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Frigate vs Cruiser piracy

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Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2007.12.17 14:46:00 - [1] Even if I can fly Cruisers with my char, I have decided to stay pirating with my small rifter. I can manage most frig vs frig encouters with ease, but I'm starting to actively hunt for cruisers, and I've had some degree of success, and a lot more degree of failure I fly mostly on gallente region so I encounter gallente cruisers mostly. What would be the correct approach to engage such targets? Bearing in mind that small T2 AC can't hit beyond webber range, I usually stay orbiting at 15 km with my 20Km scrambler on. This way I try to dispatch drones first, if any... but can hit only with one light missile launcher. If I want to kill the cruiser I must close to webber range and if target carriers a webber, I'm dead. Webber is not uncommon for PVE ratting ships I would like to have some advice on how to engage a bigger target Thanks
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:01:00 - [2] Webs owns frigs end of story. Pick targets without a web :P Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:21:00 - [3] Thoraxes and Vexors probably are the most dangerous cruiser to attack, especially for a frigate. That is if they're stup for pvp. ------ Act quickly, think slowly.
Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:50:00 - [4] Why not switch to artillery? They have poor tracking but bearing in mind that I want to engage cruisers... I would prefer to do more pvp in frigate before to try cruisers, but it seems that I need to switch to cruisers anyway if I want to engage bigger ships
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:57:00 - [5] Unless you have some decent skills I'm not quite sure arties give the DPS needed to down a cruiser (unless it's a really crappy one). But tbh, I have no experience at all with arties (yet). ------ Act quickly, think slowly.
Motokko	Posted - 2007.12.17 16:31:00 - [6] Providing you can web them back and they're not packing a MWD then its still possible to get under medium guns whilst webbed if you keep your AB going. If they have MWD and web though you're screwed, only way to stay under guns is to double web which isn't usualy doable solo in a frig.
MirrorGod Heretic Army The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.17 16:37:00 - [7] rifter is nice and all, but stabberbond ftw
Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2007.12.17 21:48:00 - [8] Originally by: MirrorGod rifter is nice and all, but stabberbond ftw AFAIK, stabberbond shines when used with T2 AC, so I must wait
DredPirateRoberts Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.17 21:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Tzar'rim Thoraxes and Vexors probably are the most dangerous cruiser to attack, especially for a frigate. That is if they're setup for pvp. yeah, i think every t-rax pvp setup has a MWD and a webber, both not gonna end well for a frigate from what I've seen Carpe Noctem
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Tech	Posted - 2007.12.17 22:33:00 - [10] So, how much does it gimp your setup to have a ship scanner, to check them for a web?

deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.12.17 23:55:00 - [11] Originally by: DredPirateRoberts Originally by: Tzar'rim Thoraxes and Vexors probably are the most dangerous cruiser to attack, especially for a frigate. That is if they're setup for pvp. yeah, i think every t-rax pvp setup has a MWD and a webber, both not gonna end well for a frigate from what I've seen you aint seen nothin (points to sig) And by the way, I rule you. ---------------------- Jerk + 122k skillpoints + Determination = Rifter of DoomÖ
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:12:00 - [12] BTW the Rifter of Doom, most people don't point out that he clearly had a buddy (or two) in larger ships than him. Still fun to watch. Ship scanner isn't viable on a solo Rifter. Arty's will help you in this situation. If you are trying to stay out of blaster range, and small AC's really can't do that well against medium blasters, you'll need Artillery. T2 Arty should be about 5 seconds away if you already have T2 AC's. Pack a close range high dammage ammo, and you'll still be sitting at a comfortable range outside of the web. Drones shouldn't be an issue with small arty either. Should be easy enough to burst MWD and pop the drones, as small Arty tracks well enough even at close ranges. DPS shouldn't be the biggest issue, unless they are packing a very good tank, in which case, even AC's