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The Bear08 The Scope Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2012.02.05 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote I often pop onto eve-kill and browse the interesting kills and battle reports etc. Now, I know that Crucible was accompanied by a buff to Hybrid platforms, Blasters/Rails and most recently T2 ammo but there is still not a single Gallente hull in the Top 20. See: Top 20 Pre-crucible this didn't suprise me but I did expect things to change. Of course there are a number of factors that could be contributing to this. These include: Not enough time has passed yet, and the major alliances are still using traditional tactics and ships. Players are skilled into Minnie/Caldari/Amarr and subsequently have continued to use hulls from these races. I've not played eve much recently so I'm merely speculating from statistics (and am wary of doing this!). Those that are PVP'ing, what do you think?
Aestivalis Saidrian SplitPush Mercantiles 25	Posted - 2012.02.05 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote A lot of Minmatar and Caldari ships are used for ratting/Wormholes/etc. I do know that major alliances use Hurricane and Drake swarms as a fleet doctrine. Others use Amarr for their battleship lines, etc. Only thing that seperates a laser/artillery user from a hybrid user is the lack of Hybrid Guns trained. That being said, Gallente are monsters for small-scale warfare.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 139	Posted - 2012.02.05 19:12:00 - [3] - Quote Amazingly (gasp) everyone did not immediately dump their ships and move to Gallente? As you said in your OP, it was a "hybrid" buff. Yes some Gallente hulls were buffed as well. It will take time I imagine for people to change. Standards like the drake and cane are likely to remain popular. And looking at your stats, hybrid weapons comprise 4 of the top 20 weapon slots. Maybe not on Gallente hulls, but they are hybrid weapons.
Humidor Cigarillo 8	Posted - 2012.02.05 19:28:00 - [4] - Quote Hybrids are getting better, even though medium rails are still wtfawful. At this point I don't think there is any arguing gallente has the least viable ships for pvp anymore, that honor goes to the caldari who essentially live and breath on the over-poweredness of two ships and a racial ewar, all of which have been discussed about as being nerfed by CCP and the CSM.
Alara IonStorm 1535	Posted - 2012.02.05 19:30:00 - [5] - Quote Most of the Ships you see on that list are Blob Ships. Drake Maelstrom Tengu Artillery Cane Whelp Nado Abbadon RailRokh Naga Zealot Oracle Hound Manticore The List is calculated by shoot a ship get on the killmail earn a point on the list. One ship killed by 40 Whelp Tornado's = +40 Nado Kills while the same 1 Ship Killed by 2 Talos = +2 Talos Kills. Missiles, Projectiles and Laser have much more range and are preferred for gangs above a certain size because no matter where they are in relation to the primary they are much more likely to put DPS on it remotely as soon as it is called. So while it is common to see Talos and Brutix Roaming around and Megathrons running DPS for small Camps the fleet ships get so much more recognition on the list. Even Ships like the Vega and Cynabal see them selves in good sized wolf packs hunting do to avoidance and range while ships like the Scimitar and Rapier run around with big fleets and small gangs. As long as Armor vs Shields is boinked for small gang warfare (Talos, Cane and Brutix are flown Shield more then their designed Armor) you will see this list steadily nuzzled in the area of Shield Range with some Armor Scorch in the Bigger Ships and Sig Tankers. The good news is Gallente are good for small gang warfare now.
To mare Advanced Technology 16	Posted - 2012.02.06 07:35:00 - [6] - Quote there are some ship like the drake or hurricanes or alpha BS that get used in big gangs where everyone use the same ship (boring) and ofc those ships rack alot more kill in your list ships like the gallente ones are better suited for small warfare so smaller fleets less targets less kills. that doesnt mean they are bad they are just suited for a different role that get a smaller amount of kills but a much much bigger amount of fun. the main problem i see is that for the people that only watch KB stats the big fleet warfare is much more isk efficent that small gang warfare and so they just keep using the same old ships, make me sad to know that some people consider more important in eve the isk efficency of their KB rather than the fun of playing the game.
CausticS0da Viziam Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2012.02.06 10:19:00 - [7] - Quote To mare wrote: there are some ship like the drake or hurricanes or alpha BS that get used in big gangs where everyone use the same ship (boring) and ofc those ships rack alot more kill in your list ships like the gallente ones are better suited for small warfare so smaller fleets less targets less kills. that doesnt mean they are bad they are just suited for a different role that get a smaller amount of kills but a much much bigger amount of fun. the main problem i see is that for the people that only watch KB stats the big fleet warfare is much more isk efficent that small gang warfare and so they just keep using the same old ships, make me sad to know that some people consider more important in eve the isk efficency of their KB rather than the fun of playing the game. It might have something to do with holding/taking space and moons rather than just kill board efficiency. It's about crushing your opponents and unified fleet doctrines achieve this. I get your point but you've overemphasized it. If you want small gang pvp then by all means put together a fleet using diverse ships. Gallante ships are viable for this type of pvp as you say. Why should all ships be equal across all uses? We can all fly all races of ships anyway.
