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TrevorReznik Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:09:00 - [1] One of the most important events to occur recently is the decision by MC to reset standings and claim Period Basis. Yet one issue seems unresolved. What was the actual contract between MC and BoB? Apparently only the higher ups have seen it, and on other forums there's lots of bickering between people who haven't seen it and those who have. So I plead with those who have actual knowledge, publish the Contract's details for all to see. Only by that method may potential employers of MC understand what they may or may not have agreed to. And remember, even if the Contract states that its terms must be secret, MC has broken the Contract already, so this request should not be denied. Very truly yours, Trevor Reznik
Narciss Sevar Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:10:00 - [2] /signed
Moon Kitten GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:11:00 - [3] As a space lawyer I would like to say /signed.
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:13:00 - [4] This is indeed a very valid and reasonable request.
Traumatica GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:14:00 - [5] Someone will be along shortly to file a FOIA request. THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW.
Shredded GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:14:00 - [6] I would love to see this. /signed
Yussef Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:14:00 - [7] Such a contract could provide fascinating discussions on caod for YEARS to come! /SIGNED!!!
Pnuka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:15:00 - [8] /signed
Zell Shadowcast The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:15:00 - [9] I too would like to see the terms of the contract that was mentioned in the original post. I think that sharing that contract would give all those involved a better sense of scope and reality regarding the current events, and allow some people to have more learned opinions on the matter. It is the right thing to do.
LASER WATCHER GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:17:00 - [10] ooh, i want to see this too. its a valuable part of eve history, and we can preserve it where people can view it wherever _____
Tevlent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:17:00 - [11] /signed
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:18:00 - [12] /signed
EightBitSama GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:20:00 - [13] /signed
Icy Z Superstars from Outer Space	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:30:00 - [14] Hi Mittans! Would tha reel mittans please stand up! Please stand up! Me does not care about no contract. Contracts r for da lawyas. Forget da contract, buy me dancas!
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:32:00 - [15] I would like to see this contract, just out of curiosity ofc
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Gneeznow I would like to see this contract, just out of curiosity ofc I was there, and I ain't tellin neener neener -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Orebuster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:34:00 - [17] Trevor makes an excellent point (as always, hi5 Trev). With the cancellation of the contract, that must void any confidentiality agreement. Additionally, I would suggest that the ability to view said contract template would make it easier for interested parties to hire MC.
SpaceHonorNinjabot9000 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:34:00 - [18] I have trained Advanced Litigation V and can help with any disputes.
Icy Z Superstars from Outer Space	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Gneeznow I would like to see this contract, just out of curiosity ofc U a lawya? Lawyas lub contracts! Every1 else lubs me dancas!
Elizabeth Fallbrook GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:35:00 - [20] This is important stuff, MC. After all, we'd like to know if your organization is reputable enough for our aims and goals. We'd like to know for sure that you guys are truly up to snuff just in case we have to... you know... hire you against The Sphere Confederation or something.
Shayleigh Snowflower DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Icy Z Hi Mittans! Would tha reel mittans please stand up! Please stand up! Me does not care about no contract. Contracts r for da lawyas. Forget da contract, buy me dancas! Troll spotted. Don't **** up the bellowed COAD forums. We have talked about this issue on TS over the last days, and we have had people see if they can get hold of this agreement. The nature of the BOB/MC agreement are vital to the planning of the hollyday-offensive for more than 1000 PVP hungry EVE-accounts. There have been lots of tinfoiling that MC did a backstab, but we need to verify this, because it seems to us that BOB did the stabbing by missleading an honest alliance just trying to make some isk in a cruel and unsafe situation. However, if it turns out that MC did infact not have a contract with BOB. That they are just disgrunted renters like Rise and DR and D-L and so on...
DrSeuss Gallente Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Elizabeth Fallbrook This is important stuff, MC. After all, we'd like to know if your organization is reputable enough for our aims and goals. Goons seeking facts??? I thought you were all propaganda based ? . Everyone knows the only true wisdom is on T-Shirts
SunglassesInSpace GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:42:00 - [23] I think it's pretty important that the rest of eve gets to see the so called contract (if it exists at all!) so we can make our own minds up.
