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Defender Missile, what about defender turrents?

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Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 03:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Dasfry on 20/12/2007 03:51:44 Defender Missile, what about defender turrents? Hello, Currently the defence to missiles, are defender missiles. Which tend to benefit the caldari mostly in this respect. Why not create turrents that do the same thing for each race. Defender lasers, for amarr. Defender autocannons for Mimatar. Defender blasters for Gallente. Heres an example for a possible Amarr defender turrent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWV9M9aX8O4 Heres an example for a possible Mimatar defender turrent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6nm-6eCzM&feature=related Sorry I can't find a gauss cannon anti-missile system in existance yet. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Veritas Falx Dinochrome Brigade Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.20 04:39:00 - [2] Too bad no one uses Defender Missiles to begin with.
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:11:00 - [3] Originally by: Veritas Falx Too bad no one uses Defender Missiles to begin with. If they didn't have to be manually activated and reactivated every time missiles were fired they might be useful. Also if they could kill torps.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Veritas Falx Too bad no one uses Defender Missiles to begin with. Players do use them. However they could be seen more often if defender's had less limitations. For example they're currenlty limited to ships with missile turrents. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Dasfry on 20/12/2007 05:28:35 Originally by: Vitrael If they didn't have to be manually activated and reactivated every time missiles were fired they might be useful. Also if they could kill torps. I agree if they could be turned on and be left on it would be nice. As opposed to only able to turn them on when an incoming enemy missile is already in flight speeding toward your ship. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Veritas Falx Dinochrome Brigade Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:28:00 - [6] The thing is you are sacrificing a turret slot, which can be a large amount of damage depending on your slots, for a defense against another turret slot that may or may not work.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 05:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Dasfry on 20/12/2007 05:36:27 Originally by: Veritas Falx The thing is you are sacrificing a turret slot, which can be a large amount of damage depending on your slots, for a defense against another turret slot that may or may not work. Reguarding giving up a high slot, This is true, however if your goal is pure DPS to begin with then I doubt you'll be bothering with defenders, in fact you'll probably be giving up other things as well for DPS. However Lets assume your not focused on DPS instead your focused on deffense, in this case defenders. And you're letting your teamates be the DPS, and you the tank. Defenders would assit in cutting down some of the incoming damage. If defender turrents existed, a defender setup would not just be limited to majority caldari ships. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.12.20 06:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Dasfry Which tend to benefit the caldari mostly in this respect. On the contrary, this benefits the Caldari least, since we don't have missile slots to spare. We do lame enough damage with a full rack of proper launchers, we can't afford to gimp our gank to fit a near-useless countermeasure. I think the Prophecy is the only ship I've seen actually fit defenders in a PvP setup, and maybe a Megathron or two, because their spare high slot can fit a rocket launcher. If there were turret versions, you can bet I'd have a couple on my mission Raven to cut through Angel's spam. Crusades: Security Status
LiLChris06 Miami Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.12.20 06:28:00 - [9] BTW its turrets! not turrents Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Originally by: Dasfry Which tend to benefit the caldari mostly in this respect. On the contrary, this benefits the Caldari least, since we don't have missile slots to spare. We do lame enough damage with a full rack of proper launchers, we can't afford to gimp our gank to fit a near-useless countermeasure. I think the Prophecy is the only ship I've seen actually fit defenders in a PvP setup, and maybe a Megathron or two, because their spare high slot can fit a rocket launcher. If there were turret versions, you can bet I'd have a couple on my mission Raven to cut through Angel's spam. Agreed If they give turrets a way to defend against missiles. Then i would want a way missiles can defend against turrets. Then ppl would want a way turrets can defend turrets. Big chain reaction basically
