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Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:31:00 - [121] Originally by: Crumplecorn So, my corp has a conflict with another corp in our local operating area, negotiations break down, and we decide to deal with it using force. We wardec them, and they evade the wardec using iMune. But it's ok, even though we can't shoot our target, as long as we have someone to shoot? Crumplecorn brings up an interesting point here as well. As happened in the OP's situation, Not having the wardec follow the corp in and out of Alliances creates a situation where griefer alliances can actually grief small corps more easily. What do I mean? Well, let's say that we have two corps. "Noobs-R-Us" and "Grief-Sploit" (just to make up some random names) "Grief-Sploit" has been harassing "Noobs-R-Us" for the last several weeks. Stealing from their miner's cans, probing out and ninja-salvaging their missions, using suicide Alts to smartbomb their ships, Etc. Finally, the "Noobs-R-Us" leadership is sick and tired of the harassment. They know who is doing the griefing and they decide to bring it to a close. They wardec "Grief-Sploit". "Grief-Sploit", overjoyed that "Noobs-R-Us" has finally taken the bait, joins the iMune (or similar) Alliance, and then immediately quits, effectively dodging the wardec. "Noobs-R-Us" now has to deal with the much larger and PVP experienced iMune-style alliance, and "Greif-Sploit" gets a big laugh. As it stands right now, this behavior totally removes the purpose and function of a War-Dec, and has the potential of making War-Decs yet another tool for those who get their jollies out of ruining the game experience for as many people as possible. Oh, and let's not forget the ease of which MACRO MINER CORPS can use this to avoid wardecs without attracting the attention that disbanding and re-forming corps can bring. Ensuring that the wardec follows the corp would prevent or lessen this type of behavior. That is really the only change needed here. ---------------------------------------------------- How much would it cost to roll back to RevII CCP?
Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club iMune Empire	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:38:00 - [122] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane you get 24h to shoot them for your very small war dec fee. after they left immunr jus re-dec them. by doing so you can get a 50% war coverage if both play 100%. Try 33.3% war coverage 24hrs vote 24hrs warning 24hrs fighting Freedom For the corp that doesn't want to disband so they can play the game without losing everything. It's 66.6% freedom followed 33.3% danger followed by 100% freedom till the next war comes along.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:48:00 - [123] Originally by: Ivan Sable Originally by: Auron Shadowbane you get 24h to shoot them for your very small war dec fee. after they left immunr jus re-dec them. by doing so you can get a 50% war coverage if both play 100%. Try 33.3% war coverage 24hrs vote 24hrs warning 24hrs fighting Freedom For the corp that doesn't want to disband so they can play the game without losing everything. It's 66.6% freedom followed 33.3% danger followed by 100% freedom till the next war comes along. great And just what do you do about the macro miner and Isk farmer corps that are guaranteed to start using your "service" or the service of other Alliances once this "feature" gets to be widely known? Even you guys have to agree, allowing corps to completely avoid the war-dec (as opposed to joining your Alliance for help fighting the war-dec) is a broken game-mechanic. It CANNOT be allowed to remain in-game. Making the Dec follow the corp is the easiest way out of this mess, and it still allows iMune plenty of pew-pew, they just have to hold on to the new corp for a week. ---------------------------------------- How much would it cost to roll back to RevII CCP?
Anya Sardukar	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:50:00 - [124] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: Anya Sardukar Quote: You are attacking the op Wrong. My post was (specifically) addressed at those in this thread complaining that their ability to menace small, weak corps for giggles/profit/just to be ****s. The fact that it also helps people escape mercenaries is simply a side-effect that must be accepted. Hmmm... Not sure how I misunderstood your post, but I suppose I doesn't matter, you know what you meant, and I can accept and understand that. Especially since we are (nominally) on the same side of this issue. Sorry for flamin' ya. ---------------------------------------------- It's not a problem. I could have been more specific.
