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Miranda Moneybags
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Posted - 2007.12.24 05:05:00 -
[1]
You know, looking at the prices of officer and deadspace modules makes me wonder why there isn't more ganking of Caldari Navy Ravens. Shouldn't it be hypothetically quite profitable?
You could platinum-insure some torp Ravens with T1 outfits and only lose about...40 million per Raven destroyed. Compare that to the easily 1000-3000 million ISK some Navy Ravens carry in officer/deadspace/faction mods...and you have quite the tidy profit margin, no?
Am I missing anything that might explain why CNR gankage is so rare, or have I just inadvertently stumbled over paydirt?
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Cyriel Longinus
XERCORE
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Posted - 2007.12.24 06:03:00 -
[2]
It's kinda of obvious but I will illustrate...
Let's say I was in empire and you decided to suicide gank my CNR, you would have to bring an onverwhelming alpha strike and sustained firepower to dominate me before concord arrives.
There would be three to five minutes of sustained fire and me tanking while I'm returning fire. Concord arrives. I polish you off. You go boom. I continue on. This is considering that you brought three or more T1 Torp Ravens with your gangs defenses peaking at about 60% resistances (maybe). You would be less a few T1 Ravens and wiser.
If attempted this alone. You simply would be less one Raven and wiser.
But if I was in lowsec. You could get me and we'd have one good conversation about the rush and highlights ... fun.
Now if the CNR Pilot was just some random three month old pilot in empire with a shiny CNR ... you could probably pull it off.
But I would say, a T1 Raven would not be the best tool for this suicide job. The Torps are to damn so slow and you need to be within reach around distance now to get anything done.
Something with Large Blasters and Heavy Drones might be the better deal.
Aside from the whole suicide gank idea ... you can look up some of Lofty's idea that allow you to get what you want and come out it with your ship intact.
Then again, what do I know. I make ISK without preying on others.
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Zamolxis
Spartan Industries
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.24 06:16:00 -
[3]
Been there done that..
Linkage
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Plaetean
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.12.24 06:41:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cyriel Longinus
It's kinda of obvious but I will illustrate...
Let's say I was in empire and you decided to suicide gank my CNR, you would have to bring an onverwhelming alpha strike and sustained firepower to dominate me before concord arrives.
There would be three to five minutes of sustained fire and me tanking while I'm returning fire. Concord arrives. I polish you off. You go boom. I continue on. This is considering that you brought three or more T1 Torp Ravens with your gangs defenses peaking at about 60% resistances (maybe). You would be less a few T1 Ravens and wiser.
If attempted this alone. You simply would be less one Raven and wiser.
But if I was in lowsec. You could get me and we'd have one good conversation about the rush and highlights ... fun.
Now if the CNR Pilot was just some random three month old pilot in empire with a shiny CNR ... you could probably pull it off.
But I would say, a T1 Raven would not be the best tool for this suicide job. The Torps are to damn so slow and you need to be within reach around distance now to get anything done.
Something with Large Blasters and Heavy Drones might be the better deal.
Aside from the whole suicide gank idea ... you can look up some of Lofty's idea that allow you to get what you want and come out it with your ship intact.
Then again, what do I know. I make ISK without preying on others.
It's been done before (suicide ganking extremely expensively fit cnrs)
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Miranda Moneybags
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Posted - 2007.12.24 06:58:00 -
[5]
Well, with all due respect, you're automatically making a number of assumptions.
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus
There would be three to five minutes of sustained fire and me tanking while I'm returning fire. Concord arrives. I polish you off. You go boom. I continue on.
1) Your will be tanked against the target's damage. From the various Raven setup threads I've seen the overwhelming majority use specialized hardeners. So if a CNR was ganked with EMP torps when he only had Kin/Therm hardeners...he won't last 3-5 minutes. Hell, he shouldn't last a tenth that. There's a reason passive tanking tends to be prevalent in PvP: because active tanks can more easily overwhelmed and rendered useless under concentrated fire. And remember, the temptation of 1-3 billion ISK in loot means a gank squad can probably afford more than one Raven -- two, three, or even four. You will not be lasting minutes under concentrated fire.