Elizabeth Fallbrook GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:43:00 - [24] Originally by: DrSeuss Originally by: Elizabeth Fallbrook This is important stuff, MC. After all, we'd like to know if your organization is reputable enough for our aims and goals. Goons seeking facts??? I thought you were all propaganda based ? Propaganda? psh. when have we ever done that, except for that one time?
Kar Strike GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:46:00 - [25] Postin' in a TrevorReznik thread.
Shardiss JCI Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:47:00 - [26] Interesting request, and a pretty valid one, too. Either (1) BoB had a contract with MC calling for defense of BoB space (or at least, neutrality); or (2) It didn't. If it's (1), then MC have indeed proved themselves to be unreliable contracting parties, and all current and potential future business partners should take this into account. If it's (2), then BoB's complaints about MC "backstabbing" are just the petulant whines of adolescent emo queens. Inquiring minds want to know.
SpaceHonorNinjabot9000 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:47:00 - [27] YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
Icy Z Superstars from Outer Space	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Shayleigh Snowflower Originally by: Icy Z Hi Mittans! Would tha reel mittans please stand up! Please stand up! Me does not care about no contract. Contracts r for da lawyas. Forget da contract, buy me dancas! Troll spotted. Don't **** up the bellowed COAD forums.
Traumatica GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 17:55:00 - [29] If Seleene and Molle were to have a legally binding contract between the two entities then this obvious and grievous breach of contract would allow for a civil suit against the land thieves and tortfeasors.
DaiTengu Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 18:07:00 - [30] I agree, the only way to fully understand where MC is coming from is to see the contract.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.12.18 18:09:00 - [31] I must admit a desire to see the contract as well, but I understand that I have no RIGHT to see such a document. I understand that the long duration of employment by Bob gave MC special privledges. I understand MC's desire for a secure location to build Capitals. Since Bob rented space to many, I could see an agreement where they rented the space they have under a longer-term lease than most renters do. I've always felt that when MC took that rental agreement they ceased to be true Mercs. From Bob's perspective, it was dumb to allow a bunch of armed thugs to move into the house next door. Bob's mistake was that the frequent employment gave them the impression that they had an ally instead of a hired gun. So now MC announces that they wanna do a little homesteading on the land they were renting, and Bob don't have the might to stop them. If the contract is made public, future employers can judge if MC were trustworthy or just opportunistic. In my mind the only real questions are: Will others view MC's actions as true neutrality or will it taint their reputation? Will the forces arrayed against Bob respect MC's supposed neutrality or just push through MC anyway? Oh, and: How can I personally make billions of iskies off of this development?
Atama Cardel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 18:09:00 - [32] space-lawyers of the universe unite!
Yussef Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 18:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Princess Jodi I must admit a desire to see the contract as well, but I understand that I have no RIGHT to see such a document. I understand that the long duration of employment by Bob gave MC special privledges. I understand MC's desire for a secure location to build Capitals. Since Bob rented space to many, I could see an agreement where they rented the space they have under a longer-term lease than most renters do. I've always felt that when MC took that rental agreement they ceased to be true Mercs. Zebras are hawt. From Bob's perspective, it was dumb to allow a bunch of armed thugs to move into the house next door. Bob's mistake was that the frequent employment gave them the impression that they had an ally instead of a hired gun. So now MC announces that they wanna do a little homesteading on the land they were renting, and Bob don't have the might to stop them. If the contract is made public, future employers can judge if MC were trustworthy or just opportunistic. In my mind the only real questions are: Will others view MC's actions as true neutrality or will it taint their reputation? Will the forces arrayed against Bob respect MC's supposed neutrality or just push through MC anyway? Oh, and: How can I personally make billions of iskies off of this development? It's not about the "right" to see it. But both corps have to worry about the "publics" opinion and showing the terms of the contract may help in that end toward showing who acted in good faith.