wouldn't take them down. So no loss there. In most situations I've run in, targets in belts in low sec are either bait or horribly fitted. Caracal with a single miner I and offline wcs's comes to mind from the other night. If they are set up to fight at all (even low sec rats can hurt some) then you will be hard pressed to even put a dent in them. In which case, you are pretty much forced to upgrade to a cruiser yourself. It is possible, but like I mentioned, if they even have half a clue, cruiser > frigate. A Rupture can be in and looting wreckage before most people know what hit them, while a Stabber has more of an opportunity to get away if things go bad. Stabber still has to fight within web range, unless you fit small arty's, while a Rupture makes a decent arty boat, as well as a great AC boat. Kudos to you for waiting to extract the full potential from a ship before jumping head first into the*****pit. Speaks bounds about you son. www.the-bastards.com
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Tzar'rim Unless you have some decent skills I'm not quite sure arties give the DPS needed to down a cruiser (unless it's a really crappy one). Doesn't that go without saying? No well set-up cruiser is going to die to a lone frig. Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:55:00 - [14] Originally by: VB Sarge BTW the Rifter of Doom, most people don't point out that he clearly had a buddy (or two) in larger ships than him. Still fun to watch. Unless I'm forgetting anything, the only ship larger than my rifter to make an appearance died horribly at the hands of a neutron thorax complete with mwd and web. And i killed it with a t1 fit rifter. Earlier in the flick is another webbing thorax kill, solo rifter. There are near a dozen solo vexor kills in my inbox as well. The only other ships to accompany my lil pwnmobile is another rifter, with equally low skillpoints, and a punisher came in to support us once after we'd been engaged for 7 minutes or so already (previous to that cyclone kill our 2 rifters killed another cyclone and celestis together at once two belts down the list) Success against webbing cruisers relies on closing range immediately, and manually piloting under their guns. Even if you're webbed, they cant track a damn thing if you're 100m away moving at 25m/s, your concern at this point becomes keeping range supershort, and killing drones which would be a tad more difficult (gotta keep your target webbed lest he open range and track you) were it not for the rifters tracking bonus, making drone-smacking pretty easy without web. Of course you're still walking a razor's edge, and will probably die the majority of the time. But hey, it's only a rifter. And by the way, I rule you. ---------------------- Jerk + 122k skillpoints + Determination = Rifter of DoomÖ
Avaricia The Accursed	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:57:00 - [15] Originally by: VB Sarge Stabber still has to fight within web range, unless you fit small arty's dear god no griefmatic - wolf & stabber piracy
Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2007.12.18 08:22:00 - [16] I would try to manually fly very close to my targets to see if I can evade fire.. For me its important to be confident with frig piracy before to change to cruiser sized piracy. Thanks to all
Big Zulu Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.18 08:46:00 - [17] Get a thrasher and fill it with 280mm II's and gyrostabs _________ I has bree..
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:30:00 - [18] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/12/2007 11:33:05 Originally by: Jaro Brutus Why not switch to artillery? They have poor tracking but bearing in mind that I want to engage cruisers... I would prefer to do more pvp in frigate before to try cruisers, but it seems that I need to switch to cruisers anyway if I want to engage bigger ships Artillery can't track drones and does horrible DPS. What a guy said - when webbed, counter web and get really really close to try to keep radial velocity as high as possible. Good cruiser/BC pilots will still kill you if you're solo, but there's not much you can do about this. I've kept a D180mm AC Hurricane tackled for about 3-4 minutes once and got him to 2/3 armour before he figured out what to do, at which point I died in a horrible fashion. Rifters!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Avaricia Originally by: VB Sarge Stabber still has to fight within web range, unless you fit small arty's dear god no Which is why I typically kill Stabbers with my Rifter. Webrange fighting in a Stabber is suicide. Barrage M exists for a reason. Rifters!
