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Vihravend
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Posted - 2007.12.19 16:33:00 -
[1]
I'm sure this has been brought up before.. Why are there no mid-sized cargo hauling ships? Something that can carry around 100km3?
It seems you either have an Iteron Mark V rigged up and with GSC's that can haul a whole jet can OR you have a Obelisk that can haul vast amounts of stuff.. but nothing in between..
That seems an odd gap.. ~30km3 or 750km3.. nothing in between! It's either light cargo, or heavy freighter!! heh
Why is this? I'm sure there is a reason but damned if I know what it is..
Now, before anyone brings up the jump freighter... I'm talking about a ship that doesn't require all the Secondary and Tertiary capital ship skill requirements.. An Obelisk (or any freighter) has modest skill requirements compared to a Rorqual.. The Rorqual strikes me has having a very different purpose than just casual movement of goods around..
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.12.19 19:43:00 -
[2]
Just so we're clear, you want something that hauls a lot more than an Iteron V, but has far lower skill requirements than an Obelisk? How wide do you think that skill gap is?
Crusades: Security Status |
Sonya Rayner
Unicorn Enterprise
Blind Octopus
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Posted - 2007.12.19 19:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sonya Rayner on 19/12/2007 19:58:44
 Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
Just so we're clear, you want something that hauls a lot more than an Iteron V, but has far lower skill requirements than an Obelisk? How wide do you think that skill gap is?
The problem is not in the gap skill-wise, but the gap cargo-size-wise. freighters are sooo painfully slow, and sometimes you need to haul 50-120k m¦ worth of crap. Also there is a huge gap between itty5 and obelisk cost-wise, freighter can cost up to 900 mil, while itty would cost you 15 mil maximum, fitted.
Maybe adding third class of transport ships would improve the situation. right now we have small, fast and maneuverable blockade runners, heavy well-tanked deep-space transporters. the third could be slow, bulky but fragile ship, like iteron mk5 with stripped module slots, somewhat decreased armor and shield compared to original, but with cargo space of about 75k m¦ base and 5% per industrial skill level? They could also have a limit on taking from jetcans since the jet duct could be removed to add more space too.
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couldn't resist... sorry... |
Vihravend
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Posted - 2007.12.19 20:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sonya Rayner
The problem is not in the gap skill-wise, but the gap cargo-size-wise. freighters are sooo painfully slow, and sometimes you need to haul 50-120k m¦ worth of crap. Also there is a huge gap between itty5 and obelisk cost-wise, freighter can cost up to 900 mil, while itty would cost you 15 mil maximum, fitted.
Exactly!
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2007.12.20 00:03:00 -
[5]
Jump freighters are more nimble and faster :)
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Remko Marr
Caldari
First And Only
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Posted - 2007.12.20 00:14:00 -
[6]
I totally agree with this.
Actually, there is already a (rather large and old) topic on this.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=234417&page=18
I'm not sure whether we should keep using this topic, or if it should just be merged in with the older one. I guess it's up to you.
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Viper G
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Posted - 2007.12.20 01:32:00 -
[7]
/signed.
Signature removed. Zero EvE content - Valorem |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2007.12.20 01:54:00 -
[8]
well.. after some time you get used to it..
The idea of a mini-frighter is around since when? 2 years now?
However.. get you some mates, pack your money together, buy a frighter and be done with it (5 peeps, everybody 200M+).. as I don't think CCP has a mini-freighter on their screen for the next 2 years to come 
It's a MMO btw. 
Nevertheless I would buy a mini-freighter.. just out of curiousity.. 
PS: with a 2nd peep, sling-shot your frighter after decloack at a gate its as fast as an afk-indu 
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.20 02:58:00 -
[9]
EVE is about challenges.
Many challenges are about limitations, and choices. This is one of them.
Either have a small and 'fast' hauler or a big and slow freighter.
A smooth transition would be convenient, sure. But is it necessary, and would it make the game better?
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- Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2007.12.20 07:21:00 -
[10]
There really does need to be a ship between industrial and freighter both in volume cap and isk cost. It took me 2 months of mining to aquire enough isk for a freighter, skills needed and insurance which was if I recall a 1.2 billion investment.