SpaceHonorNinjabot9000 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:09:00 - [34] freedom of information act gives us the right to see the contract
Westly Synpa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Yussef Originally by: Princess Jodi I must admit a desire to see the contract as well, but I understand that I have no RIGHT to see such a document. I understand that the long duration of employment by Bob gave MC special privledges. I understand MC's desire for a secure location to build Capitals. Since Bob rented space to many, I could see an agreement where they rented the space they have under a longer-term lease than most renters do. I've always felt that when MC took that rental agreement they ceased to be true Mercs. Zebras are hawt. From Bob's perspective, it was dumb to allow a bunch of armed thugs to move into the house next door. Bob's mistake was that the frequent employment gave them the impression that they had an ally instead of a hired gun. So now MC announces that they wanna do a little homesteading on the land they were renting, and Bob don't have the might to stop them. If the contract is made public, future employers can judge if MC were trustworthy or just opportunistic. In my mind the only real questions are: Will others view MC's actions as true neutrality or will it taint their reputation? Will the forces arrayed against Bob respect MC's supposed neutrality or just push through MC anyway? Oh, and: How can I personally make billions of iskies off of this development? It's not about the "right" to see it. But both corps have to worry about the "publics" opinion and showing the terms of the contract may help in that end toward showing who acted in good faith. Also if they dont show this contract this may deter business ventures in the future because of the fact that they may have turned on a client simply because they didn't care for them anymore. If they are true mercs money is reason enough no?
Ar'tee DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Yussef It's not about the "right" to see it. But both corps have to worry about the "publics" opinion and showing the terms of the contract may help in that end toward showing who acted in good faith. So, seeing as how they apparently don't want to show the contract, probably what's in there would be even worse for their public image than not showing it is. Otherwise, I don't see why they wouldn't have posted it by now..if either party would have thought it'd help them, by this point I'm sure they would have..
Will Hunter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:48:00 - [37] the only person i would trust to post the truth about this regard would be tholarim
Traumatica GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Ar'tee Originally by: Yussef It's not about the "right" to see it. But both corps have to worry about the "publics" opinion and showing the terms of the contract may help in that end toward showing who acted in good faith. So, seeing as how they apparently don't want to show the contract, probably what's in there would be even worse for their public image than not showing it is. Otherwise, I don't see why they wouldn't have posted it by now..if either party would have thought it'd help them, by this point I'm sure they would have.. I bet the contract violated the league's salary cap and they'd probably be fined some draft picks if they were caught.
Cadence Redwood Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Gneeznow I would like to see this contract, just out of curiosity ofc I was there, and I ain't tellin neener neener This suggests that the contract was in fact NOT broken, and that MC violated no agreement with their recent actions.
avacado mayonaise	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:06:00 - [40] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=333076&page=7#186
L4NC3R Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:07:00 - [41] See now were all saying that MC is bad for breaking a contract. Would you all want to clear your name and show us what the fine print says? Maybe it's BoB's fault. Come on MC, show us how you all are actually the good guys.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:10:00 - [42] Originally by: DrSeuss Originally by: Elizabeth Fallbrook This is important stuff, MC. After all, we'd like to know if your organization is reputable enough for our aims and goals. Goons seeking facts??? I thought you were all propaganda based ? Goonfacts have more impact when they distort the proper Realfacts.
true enjoyment GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:11:00 - [43] On the topic of contracts I have always believed that EVE requires a more secure contracting system. Without personal property and law and order presiding over transactions then it is very hard to contract! consider real life contracts. if I am a water company and you are a man and we have a contract wherein I provide you with 100L of water for some monies, then this is a contract. If one of us breaks this contract the person who is hurt can claim damages to make himself whole! We need this mechanism in EVE. This way we can have advanced techniques like short-selling and long-term relationships where mining companies provide minerals to producers for some set rate and if they decide not to do it, then CONCORD can step in and empty their wallets! but to make BOB whole after the MC VIOLATION of the contract would take more than concord! It would take a real life judge probably haha!
