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Solving many of the nano-nerf threads. Bringing diversity to Eve.

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Dreadpilot Roberts Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Dreadpilot Roberts on 26/12/2007 21:13:07 No more solo ganking. If CCP want to get rid of solo-ing and get rid of any kind of solo-pwn-mobile also to let interdictors and heavy interdictors shine at their roles then read this. Please don't post if you don't know squat about pvp, and if you do you must considers all aspects of pvp, taking into account any possible situation of 1v1 pvp and also gang pvp based on your experience. I believe that is the only way in which constructive criticism can be created. So take a deep breath and read this, here goes: Remove warp scramblers from the game ( the ones with 9k range and 2 points ) take them all off of market. Give the players that own the blueprints and have a lot of the mods some kind of compensation tho. Make CPU requirements for warp disruptors be 5000 CPU. Give special role-bonuses - 99% reduction in CPU requirement for them - to the following classes of ships: Electronic Attack Ship Recon Ship Interceptor Mothership Titan Black-Ops BS Also make the cap usage on officer warp disruptors A LOT bigger. Think about this change very well. This will stop all the solo-ing in eve. This will disable vagas and ishtars ability to solo-roam fishing for farmers. This will force fleet commanders to really think about gang composition, the game will become more complex and will add more diversity. Also the fact that every fleet has to have designated tacklers will be a very nice change in small skirmishes. If this change will ever fall through I think that regular cloaks (non cov-ops) need to be changed and made probe-able to some extent. Imagine after this change how pvp, roaming, fleet battles will take place. I personally find it would be a much needed breath of fresh air. There is also one problem ... piracy will not be so easy as it is now. The pvp'ers from low sec wont be able to solo-pwn noobs that run missions over there and jump into their systems on gates that easily. They will not be able to do their usual f1-f8 "I killed you" routine when camping gates solo. They will actually need to have tactics and bring heavy interdictors, black ops, or recon ships to warp disrupt ships and tank the sentries. Anyway, after you read it. Think about what would the change would mean to you for 5 mins, pvp-wise , and try and post constructive criticism in a polite and intelligent manner. P.S. I don't wanna hear the care-bears screaming it's a great ideea. You will all still die , just not to rogue solo-ers. I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:21:00 - [2] Another option along the same lines would be to greatly increase cap consumption on warp disruptors. I'm not sure I like the idea of removing solo PVP though. =( -Liang -- Gain Forum Fame Now! Want To Trade Liang Nuren For Your Character! Post in the thread or send me an Evemail. ^_
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:22:00 - [3] My single biggest issue with this is that it means the only thing a new player can really do to aid a gang has been taken away. Given that tackling can pretty quickly lead to ship vaporization, in larger gangs your tackler is generally in an easily replacable frigate. Even the cheapest ship on your list costs in the neighborhood of 30 million isk. I know 30 mil isn't a LOT in the grand scheme of things but given the requency of tackler loss I don't think people would want to pay the costs so frequently. I'm not entirely opposed to making certain ships warp scrambler/jammers by default, but to leave it so that only T2 ships can scram, seems to me like you're handing the vetern players the way to kill people and leaving everyone else out to dry.
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:41:00 - [4] Easiest modification would be simply to add the T1 hulls used for interceptors to the list, the Atron, Condor, Executioner and Slasher. I'm less keen on the idea however, it's not been that long since stabs were nerfed if nothing else. The focus if this were to happen would either be on bumping or on intense gank, trying to blow someone's ship up before they can align for warp. Both options are counter to where CCP have said they want things (longer combats so that more tactical options are available to the pilot and commitment to combat (no flying in, trying your luck and then running if the opposition is too tough)). -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Dreadpilot Roberts Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Derek Sigres My single biggest issue with this is that it means the only thing a new player can really do to aid a gang has been taken away. Given that tackling can pretty quickly lead to ship vaporization, in larger gangs your tackler is generally in an easily replacable frigate. Even the cheapest ship on your list costs in the neighborhood of 30 million isk. I know 30 mil isn't a LOT in the grand scheme of things but given the requency of tackler loss I don't think people would want to pay the costs so frequently. I'm not entirely opposed to making certain ships warp scrambler/jammers by default, but to leave it so that only T2 ships can scram, seems to me like you're handing the vetern players the way to kill people and leaving everyone else out to dry. Well ... a decent fitted stiletto costs about 15 mil m8, no rigs required on it tbh. And if by this change it would mean the end for noob t1 ship gangs/blobs then it's yet another great improvement imho :P Why should a 2 week player tackle me if I'm in a freighter for example ( wanna look at it through all points of view - dont get the wrong Ideea, I got 250 Skillpoints in industry on my