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William Hart
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:06:00 -
[1]
0.0 macro ratters, has anyone actually witnessed one of these guys being removed from the game?
I mean, they're not hard to find. It's not hard to prove they are violating the EULA, it's not hard to prove some of them are selling ISK (but then, some are for alliance capital fund gathering )
Just to name a few corporations that seem to be able to rat 23 hours a day.. within a few jumps of our HQ system:
X.I.X / Red Fire corp U-RA / UltimaRAT FND / Great Wildlands Resources
Seems to me like CCP are keeping these guys around for two reasons:
a) They buy GTCs to keep their accounts operational, that's income for CCP.
b) They sell ISK to players, CCP then puts these players into negative-ISK balance and to recover their account. More income for CCP.
So, anyone petitioned these macro/sweatshop operations and had a result from CCP? Ever? - modules_and_muntions spammer free trade channel! |
Alanee'a Unakarakta
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:18:00 -
[2]
the problem is that they are not using macros all the time, they are farming, and thats not bannable.
and to prove the use of bots is a tricky one, as they aren't modifying the gamecode. ------------------ - - - -_^
send me eve-related links, and make ISK'ies @
www.unakarakta.info
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Cvuos
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:22:00 -
[3]
Yeah, farmers don't use macros. Only way CCP can deal with it is staying on top of ISK transactions. I have no idea if they are actively hunting them down, one idea would be to simply buy isk off ebay and once you know the character that sent you isk in-game you could use the connection data to find the other characters. Will take about 30 minutes before they grow wise to it and then it's just cat and mouse. Apart from annoying 0.0 residents, is there any handle on what damage they actually do to the game? |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:32:00 -
[4]
You can't buy ISK on eBay.
Really, honestly there is none there.
Bots, useless guides, GTCs but no ISK.
Well done CCP for stamping out the problem of eBaying ISK.
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RaTTuS
BIG Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:41:00 -
[5]
check out the contracts if they look susupicious then petetion them to ccp -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
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Galack Fyar
The Imperial Remnant
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Posted - 2007.12.17 14:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Banana Torres You can't buy ISK on eBay.
Really, honestly there is none there.
Bots, useless guides, GTCs but no ISK.
Well done CCP for stamping out the problem of eBaying ISK.
Actually, people sell "guide to making isk fast" as a real item, but it says "Plus a free 100 million isk!" So they still do sell the stuff that way.
And to OP, CCP do ban them. Next thing you will be claiming that CCP are the isk farmers themselves.
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Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.17 14:49:00 -
[7]
There's way to little being done against farming and while this procrastination is going on, the inflation to the economy is staggering.
Why can you do missions in a shuttle? Why does a hauler cost 500k and the mission reward alone cover it? Shouldnt there be something actually valuable in the cargo, giving some sort of incentive to attack? Why isn't it punishable with corphopping to evade wars? Why is it so hard to probe out mission runners? Why do you decloak at the acc gate? Why do you decloak on jumpin on some cloud? Why is there a base insurance on ships of war? Why is there insurance at all?
Just by increasing hauling missions cargo value to something actually worth attacking, you make farming a lot harder in lowsec. Why hasn't this been done already? Combine this with lower rewards if you are in the npc corp and we are getting somewhere. Meep.
------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.17 14:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vito Parabellum There's way to little being done against farming and while this procrastination is going on, the inflation to the economy is staggering.
Why can you do missions in a shuttle? Why does a hauler cost 500k and the mission reward alone cover it? Shouldnt there be something actually valuable in the cargo, giving some sort of incentive to attack? Why isn't it punishable with corphopping to evade wars? Why is it so hard to probe out mission runners? Why do you decloak at the acc gate? Why do you decloak on jumpin on some cloud? Why is there a base insurance on ships of war? Why is there insurance at all?
Just by increasing hauling missions cargo value to something actually worth attacking, you make farming a lot harder in lowsec. Why hasn't this been done already? Combine this with lower rewards if you are in the npc corp and we are getting somewhere. Meep.
if there is inflation way can I buy 10 times the nox today as I could a year ago? that's deflationmy friend, my isk is worth more now.
Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 17/12/2007 15:27:01 I've petitioned someone once, who was ratting almost 23/7 in the same system, actually no matter when I checked that system, he was there. I'm not sure, what was going on, I think he was account sharing, which would also explain, why he was once able to understand english and answer with a sentence and the other day not really. At some point we've just left some cloaked alts afk in that system and ganked him a few times, after he went on with ratting. That forced him to relocate. Saw him elsewhere after that. That was all. Since then I mostly ignore them, because it's just too much effort, if the 'ratter' knows, what he is doing. Don't know, if petitioning leads anywhere tbh.
Have also petitioned barges once over 1 year ago, players with stupid names, all looked up from a computer manual perhaps, there were 5+ characters created within only a few minutes, same race/bloodline/newb corp. They were still there later, so hmm, probably farmers, who are close to a PC, so the GMs can't do anything.
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Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_2007Q3.pdf
...thus adding an average net number of 171 billion per day... ...Drawing from this information, it is apparent that total in the EVE universe is increasing, and is doing so faster than the population. From a monetary standpoint, a money supply that increases faster than total production indicates inflation...
------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:28:00 -
[11]
Im curious as to how you can 100% proove they are using macros and breaking the EULA.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MotherMoon if there is inflation way can I buy 10 times the nox today as I could a year ago? that's deflationmy friend, my isk is worth more now.
Recently there's been a lot of deflation due to the T2 market crash and the high-end mineral crash. However, there is still a fair amount of inflationary pressure, meaning that inflation will eventually overtake the deflation caused by those market crashes. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Strak Yogorn
Amarr Mind Warpers
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Strak Yogorn on 17/12/2007 15:35:01 must be the easiest thing in the world to check logs of ppl who are online 23/7, and ban them for account sharing.. One can only wonder why ccp arent doing it.
Of course normal ppl can take a long session once in a while, but certainly not every day over and over again ...
By not doing it, they somehow make it alright to account share in my opinion.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Strak Yogorn Edited by: Strak Yogorn on 17/12/2007 15:35:01 must be the easiest thing in the world to check logs of ppl who are online 23/7, and ban them for account sharing.. One can only wonder why ccp arent doing it.
Of course normal ppl can take a long session once in a while, but certainly not every day over and over again
Yes, but how can they prove it was account sharing? They could always just claim it was a parent and juvenile child, which is the only case where account sharing is legal (I believe). ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:15:00 -
[15]
Iskfarming is a problem in all mmorpgs, but there isnt so much any company can do to stop it. They must have proof, not just suspicion of macroing. And even if they have proof and ban the account, they will be back in minutes on a new account.
CCP is removing isk and/or banning people for iskselling/buying. But its a battle they can never really win as long as players keep buying isk. If you have to buy isk why not do it with the legal gtc trade?
If you really want to see how badly a company can handle isksellers go and look what "features" runescape is implementing to combat the isksellers. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
Snake Doctor
MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:29:00 -
[16]
<obligatory>
Death to isk farmers and macro users!!!
</obligatory>
I don't have enough people to help in the 0.0 regions, otherwise I'd say we'd come out there
Just keep petitioning them.
Join MacroIntel! |
Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:41:00 -
[17]
Just as i thought, no one can prove they are breaking the EULA, therefor they wont be getting banned anytime soon.
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alanee'a Unakarakta the problem is that they are not using macros all the time, they are farming, and thats not bannable.
and to prove the use of bots is a tricky one, as they aren't modifying the gamecode.
Account sharing is banable, isk selling is banable.
It has nothing to do with any of that. The farmbots make millions of dollars/euros/whatever currency each year for CCP. They want their money, they want them in the game. It is as simple as that.
The only way it will ever change is if real players start leaving due to the macros. They are causing all kinds of desyncs in low sec areas that would otherwise be free of lag. They are devaluing the currency, and they make is damn hard to tell who is in local/who is coming and going etc. They also scare away a lot of noobs that don't want to be in a low sec system with 30 people in it.