UBERSOLDAT Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:12:00 - [44] Originally by: Traumatica Originally by: Ar'tee Originally by: Yussef It's not about the "right" to see it. But both corps have to worry about the "publics" opinion and showing the terms of the contract may help in that end toward showing who acted in good faith. So, seeing as how they apparently don't want to show the contract, probably what's in there would be even worse for their public image than not showing it is. Otherwise, I don't see why they wouldn't have posted it by now..if either party would have thought it'd help them, by this point I'm sure they would have.. I bet the contract violated the league's salary cap and they'd probably be fined some draft picks if they were caught.
von Goethe Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:17:00 - [45] Oh my now who would trust MC and take a contract with them?
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:18:00 - [46] Originally by: TrevorReznik One of the most important events to occur recently is the decision by MC to reset standings and claim Period Basis. Yet one issue seems unresolved. What was the actual contract between MC and BoB? Apparently only the higher ups have seen it, and on other forums there's lots of bickering between people who haven't seen it and those who have. So I plead with those who have actual knowledge, publish the Contract's details for all to see. Only by that method may potential employers of MC understand what they may or may not have agreed to. And remember, even if the Contract states that its terms must be secret, MC has broken the Contract already, so this request should not be denied. Very truly yours, Trevor Reznik Indeed it is very difficult for those outside of MC and BoB to fully understand the level of anger because we simply do not know what the terms of their previous contract were. One side seems to view it as a simple contract that could be terminated at any point and the other as an indefinite contract that was binding in every sense. We can not sympathize with one side or the other until we know the exact nature of the arrangement.
L4NC3R Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:20:00 - [47] Originally by: true enjoyment On the topic of contracts I have always believed that EVE requires a more secure contracting system. Without personal property and law and order presiding over transactions then it is very hard to contract! consider real life contracts. if I am a water company and you are a man and we have a contract wherein I provide you with 100L of water for some monies, then this is a contract. If one of us breaks this contract the person who is hurt can claim damages to make himself whole! We need this mechanism in EVE. This way we can have advanced techniques like short-selling and long-term relationships where mining companies provide minerals to producers for some set rate and if they decide not to do it, then CONCORD can step in and empty their wallets! but to make BOB whole after the MC VIOLATION of the contract would take more than concord! It would take a real life judge probably haha! But if you have a contract system like this, then it would defeat the whole purpose of backstabbing. Say if your a mining corp and you are selling minerals to a production corp for a set amount. If the prices were to go up due to some release of a patch and you still have to sell for a low price, then it would hurt you. But then on the otherside, if prices go down, then the production corp would not like it cuz it costs more to produce ships. And if one of these happens and concord steps in, then the mining corp would be hurt for CCP's fault. I think contracts should stay within Alliance leaders and not provided to CCP. But in this case, contract broken, let us see.
true enjoyment GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:27:00 - [48] I think it is feasible that either MC/BOB/GOONS could be the law. tortfeasors could come and state their case in writing and we or they could enforce the rule of law. that way there would be no more backstabbing (like in real life you would go to the judge if you were stabbed in the back and ask for compensation)
Traumatica GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:29:00 - [49] If this was in empire Rens 911 could arbitrate.
Lsf XXi Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:33:00 - [50] Postin' in a ****ty MRCHI thread.