Mungad Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:04:00 - [125] Originally by: Ki An Common sense usually rules in the end. What game you been playing? lol Wounded Muskrat
Bob Pet	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:05:00 - [126] I think many of you are not looking at the whole picture here. You're too busy simply looking at what imune is currently doing. I can create my own alliance...maybe imune 2.0. This new alliance will have a perma-docked alt in the executor corp and any corp joining the alliance will immediately be kicked or asked to leave. They will also be required to stay docked for the 24 hour period that they can be attacked. This provides the carebear corps with an easy way to get out of the wardecs. It also totally removes any chance of pvp for the corps that start the wardecs. Once someone sets up their alliance with rules similar to above, there will be absolutely no point in declaring war on another corp. for whatever the reason may be. Hence, this exploit either needs to be fixed or corp wardecs should be removed from the game.
Ebodhisatva Gallente hunter killers	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:51:00 - [127] LOL, imune just found a way... like backdoor bandit could say... there is always a backdoor... Now OPEN WIDE Originally by: Dreznengul Only 4 motherships? really? Get with the times, 4 MS and a Titan camping
Iva Soreass Personal Vendetta	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:59:00 - [128] Edited by: Iva Soreass on 27/12/2007 22:59:15 Well played imune, greifers can now be greifed. 5 stars for iMune tbh.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:13:00 - [129] Originally by: Iva Soreass Edited by: Iva Soreass on 27/12/2007 22:59:15 Well played imune, greifers can now be greifed. 5 stars for iMune tbh. Lol.. while sure, a lot of war decs are by corps wanting to grief another, there are plenty of war decs that are corps trying to defend themselves from griefing. Or by corps being hired by a victim corp to attack anotehr to stop griefing (low sec harrassment, etc) _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Iva Soreass Personal Vendetta	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Ofcourse i totaly agree the corp im in is a legit war decing corp so i see where this can screw us up tbh, but meh its still a great idea i love it.

Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:31:00 - [131] Do you people even realise they aren't avoiding a wardec per se, they just make it end faster ? You still get to shoot them for 24 hours after they leave the alliance. Want to keep your war active ? Form your own alliance and wardec that corp the minute they live the alliance, ffs ! That way you have 24 hours of active wardec left from them leaving the alliance, and in 24 hours new war will roll in. It's not that hard to figure, really. And it's much, much better and a hell lot funnier than when the corp simply disbands.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:58:00 - [132] Originally by: Ebodhisatva LOL, imune just found a way... like backdoor bandit could say... there is always a backdoor... Now OPEN WIDE I think this explains why Merc Corps feel as though they are getting shafted.... Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:07:00 - [133] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 28/12/2007 00:07:42 A number of people don't mind that iMune can be abused by 'griefers' because they offer a great service. The service being avoiding the wardec system because it can (omg) be abused by 'griefers'. - DesuSigs
Naito Yumi Chaos From Order	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:27:00 - [134] I am a member of a merc corp, we usually assess our targets abilities and fly comparable ships to make the war fun... we give them a sporting chance. Any corp we target that uses the imune loophole will still find themselves at war 24-48h after they leave imune and will face our full military arsenal. They shall not undock if they try to become imune.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:38:00 - [135] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 28/12/2007 00:39:48 Originally by: Wynona Can some of you use less words? I have a short attention span, thanks. Ok, how's this Your alliance allows people to avoid war decs. Your 4 man alliance has no intention of fighting anyone Therefore you are removing pvp from the game. Edit, atm I am confused as to your motives. Your service is free, but you don't actively recruit to fight the war decs you inherit. I doubt you even undock. Very odd behavior in a pvp game
Wynona Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:55:00 - [136] Thanks Flinx, you're helping out bigtime We allow people to transfer wars, not avoid them. Therefore keeping pvp in the game. Our FAQ's will answer your recruiting and pvp concerns, the link is on top of my sig. Click here for Free War Removal Service
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.28 01:03:00 - [137] Originally by: Wynona Thanks Flinx, you're helping out bigtime We allow people to transfer wars, not avoid them. Therefore keeping pvp in the game. Ok, when I see your 4 man alliance actualy fight these wars, then I will believe that You may even get to recruit some hardcore mercs like us, but atm it seem that you have no intention of fighting anyone. Please go to Corps and alliance killboard resources, and post a link, so we can see your alliance in action Until you kill a single ship under your 1bil banner, most people will think you are just a front that allows corps to avoid fighting.
