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Skiee
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:32:00 -
[1]
Someone steals stuff from the corp, and tries to leave, corp gives roles to prevent the person from leaving. Gets petitioned on, and GM says stop. So thief gets away with no problem. He waits out his time in a station to save himself from any harm until he free of corp. He is free to go about his way with no problem. How is this exactly fair for a Corp, when we can't punish people for stealing. So he joins a new corp, with much bigger and older people who have years under thier history, we can't war dec them. So where do the managers of a corp get the power to reprimend thieves in a corp?
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:33:00 -
[2]
How do you prevent a corp thief from stealing? Don't give him roles to steal.
- Recruitment open again-
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:33:00 -
[3]
Be more careful who you give roles to in the first place. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Skiee
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:36:00 -
[4]
And if its a dear dear friend who you have played MANY games with, and because of a stupid fight, that person steals and leaves. So should I just never trust any corp mates? Then whats the purpose of a corp if you going to look at everyone as thieves? Is it possible to possibly make it so founders/ceo's can take from a persons hanger, so that the stolen items of a thief can be retrieved?
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Skiee And if its a dear dear friend who you have played MANY games with, and because of a stupid fight, that person steals and leaves. So should I just never trust any corp mates? Then whats the purpose of a corp if you going to look at everyone as thieves? Is it possible to possibly make it so founders/ceo's can take from a persons hanger, so that the stolen items of a thief can be retrieved?
This is EVE. It's not Hello Kitty online. Adapt or go play another game.
- Recruitment open again-
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Skiee And if its a dear dear friend who you have played MANY games with, and because of a stupid fight, that person steals and leaves. So should I just never trust any corp mates? Then whats the purpose of a corp if you going to look at everyone as thieves? Is it possible to possibly make it so founders/ceo's can take from a persons hanger, so that the stolen items of a thief can be retrieved?
Wasn't that good of a friend if he ripped you off over a silly fight. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Skiee
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:51:00 -
[7]
Oh wow, yes this is Eve. Since only those of dense minds seem to lack the understanding what I am trying to refer to is this. Its one sided for thieves to steal and be off and running without a problem in the world. Where as their are very limited reprocusions for them, the most hurt are the people/corps that had been wronged. Perhaps besides simple blood shed, other means should be placed in getting "even" at least in a corp perspective. Rather then allowing thieves to dump roles, and log off for the next 24 hours and be scot free of any troubles.
So as the person above me stated, this has nothing to do with hello kitty. How that ever came about, we'll leave to your sick perversion. As for me, I am talking about corps getting even with bad members.
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2007.12.26 20:56:00 -
[8]
You hire mercs to hunt him till he quits, you war dec any corp he joins, you follow him around and remind him he sucks in local.
Thats how, you don't get to lock the person down in your corp because you don't know who to trust. (protip: if you can't walk over to their house and punch them in the face for being a ****, then you can't really trust them) |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Skiee Oh wow, yes this is Eve. Since only those of dense minds seem to lack the understanding what I am trying to refer to is this. Its one sided for thieves to steal and be off and running without a problem in the world. Where as their are very limited reprocusions for them, the most hurt are the people/corps that had been wronged. Perhaps besides simple blood shed, other means should be placed in getting "even" at least in a corp perspective. Rather then allowing thieves to dump roles, and log off for the next 24 hours and be scot free of any troubles.
So as the person above me stated, this has nothing to do with hello kitty. How that ever came about, we'll leave to your sick perversion. As for me, I am talking about corps getting even with bad members.
Cry me a river. Build me a bridge. And get over it.
- Recruitment open again-
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yosef kaldhu
Genesis Trade And Industry Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:05:00 -
[10]
the only real thing you can do is get in touch with every corp he works for telling them of his miss deeds hopefully they will eject him (unless it a pirate corp then they mite premote him) and eventually he will have to start again or have this disgrace follow him forever or until he stops playin which ever comes first |
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Darth Revanant
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:09:00 -
[11]
This has been addressed many times before. CCP wants corp theft to be a part of the game and I like it, but as you've said, it's imbalanced. There are no game mechanics to check someone's background except employment history. The usefulness of this information is very limited, not to mention most corp thieves will be noob alts. Roles are good for restricting access, but not useful in preventing corp theft. Roles don't prevent corp theft. If someone is determined enough and patient enough, they can steal anything from anyone and there are no game mechanics to prevent it. Even when you use game mechanics, such as granting roles to keep a person from leaving, CCP disallows it. They do this all the time. As in your case if the thief goes to a larger corp or stays in an NPC corp or biomasses his alt he used, there's nothing you can do. You could spend isk on mercs, but thief has still cost you something at no risk or cost to himself. CCP loves its risk:reward, but it doesn't exist when it comes to corp theft.