Uppsy Daisy 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2012.02.06 10:29:00 - [8] - Quote Alara IonStorm wrote: The List is calculated by shoot a ship get on the killmail earn a point on the list. One ship killed by 40 Whelp Tornado's = +40 Nado Kills while the same 1 Ship Killed by 2 Talos = +2 Talos Kills. An excellent point. I have never understood why someone has not come up with a killboard that does decimal kills i.e. if you were one of 40 shooting at something you get 1/40 of a kill, not 1 kill. It would at least make these ridiculous 'I've get 98% efficiency' claims look more truthful.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 92	Posted - 2012.02.06 10:42:00 - [9] - Quote Uppsy Daisy wrote: Alara IonStorm wrote: The List is calculated by shoot a ship get on the killmail earn a point on the list. One ship killed by 40 Whelp Tornado's = +40 Nado Kills while the same 1 Ship Killed by 2 Talos = +2 Talos Kills. An excellent point. I have never understood why someone has not come up with a killboard that does decimal kills i.e. if you were one of 40 shooting at something you get 1/40 of a kill, not 1 kill. It would at least make these ridiculous 'I've get 98% efficiency' claims look more truthful. Lol Yup, 32 ships managed to get on my poor Dramiel km this weekend. I was.impressed.
Alara IonStorm 1538	Posted - 2012.02.06 10:57:00 - [10] - Quote Onictus wrote: Lol Yup, 32 ships managed to get on my poor Dramiel km this weekend. I was.impressed. He wasn't kidding...

Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 287	Posted - 2012.02.06 11:25:00 - [11] - Quote To mare wrote: the main problem i see is that for the people that only watch KB stats the big fleet warfare is much more isk efficent that small gang warfare and so they just keep using the same old ships, make me sad to know that some people consider more important in eve the isk efficency of their KB rather than the fun of playing the game. It's clearly not "isk efficiency" when half of nullsec is flying around massed Tengu fleets that still die to a relative handful of stealth bombers. Also: it's really, really unfun to lose fights you should of won because the guys on your side show up flying bullshit (yes, I'm looking at you mr. myrm in the drake gang).
Noisrevbus 77	Posted - 2012.02.06 12:26:00 - [12] - Quote Uppsy Daisy wrote: Alara IonStorm wrote: The List is calculated by shoot a ship get on the killmail earn a point on the list. One ship killed by 40 Whelp Tornado's = +40 Nado Kills while the same 1 Ship Killed by 2 Talos = +2 Talos Kills. An excellent point. I have never understood why someone has not come up with a killboard that does decimal kills i.e. if you were one of 40 shooting at something you get 1/40 of a kill, not 1 kill. It would at least make these ridiculous 'I've get 98% efficiency' claims look more truthful. First off, they have. Why do you think all top killers on sites like BC are solo-farming other frigates with frigates of their own? It's the best return per difficulty and effort in their point-system. No system is perfect, of course. Secondly, killboards (and the top20 list) are statistics, nothing more and nothing less - there is no one singular "god stat". Most people who interprete statistics do it in different ways (a 98% kp eff is quite impressive if you maintain it in a smaller group, generally fighting undermanned and using expensive ships while yielding steady a amount of kills). Without an interpretive background like that the percentages say nothing and regardless of your percentages the background itself says more alone when you size someone up for recruitment or whatever). Even if you try to combine some sort of average most people on these forums are not going to agree with the choices or understand how to interprete them anyway. At least not the value you attribute to each stat in the collective average.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 800	Posted - 2012.02.06 12:58:00 - [13] - Quote The Bear08 wrote: I often pop onto eve-kill and browse the interesting kills and battle reports etc. Now, I know that Crucible was accompanied by a buff to Hybrid platforms, Blasters/Rails and most recently T2 ammo but there is still not a single Gallente hull in the Top 20. Let me comment this part of the post: hybrids rebalance is not done, all it's done is some fittings boost, ammo boost (T2 short range could use some more) with made small blasters and rails completely overpowered in raw numbers knowing those were already fine before these changes and all that was needed was some ships bonus tweaks, CCP as usual didn't listen or read correctly what we wrote (I admit I'm not English native and so some might not understand me, it's ok but I still don't speak Danish) Top20: actually major wars/conflicts alliances have fleet doctrines some will be Drakes everywhere, others abbadons pulse others abbadons arty others abbadons+drakes others all maelstroms or all Tengus others drakes/canes/maestroms etc etc. So you'll not see that much other thing but the real problem there is not the choice made by those