true enjoyment GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:35:00 - [51] what about in 0.0 where the real money is made (mining higher quality ores)
Rosemary Robot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:45:00 - [52] The legal theory of "efficient breach," states that one party may breach a contract if that party will suffer a greater economic loss by performing under the contract than by breaching it. In the immortal words of Judge Richard Posner, "Suppose I sign a contract to deliver 100,000 custom-ground widgets at $.10 apiece to A, for use in his boiler factory. After I have delivered 10,000, B comes to me, explains that he desperately needs 25,000 custom-ground widgets at once since otherwise he will be forced to close his pianola factory at great cost, and offers me $.15 apiece for 25,000 widgets. I sell him the widgets and as a result do not complete timely delivery to A, who sustains $1000 in damages from my breach. Having obtained an additional profit of $1250 on the sale to B, I am better off even after reimbursing A for his loss. Society is also better off. Since B was willing to pay me $.15 per widget, it must mean that each widget was worth at least $.15 to him. But it was worth only $.14 to A -- $.10, what he paid, plus $.04 ($1000 divided by 25,000), his expected profit. Thus the breach resulted in a transfer of the 26,000 widgets from a lower valued to a higher valued use." The first statement of the theory of efficient breach appears to have been made in a law review article by Robert Birmingham in "Breach of Contract, Damage Measures, and Economic Efficiency, 24 Rutgers L.Rev. 273, 284 (1970) (ôRepudiation of obligations should be encouraged where the promisor is able to profit from his default after placing his promisee in as good a position as he would have occupied had performance been renderedö). The theory was named by Charles Goetz and Robert Scott, Liquidated Damages, Penalties, and the Just Compensation Principle: A Theory of Efficient Breach, 77 Colum.L.Rev. 554 (1977). Efficient Breach Theory is associated with Richard Posner and the Law and Economics school of thought. It has been used to defend the traditional common law rule that a non-tortious breach of contract cannot be remedied by punitive damages and penal damages (unreasonably excessive liquidated damages that are seen as a punishment for breach rather than a remedy). Such penalties would discourage efficient breach (therefore discouraging efficient behavior) and possibly put companies at increased risk of bankruptcy, which would be very bad for society. Posner explains his views in his majority opinion in Lake River Corp. v. Carborundum Co., 769 F.2d 1284 (7th Cir. 1985). I suspect that the BoB-MC contract may be a groundbreaking development of the theory of efficient breach in the EVE-Online universe. The people have a right to know!
Val Streth Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:47:00 - [53] I feel this would be acceptable. /signed
true enjoyment GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Rosemary Robot The legal theory of "efficient breach," states that one party may breach a contract if that party will suffer a greater economic loss by performing under the contract than by breaching it. In the immortal words of Judge Richard Posner, "Suppose I sign a contract to deliver 100,000 custom-ground widgets at $.10 apiece to A, for use in his boiler factory. After I have delivered 10,000, B comes to me, explains that he desperately needs 25,000 custom-ground widgets at once since otherwise he will be forced to close his pianola factory at great cost, and offers me $.15 apiece for 25,000 widgets. I sell him the widgets and as a result do not complete timely delivery to A, who sustains $1000 in damages from my breach. Having obtained an additional profit of $1250 on the sale to B, I am better off even after reimbursing A for his loss. Society is also better off. Since B was willing to pay me $.15 per widget, it must mean that each widget was worth at least $.15 to him. But it was worth only $.14 to A -- $.10, what he paid, plus $.04 ($1000 divided by 25,000), his expected profit. Thus the breach resulted in a transfer of the 26,000 widgets from a lower valued to a higher valued use." The first statement of the theory of efficient breach appears to have been made in a law review article by Robert Birmingham in "Breach of Contract, Damage Measures, and Economic Efficiency, 24 Rutgers L.Rev. 273, 284 (1970) (ôRepudiation of obligations should be encouraged where the promisor is able to profit from his default after placing his promisee in as good a position as he would have occupied had performance been renderedö). The theory was named by Charles Goetz and Robert Scott, Liquidated Damages, Penalties, and the Just Compensation Principle: A Theory of Efficient Breach, 77 Colum.L.Rev. 554 (1977). Efficient Breach Theory is associated with Richard Posner and the Law and Economics school of thought. It has been used to defend the traditional common law rule that a non-tortious breach of contract cannot be remedied by punitive damages and penal damages (unreasonably excessive liquidated damages that are seen as a punishment for breach rather than a remedy). Such penalties would discourage efficient breach (therefore discouraging efficient behavior) and possibly put companies at increased risk of bankruptcy, which would be very bad for society. Posner explains his views in his majority opinion in Lake River Corp. v. Carborundum Co., 769 F.2d 1284 (7th Cir. 1985). I suspect that the BoB-MC contract may be a groundbreaking development of the theory of efficient breach in the EVE-Online universe. The people have a right to know! I am familiar with the concept of efficient breach and contracting that's why i think it is so important in EVE (i have taken classes on law and economics actually!)