I personally like the fact that corp theft exists in eve. What I don't like is that it's too simple to do with no risk. _______________
Recruitment Office |
Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Skiee Someone steals stuff from the corp, and tries to leave, corp gives roles to prevent the person from leaving. Gets petitioned on, and GM says stop. So thief gets away with no problem. He waits out his time in a station to save himself from any harm until he free of corp. He is free to go about his way with no problem. How is this exactly fair for a Corp, when we can't punish people for stealing. So he joins a new corp, with much bigger and older people who have years under thier history, we can't war dec them. So where do the managers of a corp get the power to reprimend thieves in a corp?
search the forums...stealing is within the game mechanics, you gave roles to someone you didnt 1000000000% trust, he took advantage of it. So dont cry that you got ripped off or stolen from. You ripped yourself off by not securing your corporations assets.
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Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Darth Revanant There are no game mechanics to check someone's background except employment history.
If someone steals from you, take it to crime and punishment and name and shame the person. If a crime goes unreported in RL, theres no background information to clue an employer in to what the guy has done in the past.
If the corp that gets stolen from doesnt perfomr their due dilligence to check this kind of stuff, and then give roles to someone they dont trust, they open themselves up for theft.
As to the OP, do NOT keep giving this guy roles. You are griefing him, let him LEAVE. You screwed yourself over, dont take it out on him b/c he was intelligent enough to exploit your weakness.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Darth Revanant I personally like the fact that corp theft exists in eve. What I don't like is that it's too simple to do with no risk.
Agreed.
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DudTrap
Gallente The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:44:00 -
[15]
What about being able to mark the characters employment history next to your corp and date, say a little icon that indicates the char has stolen from this corp and left on bad terms?
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Skiee
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:49:00 -
[16]
Thank you Darth. You hit the nail right on the head. Its fine if thieft is around, perfectly fine. For all the people who keep saying its legal, what even made you think that I said it should be not allowed? blah blah blah your fingers go, yet most of the people speak of no clue of whats going on. This topic hasn't even reached two pages, must be deathly hard to get any and all information before posting... ANyways...
Darth, that is exactly what I am trying to say, its the fact that when a thieft IS committed, its so simple to exploit the system and get off scot free with no problems. It should be made that if you are given roles in regards to being able to take stuff from the corp, you as a person should accept that in return the corp can take from you. In that regard, let it be something a person has to "agree" on when given the roles, if they decline then the roles aren't given. That way, its a two way system rather then strictly one sided.
That also includes if the person accepts the roles to take from corp then turns around and tries to leave the corp, that particuler role stays in affect, so in the same aspect, a corp could become a thief as well. It would be a balanced situation where both sides could possibly be wronged.
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Holiday Spirit
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Posted - 2007.12.26 21:59:00 -
[17]
I think that items should be allowed to be set as 'corporate property'.
Whether they be ships or mods, blueprints or otherwise. Tag them 'corp property'.
After they get the tag, if someone tries to 'steal' the goods, when they xfer out of the corp those items are removed from their hangars/cargo holds/etc and returned to the owning corp.
If the theif has the goods in a corp office station - the goods just pop back into the corp hangar. If the thief ran off with the goods to a non-corp office station - the goods get dropped in the corp delivery basket of that station for pickup by a corp member.
Then all you have to do is make it so a pilot trying to exit a corp cannot do so while undocked, and the theiving problem is solved.
But not for isk. If you give the isk-taking role to someone and they rob the bank dry, there's no way to get around that.. too many obsticals.
But individual items, could be tracked individually.
Just an idea.