alliances but the why they did it: cost vs effectiveness And in that single point while amarr has some good ships that can fit in and do the job Gallente has nothing but lachesis, arazus, nemesis. At another level, the capital one, you'll see Nyx/thanatos everywhere, erebus are a MUST have. But at sub capital level, except for ceptors/assault frigs now that they got really boosted gallente has nothing to offer (yet) Quote: Pre-crucible this didn't suprise me but I did expect things to change. Of course there are a number of factors that could be contributing to this. These include: Not enough time has passed yet, and the major alliances are still using traditional tactics and ships. Players are skilled into Minnie/Caldari/Amarr and subsequently have continued to use hulls from these races. I've not played eve much recently so I'm merely speculating from statistics (and am wary of doing this!). Those that are PVP'ing, what do you think? You'd be surprised to see how many of those null sec pilots are mainly gallente trained. Last time I've checked in some 150 BC fleet over 50% had at least gallente BS4 and at least med blasters/rails T2 and still use those skills but only for rating, eventually some gang pvp but all admit with less success than other races. C'mon have you tried to engage some gang of frigs with thoraxes/brutixes/myrmidons? -a properly fitted autos cane will never miss those and will 2 shot them at worst and at 20km at least, a 720cane will pop one every 8seconds, a Drake will stand still and kill them one by one if they don't have support. And what are you supposed to do with your gallente stuff? shoot frigs that can hit you from far distances than your blasters can hit/track or your rails can track? -on the same record in this particular case amarr might have same issues but I don't know that much about amarr yet These are not whines but situations I see everyday but doesn't mean you can't succeed. You'll figure out the good Gallente pilots are all older pilots with perfect support skills (fittings/gunnery/navigation) and mainly fly in small gangs or the "hit'n run" tactic witch means you've chosen specific targets and nothing else because you know you will die. Of course some are real good pilots no doubt about that but Gallente is still and obviously not young pilots friendly, not average skilled pilot friendly and not friendly at all under 30/35M sp (not all perfect training from the begining but the regular player that learned with time) Now lets see: Tengu with decent support skills: 45D = lvl4's and pvp if you have your own tech moon Drake with decent skills about 45D = lvl 4's and pvp Hurricane with decent skills about 45D = lvl4's and pvp Myrmidon with decent skills is almost double training time the above ones (yeah drones are awesome if you have t2's) Brutix: forget last room lvl3 Angels extravaganza unless you have perfect skills in everything and pimped fit, same for Myrm.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 800	Posted - 2012.02.06 13:07:00 - [14] - Quote grr dble post
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.02.06 13:21:00 - [15] - Quote How is Scimitar, a logistics ship, at No.8 out of 20? Watch PVP videos, post links to your PVP videos on the EVEwiki! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Player_videos
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 93	Posted - 2012.02.06 14:23:00 - [16] - Quote Darthewok wrote: How is Scimitar, a logistics ship, at No.8 out of 20? Whoring in fleet fights, if you notice 3/4 of the top twenty are shield ships. Since people only use basi's (occasionally) with Rokhs and in incursions, they aren't going to be well represented.
Ventro69 Manson Family Corcoran State 68	Posted - 2012.02.06 14:36:00 - [17] - Quote Fit a Lachesis with a Photon Scat. / point and scram, heavy launchers and whatever size medium rails you have PG for. (Almost) tanks like a Drake, awesome tackle. Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
Roosterton Syndicalis Immortalis 311	Posted - 2012.02.06 16:00:00 - [18] - Quote Quote: http://www.manson-family.com/index.php/kill_detail/191904/ A nanodrake... with more speed... kiting at 40km... This almost makes me want to train Gallente cruiser V.
Ventro69 Manson Family Corcoran State 68	Posted - 2012.02.06 17:52:00 - [19] - Quote Roosterton wrote: Quote: http://www.manson-family.com/index.php/kill_detail/191904/ A nanodrake... with more speed... kiting at 40km... This almost makes me want to train Gallente cruiser V. Do it!!! Then send me ISKies Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
Alua Oresson The Dominion of Light BLACK-MARK 65	Posted - 2012.02.06 19:05:00 - [20] - Quote Ventro69 wrote: Roosterton wrote: Quote: http://www.manson-family.com/index.php/kill_detail/191904/ A nanodrake... with more speed... kiting at 40km... This almost makes me want to train Gallente cruiser V. Do it!!! Then send me ISKies Fit same ship with a faction disruptor and full fleet bonuses and you can hit almost 100k with heat for your disruptor...



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