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 08:24:00 - [10] Edited by: Dasfry on 20/12/2007 08:25:55 Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Originally by: Dasfry Which tend to benefit the caldari mostly in this respect. On the contrary, this benefits the Caldari least, since we don't have missile slots to spare. We do lame enough damage with a full rack of proper launchers, we can't afford to gimp our gank to fit a near-useless countermeasure. I think the Prophecy is the only ship I've seen actually fit defenders in a PvP setup, and maybe a Megathron or two, because their spare high slot can fit a rocket launcher. If there were turret versions, you can bet I'd have a couple on my mission Raven to cut through Angel's spam. Reggie, When I said "Which tend to benefit the caldari mostly in this respect." I'm refering to a deffensive setup only, You mention the prophecy and the megathorn, yes both have some missle turrents, but neither can load a full rack of launchers fitted with defenders. Take for example the kestrel, caracal, drake and raven. Each can be loaded with 4+ rocket launchers sporting defender missiles with possible 100km+ range's. Lets say you setup a full gang of mission runners and had the drake setup as the tank, loaded with 7 rocket launchers and maxed shields/resists he can get. He goes in first gets agro and the rest come in after. The first drake is not the DPS gun rather the tank, the rest of the team becomes the DPS. So again in a fully defensive setup the caldari have the defenders advantage here. The drake is able to cut down a chunk of the NPC damage . . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 08:32:00 - [11] Originally by: LiLChris06 BTW its turrets! not turrents thanks, corrected. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 09:04:00 - [12] Originally by: LiLChris06 Agreed If they give turrets a way to defend against missiles. Then i would want a way missiles can defend against turrets. Then ppl would want a way turrets can defend turrets. Big chain reaction basically What you said can be applied to pretty much most any type of addition to the game. Why add armor if they're just going to build bigger guns? Why add bigger guns if they'll just build stronger armor... Big chain reaction basically . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Konrad Wachsmann	Posted - 2007.12.20 09:36:00 - [13] Point defense would be nice, just make it balanced for all races all weapons with the exception of a smartbomb. Say it is effective 50% of the time per volley, basically make it a version of a flak cannon, it destroys any weaponsfire within a certain range. But I think it should be limited to only BCs and above. Basically this "flak cannon" makes a "shield" a set distance from the ship between it and its aggressor.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Dasfry Currently the defence to missiles, is worthless Furthermore, it works not only on caldari, but against all ships which happen to use missiles (khanid MK II, some minmatar ships). Rifters!
LiLChris06 Miami Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:40:00 - [15] Edited by: LiLChris06 on 20/12/2007 10:41:36 As of now missiles vs missiles is balanced. Either can use defenders to better support there tank but loose DPS Or not use defenders to better support there DPS at the cost of a better tank. Turrets stopping turrets is balanced as well. possible feature Same rules apply to what i said about missiles. Turrets stopping missiles is not balanced Missiles stopping turrets is not balanced
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Konrad Wachsmann Point defense would be nice, just make it balanced for all races all weapons with the exception of a smartbomb. Say it is effective 50% of the time per volley, basically make it a version of a flak cannon, it destroys any weaponsfire within a certain range. But I think it should be limited to only BCs and above. Basically this "flak cannon" makes a "shield" a set distance from the ship between it and its aggressor. Konrad, I started looking up point defence videos and i came up to this one, But I'm not sure how this system could fit into the eve story line. Metal storm system (1 million rounds per minute potential) . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Lamant	Posted - 2007.12.20 12:36:00 - [17] Unless you have a light sabre fitted on your ship, I have no idea how a turret stopping a turret would fit into any reality, nevermind a game. Turrets are guns. Guns can't be used in real life to stop other guns, just against those who are armed with them. On the other hand, defender missiles are basically flares to distract missiles, just like in real life where flares distract ground/air to air missiles in combat. Nothing I know of yet that's been built to defend against torpedos, only skill. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Launching of defender missiles can't be automated, unless you have some sort of automated defence system installed within your ship taking up another slot. My reasoning here is that each defender missile you fire is fired at an individual missile. Once that missile is destroyed, you have to fire manually again because the next missile is a new target. If defender missiles go automated, then I would say another slot would have to be used as an AI in order to balance the reality.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.20 12:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Lamant defender missiles are basically flares to distract missiles, just like in real life where flares distract ground/air to air missiles in combat.. sorry, Defender missiles are not flares. In eve defender missiles actually intercept and attack incoming missiles. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Lamant	Posted - 2007.12.20 15:18:00 - [19] Edited by: Lamant on 20/12/2007 15:19:36 Originally by: Dasfry Originally by: Lamant defender missiles are basically flares to distract missiles, just like in real life where flares distract ground/air to air missiles in combat.. sorry, Defender missiles are not flares. In eve defender missiles actually intercept and attack incoming missiles. Thanks for the ups. Can't see guns doing that against each other though. Also, each defender missile still has to be released upon a new missile, no? Once you destroy one missile, you need to defend against another. Much the same as when you destroy an NPC, you have to physically start firing upon a fresh targetted NPC. Therefore automation in this case , I think, would require a slot to be taken up for a defensive AI bot. I think that was my main point I was making.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.21 03:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Dasfry on 21/12/2007 03:03:39 Another ship that could use defenders would be the industrial ship. None that i'm aware of can use Missile launchers. Alhtough I'd see them as benfiting from Defender missiles the most. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.21 12:44:00 - [21] There's an old similar thread. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=495390 I like the idea though There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.22 04:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Thargat There's an old similar thread. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=495390 I like the idea though Thargat, interesting . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.22 07:39:00 - [23] unless a defender turret things comes in a much rather see the defender missiles totally removed from the game or altered in a manner that they are used for something else.. used correctly they are overpowered, used wrongly or in most situations they are useless. so if they fix their uselessness they would totally destroy missile users
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.23 00:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Buyerr unless a defender turret things comes in a much rather see the defender missiles totally removed from the game or altered in a manner that they are used for something else.. used correctly they are overpowered, used wrongly or in most situations they are useless. so if they fix their uselessness they would totally destroy missile users Buyerr, Do you really believe that defenders are overpowerd? . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Dasfry Originally by: Buyerr unless a defender turret things comes in a much rather see the defender missiles totally removed from the game or altered in a manner that they are used for something else.. used correctly they are overpowered, used wrongly or in most situations they are useless. so if they fix their uselessness they would totally destroy missile users Buyerr, Do you really believe that defenders are overpowerd? if they actually destroyed 1 missile per def, yer they would be, since turret users don't have a need for their launcher slots, but being able to use those extra launcher slots to remove 2 cruise missiles per slot used for this is just insane. (talking about long range combat here). so if they where just as effective in close range as they are now at 140km+- they would be more then overpowered
mill veters	Posted - 2007.12.24 15:54:00 - [26] Edited by: mill veters on 24/12/2007 15:56:36 it would certainly add to pvp, who has better skill in defender-(type) and just keep blasting away untill player, dies/warp out/out of ammo or surrenders. edit: each level will shoot down- level 1 15% of all weapon attacks agenst you, level 2 30% level 3 45% level 4 60% level 5 75% (25%) or they'ed be no point in even fireing at anyone)
joshmorris Ravenous Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Dasfry Edited by: Dasfry on 20/12/2007 08:36:46 Originally by: Veritas Falx The thing is you are sacrificing a turret slot, which can be a large amount of damage depending on your slots, for a defense against another turret slot that may or may not work. Reguarding giving up a high slot, This is true, however if your goal is pure DPS to begin with then I doubt you'll be bothering with defenders, in fact you'll probably be giving up other things as well for DPS. However Lets assume your not focused on DPS instead your focused on deffense, in this case defenders. And you're letting your teamates be the DPS, and you the tank. Defenders would assit in cutting down some of the incoming damage. If defender turrets existed, a defender setup would not just be limited to majority caldari ships. The thing is there are a few weapons that are only anti 1 type of weapons system eg; Tracking distruptors - useless vrs drone and missile ships Defenders - useless vrs drone and turret ships Smartbombs - Nearly useless (unless totally sb bs) against turret ships. People dont tend to use them items above because the chances are they will run into a ship with a different weapons system and then they have just wasted a high / medium slot. Tbh just train for a rook / falcon. They can disable a ship totally therefore what ever type of ship comes at u you reduce its damage to 0. You can even settup your rook / falcon to tank a little and but a few ballistic controls on so when drones come at u u can tank then pop them with precision heavy and / or rockets. My point is that nobody will use these things because they are only anti missiles. If you want to furfill that role you would be best in a caldari recon as they can take more enemy dps out of a fight than any other ship. Uber idea solves all !!