Ashley Sky Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2007.12.28 02:16:00 - [138] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Please go to Corps and alliance killboard resources, and post a link, so we can see your alliance in action These killboards are amazing resources for us to find mercs to take wars away from, and victims that griefer corps prey upon. Names, intel, activities, systems, all freely given away. What a great tool for us.
Narffy Dominus Imperium	Posted - 2007.12.28 03:43:00 - [139] Just want to say watch out for Ashley's PVP ship. Ashleys PVP BS
Sophia Serpentia	Posted - 2007.12.28 05:36:00 - [140] Originally by: Wynona We allow people to transfer wars, not avoid them. Originally by: Wynona Click here for Free War Removal Service Mmm hmmm.

Alanee'a Unakarakta	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:55:00 - [141] Edited by: Alanee''a Unakarakta on 28/12/2007 08:59:15 Originally by: Sophia Serpentia Originally by: Wynona We allow people to transfer wars, not avoid them. Originally by: Wynona Click here for Free War Removal Service Mmm hmmm. mmm hmm indeed. we all better start using and then petitioning the system, as that seems to be the only way to get rid of it. a disasterous new year to imune. i hope it really sucks for you. ^_^ the only thing good in imune is the nurse logo ;P ------------------ - - - -_^ send me eve-related links, and make ISK'ies @ www.unakarakta.info
Gilat Sumat	Posted - 2007.12.28 09:01:00 - [142] Wowà Let me get this straight. Your Corp wants to fight another Corp but they donÆt want fight you guys so they join an Alliance to void your Wardec then leave and youÆre expecting CCP to correct this? What if they set a long skill and donÆt login. Are you going to demand CCP materialize their ships for a non-contested fight? What if they quit Eve altogether. Are you guys going demand CCP re-activating their accounts to get your moneyÆs worth? Why donÆt you petition CCP to allow you to Wardec NPC Corps; that way you can gank all those potential customers flying around in Rookie ships why youÆre at it as wellà
Alanee'a Unakarakta	Posted - 2007.12.28 09:11:00 - [143] Originally by: Gilat Sumat Wowà Let me get this straight. Your Corp wants to fight another Corp but they donÆt want fight you guys so they join an Alliance to void your Wardec then leave and youÆre expecting CCP to correct this? What if they set a long skill and donÆt login. Are you going to demand CCP materialize their ships for a non-contested fight? What if they quit Eve altogether. Are you guys going demand CCP re-activating their accounts to get your moneyÆs worth? Why donÆt you petition CCP to allow you to Wardec NPC Corps; that way you can gank all those potential customers flying around in Rookie ships why youÆre at it as wellà there is a difference in "sitting out" the war, and avoiding it all together. whats the point of war dec if the fight is mutually agreed? they could all join same corp and pew pew on front of station for sunz and lolz for that. i would approve this in the case where the service excist only to point out this lame mechanic, and thus getting it fixed. ------------------ - - - -_^ send me eve-related links, and make ISK'ies @ www.unakarakta.info
Gane Green Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.28 09:14:00 - [144] Originally by: Gilat Sumat Wowà Let me get this straight. Your Corp wants to fight another Corp but they donÆt want fight you guys so they join an Alliance to void your Wardec then leave and youÆre expecting CCP to correct this? What if they set a long skill and donÆt login. Are you going to demand CCP materialize their ships for a non-contested fight? What if they quit Eve altogether. Are you guys going demand CCP re-activating their accounts to get your moneyÆs worth? Why donÆt you petition CCP to allow you to Wardec NPC Corps; that way you can gank all those potential customers flying around in Rookie ships why youÆre at it as wellà Sorry that your face dont realize the fact that mercs get paid to wardec a corp and deal x amount of damage to the target. Its lame as your face that people dodge the war and puts mercs out of business. I wish that things like your face could read the post and get the jist of the argument. P.S. Your face! If God was a number he would be over 9,000!!!!!!!!!