Vaustrien Caldari The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Rosemary Robot The legal theory of "efficient breach," states that one party may breach a contract if that party will suffer a greater economic loss by performing under the contract than by breaching it. In the immortal words of Judge Richard Posner, "Suppose I sign a contract to deliver 100,000 custom-ground widgets at $.10 apiece to A, for use in his boiler factory. After I have delivered 10,000, B comes to me, explains that he desperately needs 25,000 custom-ground widgets at once since otherwise he will be forced to close his pianola factory at great cost, and offers me $.15 apiece for 25,000 widgets. I sell him the widgets and as a result do not complete timely delivery to A, who sustains $1000 in damages from my breach. Having obtained an additional profit of $1250 on the sale to B, I am better off even after reimbursing A for his loss. Society is also better off. Since B was willing to pay me $.15 per widget, it must mean that each widget was worth at least $.15 to him. But it was worth only $.14 to A -- $.10, what he paid, plus $.04 ($1000 divided by 25,000), his expected profit. Thus the breach resulted in a transfer of the 26,000 widgets from a lower valued to a higher valued use." The first statement of the theory of efficient breach appears to have been made in a law review article by Robert Birmingham in "Breach of Contract, Damage Measures, and Economic Efficiency, 24 Rutgers L.Rev. 273, 284 (1970) (ôRepudiation of obligations should be encouraged where the promisor is able to profit from his default after placing his promisee in as good a position as he would have occupied had performance been renderedö). The theory was named by Charles Goetz and Robert Scott, Liquidated Damages, Penalties, and the Just Compensation Principle: A Theory of Efficient Breach, 77 Colum.L.Rev. 554 (1977). Efficient Breach Theory is associated with Richard Posner and the Law and Economics school of thought. It has been used to defend the traditional common law rule that a non-tortious breach of contract cannot be remedied by punitive damages and penal damages (unreasonably excessive liquidated damages that are seen as a punishment for breach rather than a remedy). Such penalties would discourage efficient breach (therefore discouraging efficient behavior) and possibly put companies at increased risk of bankruptcy, which would be very bad for society. Posner explains his views in his majority opinion in Lake River Corp. v. Carborundum Co., 769 F.2d 1284 (7th Cir. 1985). I suspect that the BoB-MC contract may be a groundbreaking development of the theory of efficient breach in the EVE-Online universe. The people have a right to know! Wonderful, a glorious refresher from my strenuous bar exam I shall be experiencing in July. You sir, make my day!
Suez Newton GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 22:21:00 - [56] Ya I want to know the real contract the people of Rise demand it.
Spellwielder Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:53:00 - [57] I only want to see it so I can giggle at the fact that there was (apparently) no term-limits or anything but rather it extended into FOREVER Which is a really dumb contract for either side to take, because one side would inevitably "break" the contract also can we start calling mynas a tort-feasor
Orion Moonstar Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:55:00 - [58] Posting in a Trevor thread. Also, I completely agree with you. If anything, they should have just added the 5th card and left standings alone.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:00:00 - [59] Any mercenary worth their salt wouldn't release contract details to third parties. However, I still want to know the juicy details.
Fryrr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Devian 666 Any mercenary worth their salt wouldn't release contract details to third parties. However, I still want to know the juicy details.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:07:00 - [61] Originally by: Fryrr Edited by: Fryrr on 19/12/2007 00:06:39 Originally by: Devian 666 Any mercenary worth their salt wouldn't release contract details to third parties. However, I still want to know the juicy details. All they need is plausable deniability Correct a leak is all that is needed.
Ravinus Claret Caldari Griffin Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:39:00 - [62] Edited by: Ravinus Claret on 19/12/2007 00:39:27 Thats weird. I clicked the link for coad....and ended up on the goons forums! I dont even remember applying!