Shippon Shima	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:54:00 - [28] Defender missiles are broken atm. 1 - They only work vs missiles coming at your ship. You cannot protect gangmates with them. 2 - Defender missiles only target the FIRST missile coming at you. If you have 6 defender missile launchers activated and 3 torpedos incoming, the 6 defender missiles fired will all target the closest torpedo. If that torpedo is destroyed, the remaining 5 defenders are lost in space. 3 - Adding to #2, your launchers do not target the remaining 5 incoming missiles separately. They will only target the closest incoming missile per cycle. So having more than 1 defender missile firing is pointless. Note: NPC's for some reason CAN defend against multiple missiles. You can see it easy by battleship rats firing 2 defender missiles at once and intercepting 2 of the 5 missiles your caracal sent its way. But if the rat BS fires 2 torpedos at your caracal and you got all 5 launchers in the caracal shoot a defender, you can only intercept one incoming torpedo because the launchers will not target torpedo #2 until torpedo #1 is destroyed and that means you have to wait until torpedo #1 is destroyed and THEN fire the defender missile that will intercept torpedo #2. I think defender missiles are set as GUIDED missiles rather than FOF missiles. If CCP set defenders to FOF they would be able to intercept any incoming missiles .. be they coming at your ship or a friendly ship. and that would be a serious problem for caldari ... but then again, gallente can now have their drones blown up, amarr have insane capacitor requirements and the minmatar ships suffer from inherent uglyness and most use missiles as well as guns.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:34:00 - [29] Edited by: Dasfry on 26/12/2007 06:36:18 Originally by: Shippon Shima Defender missiles are broken atm. 2 - Defender missiles only target the FIRST missile coming at you. If you have 6 defender missile launchers activated and 3 torpedos incoming, the 6 defender missiles fired will all target the closest torpedo. If that torpedo is destroyed, the remaining 5 defenders are lost in space. 3 - Adding to #2, your launchers do not target the remaining 5 incoming missiles separately. They will only target the closest incoming missile per cycle. So having more than 1 defender missile firing is pointless. Note: NPC's for some reason CAN defend against multiple missiles. You can see it easy by battleship rats firing 2 defender missiles at once and intercepting 2 of the 5 missiles your caracal sent its way. But if the rat BS fires 2 torpedos at your caracal and you got all 5 launchers in the caracal shoot a defender, you can only intercept one incoming torpedo because the launchers will not target torpedo #2 until torpedo #1 is destroyed and that means you have to wait until torpedo #1 is destroyed and THEN fire the defender missile that will intercept torpedo #2. I noticed this effect early on, and a simple fix was to stagger your defender missile firing rate, as oppost to alpha strike. It solved the issue you stated here really nicely. Also another reason why I do not alpha strike with defenders, is that when they goto reload they all reload at once leaving you vulnerable. Were-as if you stager your firing rate they reload one at time while the rest are still firing, when the frist one is done reloading the next one reloads and so on, thus your always firing your defenders. If your using rocket launchers and defenders and your oppent is using cruise missiles you are usually able to take all the incoming missiles down, assume you are far enough to give you defenders ample time to take down the incoming missiles. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Lamant Can't see guns doing that against each other though. Nothing is impossible. Eve is suppose to take place Thousands of years into the future. Just consider the things that can be done today, that where never possible 1000 years ago . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation

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