for both OS, it would yield better results IMHO.
I do have to say that CCP probably has good reasons for doing things the way they are doing them, which is why I hope I'm not coming off as critical. Perhaps they are just testing the usability of the Cedega/Cider option to check the response.
Though I would imagine that there would be a huge amount income gained if they got a significant percentage of just Ubuntu users to play the game ($$ !!).
Sorry for restating some things here, but I'm a real CCP fan and spend a significant amount of my free time playing EVE. I'd like to see as much success as possible.
I'd also like to eliminate Windows on my workstation and utility machines. CCP currently holds this key...
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M1AU
The X-Trading Company
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.13 23:09:00 -
[4]
I also have to basically agree with the op.
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UberL0rd
Minmatar
Brotherhood of Polar Equation
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.12.14 09:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon
In theory, because OSX is essentially built around GCC, and the GNU userland, a company like this might be able to port the entire game to OGL and the code (with very little modification) could be compiled on Linux and be *functional*.
Uh, OSX is built around FreeBSD, not GNU. FreeBSD does use some GNU knobs, like gcc, binutils and sort, but that's about it.
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I use Gentoo/Linux and Gentoo uses software I write |
Postlatta Mouseanon
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.14 14:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: UberL0rd
Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon
In theory, because OSX is essentially built around GCC, and the GNU userland, a company like this might be able to port the entire game to OGL and the code (with very little modification) could be compiled on Linux and be *functional*.
Uh, OSX is built around FreeBSD, not GNU. FreeBSD does use some GNU knobs, like gcc, binutils and sort, but that's about it.
Please re-read what I wrote.
You've either mis read what I wrote, or you've never developed on either platform.
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.14 15:18:00 -
[7]
I'd chime in for the desire for a true "native" port as well, but, and here is there is ALWAYS a "but"...
EVE is NOT a static game. If CCP isn't willing to commit resources to an opengl native client it may never happen regardless of different companies willing to "port".
Reason? EVE isn't a game that receives a few patches in its lifetime and that's it. EVE is an MMO that is constantly changing and evolving. Everytime there is a new patch for EVE, it would require maintenance by the porting entity. EVERY TIME.
We have seen this with wine/cedega breakage for even small patches occasionally. Now, moving forward with Trinity, these changes are going to be including new GFX, environments and ambulation all within the next year or so, with maintenance and update patches in between. (anybody think the trinity update is done needs to look at gallente station interiors.....the quafe station interiors haven't been impemented...yet.)
Yes, the old "open source the client" is another train of thought, and YES there is an MMO out there doing exactly that right now, but they set up the model from the very beginning. See: Planeshift MMO
While it would be nice for this to occur, I personally ain't holding my breath.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Mamede
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:58:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Mamede on 15/12/2007 03:03:08
actually..after the port was done....they could use opengl too for windows..
besides...doesn't trangaming need to check each patch everytime too?
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.15 10:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mamede
Edited by: Mamede on 15/12/2007 03:03:08
actually..after the port was done....they could use opengl too for windows..
besides...doesn't trangaming need to check each patch everytime too?
My point was simply that CCP isn't going to do the opengl thing, so the client would then HAVE to be outsourced.....and i doubt that's gonna happen.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Snowcrash Winterheart2
Gallente
Concordia Discors
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Posted - 2007.12.15 16:29:00 -
[10]
Quite so, it'd also require development work on EVE itself to be paused whilst the OGL client was worked on, other wise you end up with a fubar project right from the get go... regardless of it being outsourced or in house.
I'd like a native client, but OTOH I'd be happy with a working & stable Linux client existing in a wrapper.
Currently we have neither.
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Four paws... four sets of claws. |
Adel Sorra
Gallente
Recruitment and Industrial Center
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Posted - 2007.12.16 08:02:00 -
[11]
to fix the 'eve-client breaking cedega'-issue have a look here
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