Sopha Serpentia Core Dynamics	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:02:00 - [145] Originally by: Sophia Serpentia Originally by: Wynona We allow people to transfer wars, not avoid them. Originally by: Wynona Click here for Free War Removal Service Mmm hmmm. HANG ON A MINUTE!!!
Vek NaVek	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:49:00 - [146] Isn't this the same as when DS posted the instructions to Jita trade lag scamming . Oh noes!! I found an exploit that CCP must fix... petition.. "no thats intended behaviour" ... NO WAI!!! hmm... ok intended behaviour eh... we'll see.. BING iMune Empire BING By encouraging mass use of an undesired game mechanic will get said game mechanic fixed. History shows it to be true.
Kayna Eelai Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:50:00 - [147] i don't really know what to think about it... on one side i find it a great way to avoid big meanies to harrass small defenseless pve corps... on the other hand it really sounds like an exploit to me as final note, we all know how "harsh" eve is, and many (mostly pvpers) players like it like that. but the carebear in me sais: if you want it harsh, why don't u try "real life-online"... i mean... i've seen enough wars and harrasment, crap politics, bullying and other bull like that in real life... i don't really need it in a game (which i have to pay) too. and no, i am not leaving and no: u can't have my stuff. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Ga'len The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.12.28 13:11:00 - [148] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 27/12/2007 18:49:21 Originally by: Ga'len Running to an alliance to remove an active war dec on your corp is not an exploit, it's a valid use of in game mechanics. A cowardly, dishonorable action, but at this time, it's valid within the framework of the game. I would like to see something more like a lockdown on actions of a corp when under a war dec. Corp A declares war on Corp B. Neither corp can add members to their respective corp. If a member of corp B wish to leave the corp, they must "surrender" to corp A (use a variation of the current surrender control). Neither corp may change their alliance membership while under the war dec. Thoughts? Very bad idea. Some alliance/corps are under constant war dec. Your solution would strangle them, blocking any possibility of growth. Any big alliance would have some alt corp wardeccing any other alliance to block them from recruiting, You bring up a good point. Well, let's scrap that idea, how about this one? Corp A declares war on Corp B. Corp B joins an alliance, the war dec is now attached to the alliance. Corp B leaves the alliance, the war dec remains attached to Corp B. The alliance keeps the war dec attached to them as well, but for 24 hours, just like a normal alliance war dec ending.
Barashi Nugan Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.12.28 17:43:00 - [149] Originally by: Vek NaVek Isn't this the same as when DS posted the instructions to Jita trade lag scamming . Oh noes!! I found an exploit that CCP must fix... petition.. "no thats intended behaviour" ... NO WAI!!! hmm... ok intended behaviour eh... we'll see.. BING iMune Empire BING By encouraging mass use of an undesired game mechanic will get said game mechanic fixed. History shows it to be true. That's what I started thinking about last night. I've now come to two conclusions: 1. iMune simply wants some kind of infamy. They want to make a mark on Eve in such ways as mo0 and the Privateers. 2. They are really doing a smoke and mirrors effect, and in fact want CCP to correct this issue because they've seen it exploited before against them (or their mains). They tried the usual petition route, and some knucklehead "bug hunter" said it's fine. iMune then thought up the brilliant idea of making it a big public issue and throw this exploit in everyones face, CCP included (and have a few laughs at the ****ed off masses). Genius.
Gary Payne	Posted - 2007.12.28 17:47:00 - [150] just to get this of my back `Bioshock` are not griefers in any sense. we wardec people for fun. we dont do it to make the game unplayable we do it to gain isk the easy way and the way eve should be.. there should be no easy way out. this imune alliance is providing a way for them to get out.. but imune themselfs are nothing but 2 alts sitting in perimeter. if they were something i could shoot at i wouldent mind... but i have better things to do that look for cloaked buzzards.. and you know im right :D



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