They are clearly hurting the game very badly, but until they are causing people to leave en masse, CCP will continue to enjoy profiting from them.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Account sharing is banable, isk selling is banable.
Yes but they still need proof.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with any of that. The farmbots make millions of dollars/euros/whatever currency each year for CCP. They want their money, they want them in the game. It is as simple as that.
Good job on the tinfoil hattery. They will make just as much money if not more if they ban macros whenever they can.
Quote:
The only way it will ever change is if real players start leaving due to the macros. They are causing all kinds of desyncs in low sec areas that would otherwise be free of lag. They are devaluing the currency, and they make is damn hard to tell who is in local/who is coming and going etc. They also scare away a lot of noobs that don't want to be in a low sec system with 30 people in it.
They are clearly hurting the game very badly, but until they are causing people to leave en masse, CCP will continue to enjoy profiting from them.
Lol. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
heheheh
Singularity. Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:57:00 -
[20]
CCP do not want ISK sellers in game, They cannot prove that the people are account sharing or using macros, Find a way to prove these matters 100% and i am sure CCP will use your proposed method.
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Awox
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: heheheh CCP do not want ISK sellers in game, They cannot prove that the people are account sharing or using macros, Find a way to prove these matters 100% and i am sure CCP will use your proposed method.
WTB whatever drug lets me sit infront of a computer for 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. ===== |
heheheh
Singularity. Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Awox
Originally by: heheheh CCP do not want ISK sellers in game, They cannot prove that the people are account sharing or using macros, Find a way to prove these matters 100% and i am sure CCP will use your proposed method.
WTB whatever drug lets me sit infront of a computer for 23 hours a day, 7 days a week.
no shipping to australia sry, anyway even if they are online 23/7 you still cant proove its not just one guy leaves his comp on.
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Jacquelin Ayalin
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:26:00 -
[23]
Just as spammers are a fact of an MMORPG, botters are as well.
Account sharing isnt bannable as far as I know. If it is, it shouldnt be. I pay for the account and who I let use it is my decision.
2 quick things.
A., the sheer volume of potential botters and the amount of research that would have to go into making absolute sure these people are botting and not just sharing the account (maybe husband and wifey that perhaps dont speak very good English) makes it virtually impossoble to nail every one of these accounts down.
B., There are many programs that run externally from EVE that will simulate pushing an auto-targetting hotkey every 5 seconds and then hotkeying the button for firing the weapons. With a little creativeness, Im sure I could create one. They've even got macro programs that look for a particular color to appear on a certain part of the screen and perform some action if that part of the screen has that color (so that you could potentially automatically fly over and loot your kill automatically as well). And all of this isnt detectable by CCP.
Im sure my character looks botted in fact...its the nature of EVE. It wasnt written in such a way that you have to do things differently. To mine an asteroid, I right click in the overview, approach, and within 12km, fire my M2. Wait 30 minutes, rinse and repeat. To kill something, I simply right click on it in the overview, approach, fire weapons, approach loot, loot, rinse and repeat. I mean, I think the only game easier to macro/bot for is Ultima Online...
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Awox
Originally by: heheheh CCP do not want ISK sellers in game, They cannot prove that the people are account sharing or using macros, Find a way to prove these matters 100% and i am sure CCP will use your proposed method.
WTB whatever drug lets me sit infront of a computer for 23 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Proof. That's still not proof, as much as I'd like it to be. What's to keep the guy to claiming it was his kid (which isn't illegal)? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:41:00 -
[25]
well "I've" never seen the OP do any thinking therefore he must never think!
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:48:00 -
[26]
Sir William,
We will never know the true answer as actions taking by CCP, or it's representatives, can not be discussed on the forums.
If you know and can prove what corps are doing the macroing - train up the skill "Fast Talk" load up a ship with everything you need to take out the macro. You can call it movable target practice.
The reason why you are learning "Fast Talk" is because you will take a slight security hit but that skill will help you rebuild it quicker. ________________________
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Snake Jankins
Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin Just as spammers are a fact of an MMORPG, botters are as well.
