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Ocular Shadows
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.20 20:31:00 -
[1]
While many corporations and alliances think they are/will be unaffected by the activities of Goonswarm and Bob, there are a few things you might not be considering.
As most 0.0 alliances know, there are many resources in 0.0 space. Everything from high end mining minerals to 10/10 complexes and faction spawns. None of these though have too much of an impact on the overall market, but give the harvesters of these a powerful pocketbook.
What is going to be felt though in the near future is a market that had a crash not to long ago. The Tech 2 market. The reaction chains that are required in the production of these items come from Moon Harvesting. Which are done by POS's. I think you might see where I'm going with this.
As Bob has been losing regions, these harvesting chains have been interrupted. Which means that supply is only going to go down for these materials. And since demand is not likely to go down as well, that means prices are going up. Which then leads to the final products also costing more.
Furthermore, BoB has quite a few Tech 2 production Blueprints. Without these chains, means that since they are harvesting less of these materials in excise of their needs. Couple this with them needing more ships/modules to deal with the multiple opponents arrayed against them. Well we have ourselves a formula that will have them putting even fewer moon materials on the market than the actual drop in their acquisition of these materials.
So the question then is, are there any other alliances out there that will be filling in and producing more T2 materials/equipment to cover this gap to prevent the otherwise inevitable rising costs of T2 production? Or are you just planning to stock up now while the price is right for the long winter ahead?
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.20 20:57:00 -
[2]
First of all, you're assuming that Bob sold those items instead of using them. If they sold them, then Yes, there will be less for sale and therefore prices will rise. But if they used them, as I suspect, then they'll just be weaker.
Second, just because Bob is not mining them does not mean that someone else isn't. I know that when our alliance gained terrirtory, the first thing I did is run around and scan all the new moons.
Third, you've had a chance to test your theory already. When Bob conquored ASCN was there a dip in production? Did prices spike? When MC was running rampant in the North did anything happen?
In short, I doubt there will be much affect at all unless the whole South remains in such turmoil that no one is able to Moon Mine. New Invention pressure will probably be a more important factor than Bob.
Ahhh....that felt nice... marginalizing the impact of anything that Bob does. Boy, they're going to have a hard time adjusting to not being important. 
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MATMULLER
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.20 20:59:00 -
[3]
Finally a decent post from goonswarm.
Hats of to you Ocular.
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Ocular Shadows
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.20 21:53:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Princess Jodi
First of all, you're assuming that Bob sold those items instead of using them. If they sold them, then Yes, there will be less for sale and therefore prices will rise. But if they used them, as I suspect, then they'll just be weaker.
Second, just because Bob is not mining them does not mean that someone else isn't. I know that when our alliance gained terrirtory, the first thing I did is run around and scan all the new moons.
Well of course, I assume they are using quite a bit of it themselves. Especially from my understanding that some of the corps are on the communistic model versus capitalistic. I would be crazy to not assume RSF and friends have not done the same as you and scanned out these moons.
The thing is though, there was a lot of space taken in a short amount of time. The question is how much was scanned. I know moon scanning can be a long and arduous task, because I have done a bit of it myself.
I also assume that most of their actual T2 production never hits the empire markets, similar to how things operate in other 0.0 markets. Instead the moon minerals themselves is what I could imagine getting exported out for profit.
Originally by: Princess Jodi
Third, you've had a chance to test your theory already. When Bob conquored ASCN was there a dip in production? Did prices spike? When MC was running rampant in the North did anything happen?
In short, I doubt there will be much affect at all unless the whole South remains in such turmoil that no one is able to Moon Mine. New Invention pressure will probably be a more important factor than Bob.
Ahhh....that felt nice... marginalizing the impact of anything that Bob does. Boy, they're going to have a hard time adjusting to not being important.
But you do bring up a good point on other similar events not affecting the markets to any noticeable degree. The question then becomes how large of a percentage of the exported minerals is from Bob, and if it's enough to have any affect on the market. Which I'm afraid not even Bob may know that answer.
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Director Stoned
Band of Developers
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Posted - 2007.12.20 21:55:00 -
[5]
BoB only represents 1.8% of the total eve population, yet they recieve 98.2% of the total COAD threads. Do you believe that when they are gone there will be a noticable drop in Goons posting drivel?
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Don ZOLA
Caldari
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.12.20 22:04:00 -
[6]
also since is not going on offensive for quite some time, they are just going more and more defensive. everyone and their grandpa grew a pair knowing their supercapitals posses are much much safer and thats why we have such big offer or motherships and slowly titans showing up. back in the days of BOB power there were rare ones who would go in such adventure.
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Eldwinn
Ero Guro
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.20 22:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Director Stoned
BoB only represents 1.8% of the total eve population, yet they recieve 98.2% of the total COAD threads. Do you believe that when they are gone there will be a noticable drop in Goons posting drivel?
Why don't you make another horrible thread about it?
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Seth Quantix
Domination.
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Posted - 2007.12.20 22:09:00 -
[8]
MORE LAIM GOON PROPOGANDA.
GOD I HATE THE LAIM GOONS!
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.20 22:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Seth Quantix
MORE LAIM GOON PROPOGANDA.
GOD I HATE THE LAIM GOONS!
*Lame
oh, and Caps Lock.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:42:00 -
[10]
There's been a massive hike in the prices of advanced materials over the last 6 months at least, credit that to the war or invention but yes something got more expensive lately.