Currently an individual or small time corp can only choose between a decked out paper thin itty 5 or a steele plated, but completely defenseless freighter. Itty 5's when at full hauling potental cant haul anything beyond ore, minerals, ammo and small equipment, ships are completely out of the question for even most "small ones". However on the other hand a freighter can easyly fit about 90 cruisers comfortablly in its hold if the pilot has freighter trained to 4. The problem though is that the price gap is so huge that its rather hard to ask an individual or small corp to give up over a billion ISK just for a single cargo mover.
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Remko Marr
Caldari
First And Only
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Posted - 2007.12.20 17:25:00 -
[11]
A smaller "freighter" would absolutely make the game better. I'll use myself as an example here.
I'm sort of a rounded character, I can fly barges (but not exhumers) and the Caldari Badger MkII, and I can also fly up to Caldari Battleship (although I don't own one yet) and Minni BC. I occasionally will do a mining trip, and will end up with a good amount of ore/minerals. Most of the time I refine and use the minerals myself, but sometimes I just need money. I operate close by Jita, but a Badger MkII, even decked out, can't haul that much. It would take me quite a few trips to haul all my ore to Jita to get a premium price, and I can't do that. So I have to settle for a MUCH lower profit.
Now, let's say I have a minifreighter (about premium battleship cost or so). I can now haul my entire 150k m3 or so in one trip, make a better profit, and make my minerals much more widely available. Now think of this scenario, only on a small/medium corp scale. Instead of having to spend virtually ALL assets just for one freighter which is probably more than they really need anyway, they can buy a minifreighter which gets the job they need done, and takes a MUCH smaller chunk out of their wallet.
Here's another example. I'm something of a macro pirate, and if I find a group of macros wide open, I'm going to take the chance to annoy them. So let's say I take their ice. I'm a little short on cash, so hey, why don't I sell it? But wait, this system doesn't have any buy orders for ice, closest buy order is the next system over. But ice is big, and I have a lot of it. My indy just isn't going to get the job done. Now, insert a minifreighter. I can haul the ice in one or two trips.
Now THAT would be worth 150mil.
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.20 19:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: SentryRaven on 20/12/2007 19:35:16
[SHIP] Small Freighter
I tried to achieve just that almost 3 years ago, a thread going for 18 pages, with more than 30k hits. Well... guess.....
And the Jump Freighter is not filling the GAP between Iteron Mark V and the Freighter.
I would be happy to pay 300M ISK for a small freighter with ~150k m¦ and the same requiremtns as the normal freighters.
With best regards,
SentryRaven
KIA Noobship Pilot
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:47:00 -
[13]
Mmm... Carebear BS ? Heavy Industrial Ships ?
Say 100m a ship, 80k/120k with expanders, that would be nice.
2isk
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2007.12.28 04:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
EVE is about challenges.
Many challenges are about limitations, and choices. This is one of them.
Either have a small and 'fast' hauler or a big and slow freighter.
A smooth transition would be convenient, sure. But is it necessary, and would it make the game better?
True, but it is a very artificial feeling challenge. If EvE NPC corporations had the ability to respond to actual market demands in product design, this would probably be the first new line of ships off the docks.
That is one of the kinda distant feeling things about this game.. the NPC corporations and governments really feel like they are completely separate from players. Look at at how many threads would be quickly resolved via a referendum system on laws or a market economy on product design (as opposed to just manufacture). Hrm, maybe I should start a separate thread on those topics....
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Arcayan
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Posted - 2007.12.28 10:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
EVE is about challenges.
Many challenges are about limitations, and choices. This is one of them.
Either have a small and 'fast' hauler or a big and slow freighter.
A smooth transition would be convenient, sure. But is it necessary, and would it make the game better?
Many of the limitations in EVE are counter productive and therefore not realistic.
In a real world situation, a small freighter would exist purely because there is a market demand for it. The market and the manufacturers wouldn't care about unbalancing the "game".
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Vihravend
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Posted - 2007.12.28 14:48:00 -
[16]
Can we get a comment from CCP?
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Remko Marr
Caldari
First And Only
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:21:00 -
[17]
Pfft, good luck. SentryRaven's topic has been going for three years and not a peep from CCP so far.
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Vihravend
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:29:00 -
[18]
But why? I mean I'm sure there is a good reason for it.. and if its game balance as some suggest, then so be it.. just tell us!
Communicating with your users is the best way to keep them happy.. even if you tell them something they don't want to hear.. telling them is the right thing to do.