Selene Lunaglaux Trit for the Trit Throne	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Ravinus Claret Edited by: Ravinus Claret on 19/12/2007 00:39:27 Thats weird. I clicked the link for coad....and ended up on the goons forums! I dont even remember applying! Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. :P
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:50:00 - [64] Originally by: Ravinus Claret Edited by: Ravinus Claret on 19/12/2007 00:39:27 Thats weird. I clicked the link for coad....and ended up on the goons forums! I dont even remember applying! Well if you do wish to apply I can sponsor one more member into Goonswarm, so feel free to contact me in game! - Orangir
Moon Kitten GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:51:00 - [65] Originally by: Ravinus Claret Edited by: Ravinus Claret on 19/12/2007 00:39:27 Thats weird. I clicked the link for coad....and ended up on the goons forums! I dont even remember applying! Welcome to CAOD and Happy Christmas.
Lsf XXi Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:51:00 - [66] I can sponsor 2. Just shoot me a pm on gf.com
Adrienne Sorbonne Gallente Silent Sisters of the Bloody Rose	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:08:00 - [67] I am confused who is mittens???
UneFraiseDansUneChaise GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:15:00 - [68] Edited by: UneFraiseDansUneChaise on 19/12/2007 02:15:37 I think the Period Basis invasion can be easily viewed in terms of a rationally self-interested Mercenary Coalition, i.e. the wealthy and ambitious bloc of industrialists, and the pet-heavy and socialistic Band of Brothers, i.e. the "looters and moochers" such as Dagny's brother James and Philip Rearden. The Mercenary Coalition are merely engineering a market correction that has dispossessed the GBC of wealth they lacked the Tlan and the drive to maintain. Given that A does in fact equal A, MC are in fact morally obligated to deprive the GBC of Period Basis and Delve. SirMolle, much like James Taggart, does not realize the ultimate end of his personal philosophy, which is nihilo qua nihilo rather than homo qua homo. Seleene's actions serve that end. Who is John Galt? Seleene, of the Mercenary Coalition.
Mimedar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:40:00 - [69] According to the principals of ipse dixit and quidquid latine dictum sit we do in fact have a right to see the original contract.
UneFraiseDansUneChaise GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:45:00 - [70] Addendum: While Mercenary Coalition may have broken the terms of a contract, they did so with foreknowledge, and indeed acceptance, of the consequences; namely that their actions would devalue their reputation as a good on the free market. There exists no contradiction with the rules of the EVE economy.
Jhyme Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:46:00 - [71] Trevor, You are only providing MC an opportunity to fabricate a contract that could potentially be misleading. Best regards, Jhyme
Pat McCrotch	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:47:00 - [72] Where is Kugutsmen (sp?) when you need him?
Ocular Shadows GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:49:00 - [73] I am curious though as to the explicit nature of the contract. I would love to hire out the MC on one of my alt corps to deal with some Empire pirates, but well I want to know how air tight the contract has to be to make sure they won't weasel me out of my empire billions.
Shazzak	Posted - 2007.12.19 04:25:00 - [74] This thread needs more pink
Zaisig Murakk Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 04:30:00 - [75] I, too, am curious as to the specifics of this contract.
Major Donkage Piss Bottle Junkies	Posted - 2007.12.19 04:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Ocular Shadows I am curious though as to the explicit nature of the contract. I would love to hire out the MC on one of my alt corps to deal with some Empire pirates, but well I want to know how air tight the contract has to be to make sure they won't weasel me out of my empire billions. im da alt corp in da quote hay guyz wuts happenen in dis thread? not vasili z dawg
Dead BoB GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 04:59:00 - [77] Originally by: Traumatica If Seleene and Molle were to have a legally binding contract... Wait. What was this contract? Was this some kind of civil union? Am I the only one who thinks this sounds dirty?
Tabouli GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 05:02:00 - [78] Is it not elementary physics that pens do not work in space? The subsequent graphite alternative is fleeting and hardly binding, why, even the Mercenary Coalition's extrications from their multiple contracts with IAC could be justified as an unfortunate misuse of an eraser.
