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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:09:00 -
[1]
I noticed one thing looking at the Amarr ships that are broken or severely gimped. I found that many of them have similar bonuses and intended roles to ships that work very well. For example:
Omen and Armageddon.
Both seem to be intended to be ganking ships. The Armageddon does this very well, with some setups spitting out over 1200 DPS and still having a decent HP buffer. However, the Omen fails at this. Here's some reasons (I think) why:
The Armageddon can easily fit a rack of Mega Pulse II's and still have plenty of CPU/PG left over. It has some CPU issues, but they aren't too big. It also has 8 lowslots, the most of any ship in its class, so it has plenty of room for plates, Heat Sinks, EANs, etc. It lacks midslots, so it performs much better in a gang than solo. The Armageddon can hold 5 Heavy drones, adding about 300 DPS to the mix Now the Omen.. The Omen has almost no room left after fitting 4 Heavy Pulse II's. The only way to fit much of anything is using Quad Light Beam II's. The Omen only has 5 lowslots, which isn't spectacular, and four turret slots, which is just bad. The Omen gets three Light drones. Not even five. Just three.
As you can see, the Omen fails at being the MiniGeddon it's supposed to be.
Another example: Punisher vs Maller vs Prophecy
I will admit that the Maller and Prophecy are pretty good, but the Punisher is badass. One important thing to note: The Punisher works well with Lasers, while the Maller and Prophecy more or less have to use Autocannons.
Here's what I see: The Punisher has more cap and more armor than most other Tech I frigates. It usually wins by not running out of cap first, and having a big buffer of armor to take damage with. The Punisher's PG is very much awesome and big, so you can fit lots of stuff, such as plates, to increase your buffer. The Punisher's Signature Radius is actually a bit small.
The Maller's cap isn't special, nor is the Prophecy's. The Maller has 100 more cap than the Thorax, which is the same increase as the Punisher over the Tristan. Neither has signifigantly more PG than other Cruisers or BC's
For Cap comparison: The Punisher can run a SARII 20 seconds longer than a Tristan, which is a lot in a Frigate fight. The Maller can run a MARII for 14 seconds longer than a Thorax. This is even less extra time than the Punisher gets, and the Maller has three extra guns draining cap. The Prophecy gets two minutes over the Brutix, which is nice, but at that point both sides will have Injectors so it doesn't really matter anymore.
The Maller and Punisher will rep with more efficiency than the Thorax and Tristan, but the Cap and fitting of Lasers gets in the way, at least for the Maller, which has to run six guns, as opposed to the Punisher's three.
The situation for the Prophecy and Maller isn't as bad as it is for the Omen, I will admit, but they could really use help.
For now I'll leave it with these two examples. Discuss and what not... -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
Chucky
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:28:00 -
[2]
God has abandoned Amarr
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Del Narveux on 16/12/2007 22:33:58 The crux of the amarr fails at life problem is that they were clearly designed with the idea that lasers would do much higher damage than other turrets in return for extreme cap use. Hence the energy reduction bonus and smaller number of hardpoints most of their ships. This is obviously not the case, so amarr ships are effectively short one offensive bonus. Hence the obvious boost is to either make lasers much more powerful, as they were apparently intended to be, or lower their cap cost and change the 10% cap reduction bonus to 5% damage, bringing lasers in line with other races.
I prefer the first option as it would make things more interesting in terms of cap wars, and different weapon types are too similar as it is.
update, for people who are new or forgotten: Back in the day there was no stacking penalty, so laser ships actually *could* do extreme damage at high cap cost since they have so much lowslots for heatsinks. This may help explain why the bonuses are what they are... _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2007.12.16 23:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Del Narveux update, for people who are new or forgotten: Back in the day there was no stacking penalty, so laser ships actually *could* do extreme damage at high cap cost since they have so much lowslots for heatsinks. This may help explain why the bonuses are what they are...
Ahh, the 3500 DPS Geddons.. -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.16 23:28:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 16/12/2007 23:29:26 Only Viable Lasership = nightmare
Why? Does decent damage, plenty of mids and needs either no or perhaps max of 1 fitting mod. 7 mids means tracking mods can fit in as well, so it is competitive.
This is what Amarr ships should be like
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Creamy Freshness
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.17 01:01:00 -
[6]
some amarr smaller ships might kind of suck, but geddons are pretty sweet and ur cap ships are super sweet. tbh just fly what ur race's strengths are (or train minnie)
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2007.12.17 01:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Creamy Freshness some amarr smaller ships might kind of suck, but geddons are pretty sweet and ur cap ships are super sweet. tbh just fly what ur race's strengths are (or train minnie)
I know, that was my point with the Omen. It's supposed to be like a smaller Geddon, but it can't be.
I'm flying the ceptors a lot right now, since they seem good -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.17 01:19:00 -
[8]
ummm... duh fit autocannons on it :P
with 8 low solts and **** tons of cap you can tank something like 2000 dps if not more with that extra Powergrid and CPU.
that's more than needed to out tank a mothership.
hehe yes I know it's not a fix the ammar ship should be better with ammar weapons on it.
Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2007.12.17 01:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MotherMoon ummm... duh fit autocannons on it :P
with 8 low solts and **** tons of cap you can tank something like 2000 dps if not more with that extra Powergrid and CPU.
that's more than needed to out tank a mothership.
hehe yes I know it's not a fix the ammar ship should be better with ammar weapons on it.
What ship is this? -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:24:00 -
[10]
The maller, punisher, and prophecy are terrible, please dont use any of them as examples for "good" ships.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goumindong The maller, punisher, and prophecy are terrible, please dont use any of them as examples for "good" ships.
The Maller makes a damn good cruiser-sized damage sponge. Sure, your DPS is going to be somewhere between pathetic and nonexistent, but who needs DPS? (Owait, everyone...)
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Goumindong The maller, punisher, and prophecy are terrible, please dont use any of them as examples for "good" ships.
Don't you say anything about my Punisher! -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Verx Interis
Originally by: Goumindong The maller, punisher, and prophecy are terrible, please dont use any of them as examples for "good" ships.
Don't you say anything about my Punisher!
O.K. your 3 med punisher is great, its also called a "Verx Interis's Rifter", so excuse me if im not worried about its balance.
The Punisher is a ship without a role, its only advantage is in killing frigates when not fitting a propulsion mod. Which is pretty dumb, because there are plenty of ships which can kill frigates just as well while fitting propulsion mods, many of which are low skill ships, such as a thasher.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.17 04:25:00 -
[14]
I find these to be amazingly broken Amarr ships. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2007.12.17 06:59:00 -
[15]
The punisher is actually pretty good compared to other frigates, but that really says more about the fact that everyones frigates totally suck than puni being particularly good.
Maller *is* a good tank, but its damage is virtually nonexistent and a plate vexor can eat almost as much damage with the added bonus of being able to outshoot most cruisers thanks to drones. Prophecy is mediocre at best, it simply cant do anything that another BC cant do much better. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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ISD Santiago Cortes
Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2007.12.17 07:11:00 -
[16]
*Locked*
Please keep Amarr related discussion to This thread
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