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Desh Craven
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Posted - 2007.12.28 19:21:00 -
[19]
I'm just a starting trader and flying around in my Badger II, but since i'm mostly neat and plan well ahead, i have been wondering why there is no mid-class freighter.
There quite bit difference between hauling < 10 000 cubic meters of cargo in an industrial or stepping up to roughly ~800 000 cubic meters. Around 80 000 - 120 000 cubic meter freighter would be fairly practical.
Just one poor traders 1 ISK
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 19:43:00 -
[20]
Mini freighter would be tiers 2 then ?
Or better, look at this.
Rearrange the freighter line like this :
Tier 1 : mini freighters
Tier 2 : actual freighters (most people who fly them have the skill at 2 anyway)
Tier 3 : jump freighters
I'd rather a ccp finishing their lines tier 1, 2, 3 than a ccp starting to put more unfinnished lines (Inties, BC, HAC's, Dictors, Logistics, all caps).
These times Eve is becoming "learn 1 month to enter this only ship".
2isk
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 19:45:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 28/12/2007 19:45:41
-edit- omg double post
2isk
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Vihravend
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Posted - 2007.12.28 23:14:00 -
[22]
Everyone really seems to want this.. yet we hear nothing. Throw us a bone ccp..
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Augeas
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Posted - 2007.12.28 23:47:00 -
[23]
What people want is not necessarily good for Eve.
I posted this in a thread about this subject recently:
Quote:
No, there shouldn't be midsize haulers. It sounds like a nice idea, however, easier bulk transport of materials has various negative effects:
It favours the development of a few big hubs (Jita, with associated lag and suiciding) over many more smaller hubs.
It favours the homogenisation of markets, reducing regional price variations (indirectly favouring the Jita effect).
It favours AFK hauling, since these sub-freighters would still have big buffer tanks.
Also, easier POS fuel transport favours POS spamming and the control of large regions of 0.0 by relatively few players, leading to the perception that 0.0 is too crowded and needs to be expanded, whilst at the same time the reality that most of 0.0 is empty - because those few players don't actually use most of the systems that they control.
Thinking more, I'm not sure that the introduction of Freighters themselves was such a good idea... and I speak as a Freighter pilot.
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Shinori
Minmatar
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.12.29 15:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
EVE is about challenges.
Many challenges are about limitations, and choices. This is one of them.
Either have a small and 'fast' hauler or a big and slow freighter.
A smooth transition would be convenient, sure. But is it necessary, and would it make the game better?
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OzDeaDMeaT
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Posted - 2008.01.04 02:40:00 -
[25]
*cough* Transport Ship* *cough*
I haul 45k in my Occator and thats with only t1 cargo rigs and using giant cargo containers. Im thinking it would be aouve 50k with t2 cargo rigs. With the introduction of Jump freighters aswell they carry about 300k worth of cargo.
If your looking for a ship that requires no skills and does a large amount of cargo then ur playing the wrong game.
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Filipa Gomez
Black Watch Legionnaires
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Posted - 2008.01.04 03:53:00 -
[26]
Theres almost around 60 diferent hauling ships in the game u want even more?
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Mianna Foreseer
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Posted - 2008.01.04 04:52:00 -
[27]
Yea any cargo ship that would drop in between basic haulers and freighters would be needed. Such ships would have logical demand in world of EVE. Like there are need for special salvager ships, Ore hauling ships (made to carry ore than general cargo), spesific prober ships (current t2 ones are honestly very bad) that can use all kind of probe launchers.
But thanks to development board we have spesial salvager ship types in Trinity. Marauders come to make all the old destroyer fitted salvager ships obsolete! Pretty cool huh? Battleship that are salvager ships!
So be affraid what you wish for.
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gordon861
Minmatar
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.01.04 09:22:00 -
[28]
They should have bought out a smaller freighter and made it a Teir 2 freighter. It could have been smaller than the existing one but quicker/stronger (better able to survive suicide ganks), they could then have based the jump freighter off it so you wouldn't need a 1 bil isk base ship to build it.
Originally by: CCP Arkanon
I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe. |
Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2008.01.14 17:44:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Why are there no mid-sized cargo hauling ships? Something that can carry around 100km3?
It's a psychological thing on the part of the devs. You know, bigger is better? Just take a look at the 0.0 policies.
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