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Darth Revanant
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Khanid Kutie If someone steals from you, take it to crime and punishment and name and shame the person. If a crime goes unreported in RL, theres no background information to clue an employer in to what the guy has done in the past.
1. The forums are not a game mechanic. 2. In RL there are law enforcement organizations to report a theft to. In EVE there are none, so saying that a corp theft might go unreported is just not a valid arguement. 3. There is plenty of background information to clue an employer in to what the guy has done in the past. Besides employment history, which is much more useful in RL than in EVE, there is the much more useful criminal record which absolutely does not exist in EVE.
Originally by: Khanid Kutie If the corp that gets stolen from doesnt perfomr their due dilligence to check this kind of stuff, and then give roles to someone they dont trust, they open themselves up for theft.
1. There is very little 'due dilligence' to perform and 99% of that is not a game mechanic (screenshots, etc.) 2. You argue that no one can be trusted and then talk about "giv[ing] roles to someone they don't trust". So either no one can be trusted, in which case no one should get roles and corps shouldn't exist, or people can be trusted but there need to be game mechanics to deal with theives. 3. Your entire post ignores the use of alts. _______________
Recruitment Office |
Cadiz
Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cadiz on 26/12/2007 22:46:08 Seeing as station containers are all kinds of weird and require "container take" roles simply to let people remove stuff from them (THANKS REV2 THANKS, if I wanted people to be able to take the entire damned container just so they could remove stuff from it I wouldn't even bother in the first place), it'd be nice if hangar tabs and POS ship maintenance arrays had integrated audit logs.
Oh yes indeed, that would be lovely.
Wouldn't do anything to prevent corp theft, but it would go a long way towards being able to track down & persecute guilty parties. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Lysander Memnos
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DudTrap What about being able to mark the characters employment history next to your corp and date, say a little icon that indicates the char has stolen from this corp and left on bad terms?
Building off this, why not report the corp theft to CONCORD or whoever is the 'governing body of capsuleers'? To deal with such, CCP might have to expand the employment history into a sort of 'resume' that is controlled by said governing body. A player wishing to join a corp might submit a private resume but the corp could follow up by requesting the 'official' resume (for a fee, of course.) It would detail actions taken within the purview of said governing body (but not outside? why are pirate corps allowed to incorporate?) and could provide information like reported corp thefts or satisfactory/unsatisfactory ratings from previous corporations.
CCP, listen up! You could increase depth-of-immersion and create another isk sink in one fell swoop!
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Frannkie
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:54:00 -
[21]
This is a topic that gets raised a few times.... anyway..
firstly i agree, that it is a part of the game and one that all ceo's must be weary of, as others have stated, dont give roles hence there is a lack of opportunity to steal. However, it is also a very unbalance game mechanic.
There should be a means to 'deal' with the the theft, if the corp catches the culprit in the act. The element of risk v rewards favours the corp theif.
Solution... i dont really know if there is one. Again the small minded attitudes of those who jump up and down on the 'deal with it bandwagon' ... these are probably just the very people that commit these kind of acts... i do wonder tho a theif in game = a thief in real life ?
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.26 22:57:00 -
[22]
As to the question of what you CAN do about a Corp Thief:
1: Report on Crime and Punishment, so others might not hire him. 2: Watch his character and any known alts. Inform new CEO's of the thief's history. 3: Use Location agents in empire and hunt them down and kill them repeatedly. 4: War dec any corp he joins. 5: Watch the Sell forums, and if you find them selling the character spoil the auction with a corp thief report. 6: Hire Mercs to pod him and pay for the body. 7: Infiltrate his new corp, get roles, and steal them blind if they don't listen to your advice and kick him. 8: If the character is ever sold, polietely inform the new owner that they have bought a Corp thief, and continue to pod them. Get all the details you can first, of course, such as which character they transfered the isk to. 9: Find his other friends in Eve, and threaten/inflict the same damage on them until they pressure the thief to return the stolen items.
Basically, the above boils down to 'Grief him back'.
And I agree that the tools do not exist to protect a Corp's assets properly. You can try to minimize the damage, but the reality is that you can't stop it.
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xJohnnyDx
The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race
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Posted - 2007.12.26 23:24:00 -
[23]
I'd kill for a simple "purchase from corp" interface, along with a max number of items that can be purchased (or taken, if that's the setup) per day.