Account sharing isnt bannable as far as I know. If it is, it shouldnt be. I pay for the account and who I let use it is my decision.
2 quick things.
A., the sheer volume of potential botters and the amount of research that would have to go into making absolute sure these people are botting and not just sharing the account (maybe husband and wifey that perhaps dont speak very good English) makes it virtually impossoble to nail every one of these accounts down.
B., There are many programs that run externally from EVE that will simulate pushing an auto-targetting hotkey every 5 seconds and then hotkeying the button for firing the weapons. With a little creativeness, Im sure I could create one. They've even got macro programs that look for a particular color to appear on a certain part of the screen and perform some action if that part of the screen has that color (so that you could potentially automatically fly over and loot your kill automatically as well). And all of this isnt detectable by CCP.
Im sure my character looks botted in fact...its the nature of EVE. It wasnt written in such a way that you have to do things differently. To mine an asteroid, I right click in the overview, approach, and within 12km, fire my M2. Wait 30 minutes, rinse and repeat. To kill something, I simply right click on it in the overview, approach, fire weapons, approach loot, loot, rinse and repeat. I mean, I think the only game easier to macro/bot for is Ultima Online...
If I had written an online game with lots of scripters, I think I'd include a punkbuster-like software in my games. Who doesn't like that his system gets checked for such things, doesn't need to play after all. Ok, there is always risk for false alarms, which might require some manual investigation, like if this is a known driver that has hokked into a system or something, that shouldn't be there. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.17 18:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Strak Yogorn Edited by: Strak Yogorn on 17/12/2007 15:35:01 must be the easiest thing in the world to check logs of ppl who are online 23/7, and ban them for account sharing.. One can only wonder why ccp arent doing it.
Of course normal ppl can take a long session once in a while, but certainly not every day over and over again
Yes, but how can they prove it was account sharing? They could always just claim it was a parent and juvenile child, which is the only case where account sharing is legal (I believe).
More simple, they can say "I like to let my computer on as I download during the night, so I leave EVE on, as I tend to have trouble sleeping I then go and play at odd hours and don't like to lose time logging in".
I know several people that leave the computer on 24/7 for weeks or months.
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Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.17 22:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: JamnOne Sir William,
We will never know the true answer as actions taking by CCP, or it's representatives, can not be discussed on the forums.
If you know and can prove what corps are doing the macroing - train up the skill "Fast Talk" load up a ship with everything you need to take out the macro. You can call it movable target practice.
The reason why you are learning "Fast Talk" is because you will take a slight security hit but that skill will help you rebuild it quicker.
Mr One, losing sec hurts me more than losing a lousy, cheaparsed hauler does to them, and even if they did lose as much as I did, they have the funds and accounts to totally laff in my face while my sec plummets to -10 for no particular reason.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Strak Yogorn Edited by: Strak Yogorn on 17/12/2007 15:35:01 must be the easiest thing in the world to check logs of ppl who are online 23/7, and ban them for account sharing.. One can only wonder why ccp arent doing it.
Of course normal ppl can take a long session once in a while, but certainly not every day over and over again
Yes, but how can they prove it was account sharing? They could always just claim it was a parent and juvenile child, which is the only case where account sharing is legal (I believe).
More simple, they can say "I like to let my computer on as I download during the night, so I leave EVE on, as I tend to have trouble sleeping I then go and play at odd hours and don't like to lose time logging in".
I know several people that leave the computer on 24/7 for weeks or months.
Do they also run missions 23 hours per day 7 days a week? No? Being logged in and IDLING is not the same as being logged in and MINING. Dig it, baby.
------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.17 23:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: sheis
This isnt a court of law yes its possible someone has a brain defect that allows them to game 23/7 but i think its safe to assume they are either account sharing or running a bot of some sort. REASONABLE suspicion if someone gets banned and you can explain in a rational manner why you were online those periods of times ban will be rescinded.
In that case, why won't every farmer just claim that their two children use their account while he's at work? Since they're juveniles and he's their legal guardian they can access it without violating the EULA. ---------------- Tarminic - 30 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.76.2 |
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