Quote:
The Torps are to damn so slow and you need to be within reach around distance now to get anything done.
2) Engagements will be at longer ranges. As you know cruise missiles tend to have vast ranges, easily double or even triple the distance of the farthest enemies upon warp-in. So the majority of CNRs stay close to their acceleration gate exit point, if they even move at all. Only a few missions actually require longer-range slowboating. The ganker will then warp in ontop or very near the target in all probability, or can close what range there is via a speed advantage (afterburner, nanos, whatever).
But what about in the event the target is simply too far away to effectively torp gank? Easy. They can leave. Since it doesn't trigger CONCORD hate they can simply pass the target and find another with zero casualties. Or alternatively, the gank crew can just use cruise missiles. Etcetera.
* * * * * *
As for the Megathron versus Raven issue, I think the Raven is still a better choice. A full rack of T1 weapons and T1 ammo on either amounts to approximately the same DPS; 360 (Raven) and 370 (Mega), postulating maximum skills and 100% accuracy. The Mega has space for two extra drones, but drones aren't that viable during suicide ganks anyways due to traveling time delay. The Raven may have a time delay in its torps, true, but the Raven can simply select what they target isn't tanked against such as EM or Explosive damage. And the Raven doesn't have DPS loss from inaccuracy either; in fact, due to the CNR's large sig radus torps will hit for full damage.
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.24 07:01:00 -
[6]
first you want to scan the targets fittings. Then track him and get his scheduled play times...then you want to probe out his missions and ther are some covert ways to get him to agro you....preventing the concord interferance...then suddenly you are running around with a hold full of officer fittings
EXECUTIVE OFFICER
"Finder of SafeSpots-Killer of Pods" |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.12.24 09:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Miranda Moneybags
The Mega has space for two extra drones, but drones aren't that viable during suicide ganks anyways due to traveling time delay.
Sentry drones
SKUNK
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.12.24 10:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 24/12/2007 10:51:13
So far, from what I've seen on killboards and heard on forums, every pilot who lost a CNR was making an obvious mistake. Being in low sec, taking agro-bait, having strange/useless fittings, travelling afk, etc.
Be smart and your CNR will be unprofitably-difficult to suicide gank.
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abbagabba
Gallente
Monster Raving Loonies
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Posted - 2007.12.24 14:06:00 -
[9]
This has come up quite a bit recently. Yes it is very doable by all accounts, either with a gaggle of battleship (less hp than a freighter) or by nuking the cnr's cap in mission and then holding them long enough to be finished by rats (or a much smaller gaggle of battleships). Some cnr pilots were saying they fit a cap booster to avoid this scenario.
It is rare for the same reason freighter ganking is rare, it requires a lot more skill, planning and manpower than hanging round a gate knocking off haulers on autopilot. Plus it is not as visible if it is happening inside missions. There was quite a nice thread once about someone who saw one cnr farmer get wiped out by a massive bunch of other farmers in caracals!
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.24 15:20:00 -
[10]
i heard that taking note of the ship name then scanning it down in a mission then nuking its cap and letting the npc agro finish it off as you bump it to death works well.  
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Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo. |
Cyriel Longinus
XERCORE
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Posted - 2007.12.25 10:10:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cyriel Longinus on 25/12/2007 10:14:24
Originally by: Miranda Moneybags
Edited by: Miranda Moneybags on 24/12/2007 08:10:46
Well, with all due respect, you're automatically making a number of assumptions.
I read what you are saying.
No I'm not assuming what I know is on my ship. I PVP fit for every occasion. I carry a warp scram on my drakes. I expect and hope for trouble. I've been tested by damn good DPS dealers and I'm often outnumbered. It's a good habit I picked up while living in warzones.
I suggested this so that I can offer you a unxepcted perspective. It's the surprise most would not consider. The CNR Pilot who is ready for a fight and is open for a little PvP to drop in while running a mission. Billions invested in MODs fitted on a CNR by a Pilot with PvP skills versus Tech I damage gives Concord enough time to save the day.
Originally by: Zamolxis
Been there done that..
Linkage
As for the guy who was on the Killmail ... he was properly dead the moment Shigsy marked him .... I mean, c'mon, it's Shigsy! ... I once seen Shigs (or was that Scrutts?) take out a entire corporation, no joke .... add the two Geddons to the gangbang = conffin nails, sure thing and done deal.