I bet it could be built off the existing market, even.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.12.27 01:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Skiee Apparently I don't understand Eve...
Dude... thievery is part of Eve... it's unbalanced as well. OF COURSE IT"S UNBALANCED.
Betrayal of trust is always a bolt-from-the-blue if done correctly.
War dec every corp he jumps to, inform their ceo, hunt him down. Sheesh.
Originally by: Riethe You know the female who does the voice for Aura? Do you ever think when she's alone with her boyfriend, she's like... "Docking request accepted" ?
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Jacob Holland
Gallente 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.27 02:08:00 -
[25]
I would agree that corp theft is too easy. I would also agree that it is a part of the game which shouldn't be lost.
The primary concern IMHO is that any theft reporting mechanic should not be automated and therefore penalise those last active members in a corp which has gone inactive when they take whatever they can get their hands on from a corp they helped build before the receivers are called in (particularly the case when the CEO is among the inactives and can't be voted out).
An audit log on corp hangers is a big step forward, a station container, at least, can't be moved, a smaller audit log container can't be reprocessed or repackaged if its been stolen from (provided it's been set up correctly) and therefore the log exists but where is another matter. The last corp theft I experienced would not have gone the way it did had the station warehouse blueprint been seeded earlier.
I might suggest a system to prevent someone from leaving a corp if they're suspected of corp theft, perhaps call it an audit... You notice something is missing from the corp hanger, you notice that players have resigned roles, you slap them with an audit rather than trying to hold them in corp through roles. I would suggest that audit logs would be required (to reduce the chances of a player being pinned in a corp against their will without good reason) but that, at the price of eternal vigilance, some mechanic might be able to support those who catch the corp theif in the act.
The penalties involved are probably the most contentious issue, the simplest system is to return items taken within a certain time period from the thief's hanger to the location the audit logs show them as removed from, though that perhaps swings the pendulum too far in favour of the corporations (but hey, it's a hypercapitalistic distopia, corporations are supposed to have all the power). An obvious alternative is simply to flag the offender's employment history, they may have got away with half a dozen Guristas Control Towers and billions in Zydrine but they're branded with that forever. You could also provide the corporation with kill rights on the pilot for a set period but unless that period was extremely long it would most likely result in the thief simple sitting in station for that much longer.
Without a human authority to go to however and therefore increasing the GM's workload anything put in place would be arbitrary, if one could petition a corp theft to (for example) the SCC, specifying what was stolen and by whom (and allowing them a right to reply) and have any stolen items listed returned then everything would be simpler but that is an impractical option to say the least... --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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RedLion
Caldari Caldari Navy II
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Posted - 2007.12.27 02:17:00 -
[26]
I think CCP should give a corp, repeatable kill rights on a thief for some years.
Also since CCP loves meta gaming. Trojan his computer / hack his account, and transfer back all his isk and assets before you biomass him.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
Kel Dario
Amarr Blue Sky Inc
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Posted - 2007.12.27 02:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: RedLion I think CCP should give a corp, repeatable kill rights on a thief for some years.
Also since CCP loves meta gaming. Trojan his computer / hack his account, and transfer back all his isk and assets before you biomass him.
If you do this advice and CCP finds out about expect to get permabanned. Also if you live in a country where such a thing constitutes a crime you can get into trouble with the law.
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Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.27 04:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Skiee And if its a dear dear friend who you have played MANY games with, and because of a stupid fight, that person steals and leaves. So should I just never trust any corp mates? Then whats the purpose of a corp if you going to look at everyone as thieves? Is it possible to possibly make it so founders/ceo's can take from a persons hanger, so that the stolen items of a thief can be retrieved?
Simple. While you are having the fight you log on and take away his roles and give them back after dust settles. Or, before you have the fight you think about this happening and not get into the fight in the first place. If you read these forums any you'd know this happens a lot - friends stealing from friends in game after a disagreement, people not only steal corp stuff but also entire accounts that they were sharing - and would take some precautions to prevent this. You didn't, you went ahead and had a fight with him and didn't think of consequences, so now you get to play with what came out of your decisions.
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