Ka Jolo The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:48:00 - [20] I frequently take out cruisers with my Incursus, including Stabbers, Caracals, Thoraxes, and Vexors. Any of those cruiser classes can pwn even a well-fit Incursus; but the typical cruiser ratting in lowsec with T1 drones out is also typically an exception. That is, when I find a cruiser on an asteroid belt, the pilot is usually unskilled and inexperienced. The get-in-close-under-their-guns-fast strategy (I set my default orbit for 500m) is sound. When I do take damage (it is amazing how many times I kill a cruiser without ever taking a single hit--remember, unskilled and inexperienced), I frequently see a pattern wherein they get me into armor while I'm still MWD'ing in on my initial approach, before I'm even in blaster range, and then I kill them while still in armor. And then there are the times, of course, when I get killed--even an unskilled cruiser pilot who keeps his cool, or an inexperienced pilot with good skills/fitting, can kill a highly-skilled, experienced frigate. But it all balances out with a healthy profit for the predatory frigate pilot. Your Money or Your Life!

Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:21:00 - [21] Thanks for all the info :) I would try those strategies. I really believe that lots of t1 cruisers that your encounter on low sec belts are inexperienced/bad/fitted/pve fitted, but sadly webbers are common on thoose ships as they work great for stopping npc's. I want to try AB'ing while orbiting very close.. I'll need to change my 20Km scram for a 7.5 one so I my cap can last longer o7
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:53:00 - [22] Originally by: deathforge Originally by: VB Sarge BTW the Rifter of Doom, most people don't point out that he clearly had a buddy (or two) in larger ships than him. Still fun to watch. Unless I'm forgetting anything, the only ship larger than my rifter to make an appearance died horribly at the hands of a neutron thorax complete with mwd and web. And i killed it with a t1 fit rifter. Earlier in the flick is another webbing thorax kill, solo rifter. There are near a dozen solo vexor kills in my inbox as well. The only other ships to accompany my lil pwnmobile is another rifter, with equally low skillpoints, and a punisher came in to support us once after we'd been engaged for 7 minutes or so already (previous to that cyclone kill our 2 rifters killed another cyclone and celestis together at once two belts down the list) Success against webbing cruisers relies on closing range immediately, and manually piloting under their guns. Even if you're webbed, they cant track a damn thing if you're 100m away moving at 25m/s, your concern at this point becomes keeping range supershort, and killing drones which would be a tad more difficult (gotta keep your target webbed lest he open range and track you) were it not for the rifters tracking bonus, making drone-smacking pretty easy without web. Of course you're still walking a razor's edge, and will probably die the majority of the time. But hey, it's only a rifter. I do think that video is awesome man, and Ive seen it before. Taking out cruisers with a character of that age is very impressive and you sure do seem to know how to handle a ship. However the first thorax is obviously a noob since it takes him from about 15% shields to structure before he activates his web. The 2nd thorax in that video has no drones left when you enter the belt and is clearly using a T1 web. yes a good setup frigate can take out a badly setup cruiser under the right circumstances. But giving the OP hints that he has a good chance in a frig vs a cruiser with a web in anything more then in a few cases is not fair in my opinion. I'm not saying you can't pirate in a frig - you can, there are plenty of badly setup cruisers in low sec. But if your target has a web AND drones it will likely kill you unless you run away. And about the ship scanning you don't have to. What ratter fits a scram? So simply warp out if you the battle aren't in your favor. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Daanika	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:03:00 - [23] I seem to recall giving you some cruiser love out in the belts Jaro :P The arty route is likely best for cruisers, webbed=dead as everyone keeps posting... even in a wolf or jag with their nice resists a web usually means pop for me. Sure, as someone said your DPS with arties might be too little, but at least you're out at 15k and have a good chance to run if it's not going anywhere. Regarding drone boats, um-- GL. Ultimately though, whichever ship you're in you've got to pick your targets well, and be comfortable either a) losing your ship, or b) waiting for the next target.
Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Daanika I seem to recall giving you some cruiser love out in the belts Jaro :P o/ I still remember your T2 med dones They turned my frig in dead meat very very fast :) That day I was testing how well the rifter behaved against biggest targets. You were part of the test, and managed to give me a good lesson I would like to test some more, after all rifters are cheap as well as small T2 Guns. It's not a matter of how many frigs I loose but how many lessons I learn before jumping to cruisers gf
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Cpt Branko Artillery can't track drones and does horrible DPS. Artillery is awesome against drones. Just pulse your mwd, drones start to mwd to follow you and if you are fast enough stop having much transversal. Not much transversal, huge sig from mwd : instapop. I killed many drones in an arty Claw. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Kessiaan	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Daanika I seem to recall giving you some cruiser love out in the belts Jaro :P The arty route is likely best for cruisers, webbed=dead as everyone keeps posting... even in a wolf or jag with their nice resists a web usually means pop for me. Sure, as someone said your DPS with arties might be too little, but at least you're out at 15k and have a good chance to run if it's not going anywhere. Regarding drone boats, um-- GL. Ultimately though, whichever ship you're in you've got to pick your targets well, and be comfortable either a) losing your ship, or b) waiting for the next target. This is I would suggest for fitting frig. vs cruiser. DPS is lower with arties but at 15kms out you should still have enough transversal to avoid medium guns. Some cruisers, particularly in highsec belts frequented by people looking for trouble, specifically fit anti-frig. If you web each other, and close in to get under their medium guns, you'll be in for a nasty surprise when you find yourself in the optimals of their small guns. At 15kms out you'll be completely out of range of an anti-frig fit cruiser's guns and with an AB or MWD they won't be able to close the distance to get a web on you. Their missiles and drones can still hurt a lot though, so be careful. ----- My in Eve Profile
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:57:00 - [27] Edited by: deathforge on 18/12/2007 23:57:33 Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 18/12/2007 15:23:14 Originally by: deathforge Originally by: VB Sarge BTW the Rifter of Doom, most people don't point out that he clearly had a buddy (or two) in larger ships than him. Still fun to watch. Unless I'm forgetting anything, the only ship larger than my rifter to make an appearance died horribly at the hands of a neutron thorax complete with mwd and web. And i killed it with a t1 fit rifter. Earlier in the flick is another webbing thorax kill, solo rifter. There are near a dozen solo vexor kills in my inbox as well. The only other ships to accompany my lil pwnmobile is another rifter, with equally low skillpoints, and a punisher came in to support us once after we'd been engaged for 7 minutes or so already (previous to that cyclone kill our 2 rifters killed another cyclone and celestis together at once two belts down the list) Success against webbing cruisers relies on closing range immediately, and manually piloting under their guns. Even if you're webbed, they cant track a damn thing if you're 100m away moving at 25m/s, your concern at this point becomes keeping range supershort, and killing drones which would be a tad more difficult (gotta keep your target webbed lest he open range and track you) were it not for the rifters tracking bonus, making drone-smacking pretty easy without web. Of course you're still walking a razor's edge, and will probably die the majority of the time. But hey, it's only a rifter. I do think that video is awesome man, and Ive seen it before. Taking out cruisers with a character of that age is very impressive and you sure do seem to know how to handle a ship. However the first thorax is obviously a noob since it takes him from about 15% shields to structure before he activates his web. The 2nd thorax in that video has no drones left when you enter the belt and is clearly using a T1 web. yes a good setup frigate can take out a badly setup cruiser under the right circumstances. But giving the OP hints that he has a good chance in a frig vs a cruiser with a web in anything more then in a few cases is not fair in my opinion. I'm not saying you can't pirate in a frig - you can, there are plenty of badly setup cruisers in low sec. But if your target has a web AND drones it will likely kill you unless you run away. And about the ship scanning, you don't have to. What ratter fits a scram? So simply warp out if the battle isnt't in your favor. In this context, what I said is very valid. Reason being, carebears are stupid. We're talking about belt piracy, i.e. blowing up stupid people and not even bothering to scoop their substandard loot. And by the way, I rule you. ---------------------- Jerk + 122k skillpoints + Determination = Rifter of DoomÖ
Ranger802004 Caldari Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:21:00 - [28] radial velocity doesn't help when webbed if you're being shot by missiles


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