main, and never flown t2/haulers or freighters lol . Let them skill-up for inties or EAS, which tbh is just what all the new players should be doing if they start speccing ships. And it doesnt take more than 2 months to jump into one and fly it to fulfill it's role. And yes, the concept of EVE is that it's a team game, and solo-pvp should not take place, except frig dog-fights (inties, EAS) and other cruiser class ships. I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Liang Nuren Another option along the same lines would be to greatly increase cap consumption on warp disruptors. I'm not sure I like the idea of removing solo PVP though. =( -Liang I'm sure a lot of people do not like the idea but removing solo pvp removes a signficant part of the balance nightmare. Hopefully they'd improve support skills and such but really the result wouldn't neccessarily be no solo pvp you can still pvp just don't expect to actually kill your opponent(or just use a plated/active tank and bump them ^_^). -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts Originally by: Derek Sigres My single biggest issue with this is that it means the only thing a new player can really do to aid a gang has been taken away. Given that tackling can pretty quickly lead to ship vaporization, in larger gangs your tackler is generally in an easily replacable frigate. Even the cheapest ship on your list costs in the neighborhood of 30 million isk. I know 30 mil isn't a LOT in the grand scheme of things but given the requency of tackler loss I don't think people would want to pay the costs so frequently. I'm not entirely opposed to making certain ships warp scrambler/jammers by default, but to leave it so that only T2 ships can scram, seems to me like you're handing the vetern players the way to kill people and leaving everyone else out to dry. Well ... a decent fitted stiletto costs about 15 mil m8, no rigs required on it tbh. And if by this change it would mean the end for noob t1 ship gangs/blobs then it's yet another great improvement imho :P Why should a 2 week player tackle me if I'm in a freighter for example ( wanna look at it through all points of view - dont get the wrong Ideea, I got 250 Skillpoints in industry on my main, and never flown t2/haulers or freighters lol . Let them skill-up for inties or EAS, which tbh is just what all the new players should be doing if they start speccing ships. And it doesnt take more than 2 months to jump into one and fly it to fulfill it's role. And yes, the concept of EVE is that it's a team game, and solo-pvp should not take place, except frig dog-fights (inties, EAS) and other cruiser class ships. I understand the annoyance at getting jammed by a character newer than yourself. I just got mega owned when my scorp got jammed by a damn condor and then his friends came (you'd THINK 5 Hypnos Multispecs and pretty good EWAR skills woulda dropped his lock at some point but you'd be ever so wrong). That being said, I don't like the the idea of restricting it to players who've invested millions of SP into T2 ships just so they can jam. The increased cap consumption seems like a better solution with certain ships getting substantial bonuses to cap usage. You get the bonus of making it more difficult to solo own people (but not impossible by any stretch) while still allowing anybody to scram to an extent.
Maverick 52	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:01:00 - [8] I don't like it. You have some points that make sense, and some I don't agree with. My main issue is I like solo PvP, and this would require gangs 23/7.
PathetiQ Gallente Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:15:00 - [9] lol 5000pcu for scram.... ridiculus post! ::Killing Space Monkey Since 1969::
Mik kyo D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:42:00 - [10] Because you feel you can't solo, is no reason to remove solo pvp from the game, which is effectivly what your suggesting.
Dreadpilot Roberts Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Mik kyo Because you feel you can't solo, is no reason to remove solo pvp from the game, which is effectivly what your suggesting. Haha, does this post hurt ur fotm ? :P Guess if this someday will fall-through you'd actually have to start flying something else than your vaga and ishtar lol. Btw, I say this as a nano-vaga/curse pilot ... I'm tired of seeing the same ships over and over again in 0.0 I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:06:00 - [12] I would hate to see solo PvP completely gone. Also, you do realise if this change goes through all it will mean is that everyone flys nano recons instead of nano HACs.
Dreadpilot Roberts Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Dheorl I would hate to see solo PvP completely gone. Also, you do realise if this change goes through all it will mean is that everyone flys nano recons instead of nano HACs. Nah I'll still fly vaga and deimos and even AFs, logistics too lol. Anyway, I'd kinda like to see kickass 30-100 man force recon ship gangs :P wouldn't that be something :) I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
Mik kyo D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts you'd actually have to start flying something else than your vaga and ishtar lol I'm a hurricane pilot, I fly the huginn often while roaming to help the gang, I don't fly the vaga much, and I have never flown an ishtar, quit failing. With your suggestion you remove solo pvp totally, from all ships.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:33:00 - [15] Anything that increases solo PVP is an improvement. The OP's ideas are utter junk. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Ask Unbeatable Tenacious Danes	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anything that increases solo PVP is an improvement. The OP's ideas are utter junk.