BoB threatened advanced material monopoly, that in mind a price increase was due whichever way the war went.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
hammyhamm
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
Originally by: Seth Quantix
MORE LAIM GOON PROPOGANDA.
GOD I HATE THE LAIM GOONS!
*Lame
oh, and Caps Lock.
You just got trolled son
Good OP, you forgot to also mention that the large amounts of warfare also means that demand is going much, much higher, which will further inflate the price of T2 ships.
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Dafuzz
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.21 13:38:00 -
[12]
If you look over the history of Eve, this issue isn't without precedent.
For example, Zydrine prices hit the roof when GF hit Syndicate for the first time.
Something else indicated in the OP, just because we (BoB) have many tech 2 BPO's, doesn't mean our production is affected in the least. Our chains in delve may be affected, but that doesn't mean we haven't had alternative arrangements in place for a long time, and stockpiles that could keep us going for well, years, in most cases.
Perhaps what you feel is us hoarding to be self-sustaining, and crippling others?
Just food for thought.
--
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.. |
Ocular Shadows
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.21 13:41:00 -
[13]
Good point Hammy, as the fighting continues the demand won't go anywhere but up. Especially if areas other than the south keep fighting amongst themselves. And since Eve's player base seems to be only increasing. Well that means that if there is any shortage in supply, prices are going up.
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Thargat
Caldari
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.21 14:07:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Thargat on 21/12/2007 14:09:19
First of all.... nice to see a constructive GS post. Have you guys been recruiting SA members from Lunar Wars lately or something? (not that I'd know anything about SA or Lunar Wars for that matter  )
To the matter at hand.
The component prices would be rising by their own accord (due to increased T2 production as a result of invention).
The war in the south is huge, no denying that, but component production (and moon mining) does not only happen in the south. There are plenty of moons in north and in the drone-regions (areas wich are largely stable atm, I'm leaving DEK and other TRI infestations out of the equation, and most TRI folks don't even know how to moonmine anyhow).
So I don't think that rising component prices will play a major part in rising T2 product prices.
If anything is going to inflate T2 cost then my bet is on the rare minerals (wartime and mining don't mix).
sidenote: I don't know jack about economy nor production, all my chars combined don't reach 1mil SP in industry or sience. So don't take my word for it.. ;p
oh, and I call tinfoilhat on the "new friendly GS"
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Inosin
Caldari
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.21 14:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Inosin on 21/12/2007 14:27:34
I agree t2 prices go up in result of new Ships and fast increasing demand for T2 moon and component stuff of inventors..
Every week for example Ferrogel of more than 200 Pos is sold in Jita. If an ally go down this should not have a too heavy impact on the prices.
And of course if Bob losing space the new owner should and will cover all Dyspo and Prom moons with new Pos. One of these Moons give you abbout 4 Billion Isk per Month just for transporting the stuff to empire so who would let these moons unused..
For the reaction chains if the prices go up enough tehre are enough people who will do the chains but atm much of the reaction chains dont bring that much money. Its just the Moonmaterial prices that go up heavyly and teh reactionprices have to follow. Just a matter of support of Moonmins so dear goons just scan your moons and build harvest pos in your territory if you dont like actual T2 Component prices :)
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x racer
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.21 15:33:00 -
[16]
Macro Econ 101, eve style:
T2 building component supply chains are the least of BoB's worries, economically. More importantly, they have lost considerable income from the Pets/Renters. Even if they have massive stockpiles of T2 mods/mins/components they will be forced to sell them off to pay the bills and buy stuff they want and can no longer manufacture themselves.
The selloff of BoB (and Pets) resource stockpiles will more than offset any impact of disrupted min/mod/component supply chains to the greater eve community.
The easiest way to keep tabs on an alliances "economic suffering" is to read killboards. BoB's killmails used to show tons of officer and faction fitted ships. Now its kinda uncommon to see a fully tweaked out killmail from BoB. I hope BoB keeps on fighting till all they can form up is a T1 frigate fleet.
Though I strongly suspect the pride and considerable ego of BoB leadership will never let it come to that. Corps and Alliances die cuz their members stop having fun, and express that sentiment by not logging in or moving on to something else in the game.
BoB will not die a heroic death. They will simply fade away. Ultimately becoming just another chapter in the EVE history book.
Just as Goons will at some point, but BoB's chapter will be earlier in the book than Goons.
cheers,
x
All warfare is economic warfare when its broken down to its most basic level.
Ancient Gallente saying, author unknown
But, but, but, DB Preacher told me there are no goons! |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.21 15:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
When Bob conquored ASCN was there a dip in production? Did prices spike? When MC was running rampant in the North did anything happen?
In short, I doubt there will be much affect at all unless the whole South remains in such turmoil that no one is able to Moon Mine. New Invention pressure will probably be a more important factor than Bob.
Ahhh....that felt nice... marginalizing the impact of anything that Bob does. Boy, they're going to have a hard time adjusting to not being important.
If you've been watching the markets closely yes, when BoB hit ASCN there was a price spike, and MC on the north, same thing. Interestingly it happened on different moon materials depending on where was attacked. Invention pressure you're right, is far far more significant, the price rises were not nearly as high following previous territorial losses as they are now with increased demand as well as reduced supply.
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