Major Donkage Piss Bottle Junkies	Posted - 2007.12.19 05:02:00 - [79] Originally by: Dead BoB Originally by: Traumatica If Seleene and Molle were to have a legally binding contract... Wait. What was this contract? Was this some kind of civil union? Am I the only one who thinks this sounds dirty? only u dawg, u should see a doctor bout dat hay guyz wuts happenen in dis thread? not vasili z dawg
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.19 05:03:00 - [80] Originally by: Jhyme Trevor, You are only providing MC an opportunity to fabricate a contract that could potentially be misleading. Best regards, Jhyme MC would have people like me around to keep em honest. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Dead BoB GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 05:48:00 - [81] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Jhyme Trevor, You are only providing MC an opportunity to fabricate a contract that could potentially be misleading. Best regards, Jhyme MC would have people like me around to keep em honest. And just how would that work?
Major Donkage Piss Bottle Junkies	Posted - 2007.12.19 05:50:00 - [82] Originally by: Dead BoB Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Jhyme Trevor, You are only providing MC an opportunity to fabricate a contract that could potentially be misleading. Best regards, Jhyme MC would have people like me around to keep em honest. And just how would that work? kablammo hay guyz wuts happenen in dis thread? not vasili z dawg
Frostax The Knights of Arnia	Posted - 2007.12.19 11:19:00 - [83] Originally by: Dead BoB Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Jhyme Trevor, You are only providing MC an opportunity to fabricate a contract that could potentially be misleading. Best regards, Jhyme MC would have people like me around to keep em honest. And just how would that work? With BoB's reputation of honesty...
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.19 11:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Dafuzz I was there, and I ain't tellin neener neener Proof or STUF! Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction."
Dextro Cornu Caldari The KSN Xperience	Posted - 2007.12.19 12:17:00 - [85] NICE! Another Goon thread
Mio Amakura ZDK	Posted - 2007.12.19 13:00:00 - [86] how long can one be contracted for? and its only a matter of times before the hired guns get bored and do what they want cause they got big guns. P.S. Thanx goons for all adopting that bright pink mittens sig, make scrolling past your drivel so much easier : )
Riato Hargoumi byeee Corp Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.19 14:56:00 - [87] Why is it everyone is assuming it would have been MC who 'broke' the contract... Maybe BoB can't afford to pay them anymore... or choose not to... if the later is true, it reminds me of Verone's signiture.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.12.19 14:57:00 - [88] Goonie blob!!! Its hip deep in goonies and gettin deeper ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master Which is worse.. the Carebear or the pirate that whines about them?
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.19 15:19:00 - [89] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Goonie blob!!! Its hip deep in goonies and gettin deeper Its a passive-aggressive threadnaught.
OklahomaCity Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 16:00:00 - [90] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Illyria Ambri Goonie blob!!! Its hip deep in goonies and gettin deeper Its a passive-aggressive threadnaught. Looks like a very intellectually stimulating conversation about improving this game we all enjoy so much to me. Forgive my blunt comment friend, but I felt obligated to set these hurtful comments to rights.
Dahin Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.19 16:35:00 - [91] If you search the forums back at the days when MC first entered PB, you will find a screenie from the MC forums pretty much describing the deal Why fly covops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WOIwlXE9g
Adunaphell The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.12.19 17:41:00 - [92] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Gneeznow I would like to see this contract, just out of curiosity ofc I was there, and I ain't tellin neener neener meanie 8(
azura nester White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.19 17:59:00 - [93] would be interesting to see the contract that was made between BoB and MC. would be even more interesting if there was a breach in the contract.
DeadWeight Minmatar Botox Bandits	Posted - 2007.12.19 18:28:00 - [94] So if there was a breach of contract would MC need to hire a goon/space lawyer?
TroNaaR Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.19 19:17:00 - [95] Originally by: DeadWeight So if there was a breach of contract would MC need to hire a goon/space lawyer? I herd Leonard J. Crabs is pretty good. Well? Was there or was there not an admission of the contract? <3 Wherever you go... There you are...

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