Commander BroudMoore Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:44:00 - [17] So did I miss something or is OP really suggesting that ganking raters should be made even more risk free for small gangs? Whats the point in hunting when you KNOW even before you engage that your target cant scram / disrupt your ship at all, and you could just bugger off if things dont go your way? Takes all the fun out of it IMO. No risk = no fun in PvP
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:45:00 - [18] I do agree this would aspect one portion of nano problems in game, however I think solo pvp is a good thing for this game, its already apparent the game cant handle the kind of fleet combat most want to do. On top of this a big portion of why I still play is that I can go hunt solo or in very small gangs in hostile space.
Segmentor Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Ask Unbeatable Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anything that increases solo PVP is an improvement. The OP's ideas are utter junk. - Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Mavil	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:13:00 - [20] Probably the worst suggestion I've heard from a non-alt who's played the game for atleast a while that I've seen in quite some time. You basically want to kill solo PvP? Let me guess, your comeback to me will be "lol no more vaga/ishtar for you!"?
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:21:00 - [21] so dreadpilot roberts what you're really saying is; "i've just got myself a new black-ops battleship and i want to be able to gank anyone i want without having to risk my ship because i kinda suck at PvP" my next point is titans and motherships shouldn't have the skill either that's what support ships are for. if you even want this idea to be vaguly worth putting into effect then we get a new T1 frig and a new T1 cruiser that get the ability to use warp scrams why don't cov op's get it either?
benzss The Highwayman Union	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:34:00 - [22] Edited by: benzss on 27/12/2007 02:35:43 No. I appreciate that you thought this through, but I think I vomited a little in mouth while reading the OP. My main objection is that I enjoy solo-ing in low sec... the fun being that I can force a ship bigger and possibly better than mine to engage in a fight so I can have a bit of fun (took down a Typhoon the other day in a Vexor, for example). If warp scramblers are removed then I've got **** all to do if nobody's online. We aren't all in a big alliance full of 23/7 PvPers, Mr Triumvirate ;)
Trev Kachanov Kachanov Militia	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:36:00 - [23] Worst idea ever. You'd make 95% of the ships unable to solo, and the remaining only a few capable of killing the target. What is so damn wrong with solo pvp? Don't trip
The RepoMan Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:40:00 - [24] Ummm.... so instead of having a gang og 6 vagas jumping a nubcake or famer in a raven, we'd have 5 vagas and a nano-recon/eas/inty.... or just a bunch of ew ***** ships as the only 'viable pvp option'. I dont see this as an improvement.
Dreadpilot Roberts Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Gawain Hill so dreadpilot roberts what you're really saying is; "i've just got myself a new black-ops battleship and i want to be able to gank anyone i want without having to risk my ship because i kinda suck at PvP" my next point is titans and motherships shouldn't have the skill either that's what support ships are for. if you even want this idea to be vaguly worth putting into effect then we get a new T1 frig and a new T1 cruiser that get the ability to use warp scrams why don't cov op's get it either? Black ops BS suck :) I wouldnt fly anything bs size for roaming ... Anyway ... what bout this. If you want solo pvp so badly ( and I thought you might ). Change warp scramblers thus: frig size warp scrambler: can warp disrupt frigate/destroyer size ships. cruiser sized warp scrambler: can warp disrupt cruiser sized ships and lower. bs-sized warp scram: can warp disr bs and lower. But the fitting req for them would be close to microwarpdrives. 20km range, 1 point and cap usage of 1mn 10mn 100mn mwd's. So ? Anyway I hope you know that this is just an ideea lol, if it would actually be implemented somewhere along the line, I bet it would take CCP at least half a year to do so. So ease-up on the hostility I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
Mik kyo D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:11:00 - [26] So your now saying that when i solo pvp I can only kill ships that are the same size as me or smaller? I'll say it again, because you cannot do it is not a reason to remove it from the game, I think we have some nice ores back up north btw.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:48:00 - [27] Yay, let's remove solo/small gang pvp from the game and have only 100 man blobs. HELL YEAH... oops... wait... EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Mavil	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:59:00 - [28] Yes, another great suggestion. A new way of removing the utility of all small tackling ships. I would try to give constructive criticism, but if you come with suggestions like this I'm not going to bother.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:06:00 - [29] Removal of solo PvP ability and removal of the use of T1 frigs is the only thing that would drive me to quit EvE. I think it's a horrible idea. Personally, I find the blob to be a bigger problem then soloing nano-ships. Rifters!
Kei Nagase Minmatar Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:48:00 - [30] Now the soloers will just use the ships that can Warp Disrupt and they'll target the ships that cant disrupt... We'll have more Solo PvPers and they will be nearly invincable. Even if you (as the defender) can kill the Attacking ship, it will just warp off if you can't disrupt it. Sigerceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Sig Radius AxOatAo

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