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Hedia Le'fair
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Posted - 2007.12.25 12:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Hedia Le''fair on 25/12/2007 12:34:24
ive never been fly'ing drunk  *opens a beer*
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Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.25 17:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Taua Roqa
i heard that taking note of the ship name then scanning it down in a mission then nuking its cap and letting the npc agro finish it off as you bump it to death works well.
In some situations where there is overwhelming aggro on the raven and it has thin/low shields... maybe.
Although, many of them could hold on for a while and you won't be able to keep lock to nuke it for that long before Concord take you down.
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.12.25 18:46:00 -
[14]
Suicide ganking a fully fit CNR whose pilot is not AFK is certainly possible but its highly impractical in most cases. Concord take around 20-30 seconds to show up max and they perma jam and neut the aggressors cap instantly removing any offensive ability ending the attack, drone ships like the Domi where popular for suicide ganks but iirc on the test server drones where jammed to but I dont know if it made it to TQ.
So any suicide gank has to have enough ships and firepower to take out the CNR in around 20 seconds and even with the wrong resists fitted a pimp CNR usually has a fairly impressive shield boost which will slow the process down.
A big enough gang could certainly do it but it would be close and you would be pushing the cost Vs reward ratio and there is always the chance the good loot wont drop. Messing with NPCs is not viable because if you rep the rats or neut the CNR will cause concordokken and you could try bumping the CNR but the chances of him needing to warp out are slim and the NPCs could end up targeting you.
*moderated - removed to facilitate search query* |
Entity One
Enlai
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Posted - 2007.12.25 21:00:00 -
[15]
I don't understand why all of you are making this sound so difficult. Caldari space, most ravens are tanked kin/therm for guristas. Em resistance is very often close to zero. 5 Megapulse Geddons with a Heavy neut fitted = BBQed Navy Raven with almost no cap instantly. Not to mention it costs next to nothing after insurance. Mot all that complex imo.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.12.25 21:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Entity One
I don't understand why all of you are making this sound so difficult. Caldari space, most ravens are tanked kin/therm for guristas. Em resistance is very often close to zero. 5 Megapulse Geddons with a Heavy neut fitted = BBQed Navy Raven with almost no cap instantly. Not to mention it costs next to nothing after insurance. Mot all that complex imo.
exactly
as for the linked kill that cnr with 2dg invluns should have at least been able to tank 3 geddons. he even had a dc fit
and, i would go about it by finding them in a mission and landing a few geddons on them, mission dps + ganker dps +neuts -> dead cnr
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.12.25 22:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Entity One
I don't understand why all of you are making this sound so difficult. Caldari space, most ravens are tanked kin/therm for guristas. Em resistance is very often close to zero. 5 Megapulse Geddons with a Heavy neut fitted = BBQed Navy Raven with almost no cap instantly. Not to mention it costs next to nothing after insurance. Mot all that complex imo.
Even with zero shield EM resists and tanked for Guristas a CNR exceeds 60,000 effective HP with a moderately skilled pilot plugged in and that's not including any shield boosting from the CNR and no DCU so your 5 Armageddons would need a cheapish fit that exceeds 1200 DPS in order to kill it in around 30 seconds and Concord do sometimes show up around 20-25 seconds depending on system sec level, also bear in mind my figures are based on a non faction T2 tank so a pimped fit would be stronger
It is possible and with rat aggro it would be easier but I dont think 5 Geddons is realistic in most cases because it takes a moderately expensive setup to get the kind of damage you would need so its only worth it if the loot was really good or it was a non profit revenge thing.
*moderated - removed to facilitate search query* |
Entity One
Enlai
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Posted - 2007.12.25 22:14:00 -
[18]
Boosting is irrelevant, that geddon gank setup neuts the hell out of em. Not to mention that you're always free to bring more geddons, like I said after insurance it costs next to nothing. Getting a single DG invuln out of the mess will more than recoup all the losses. In addition, simply choose a lower sec level mission hub, there are quite a few .5 mission hubs around, and you'll have more than enough time to melt em.
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