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RE: E-Uni War with Racketeer, Dismissal of Member for Undocking

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Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:17:00 - [31] Originally by: umop 3pisdn (...) teaching people to be bad pvpers and carebears is a crime. Eve University teaches team PvP, not solo PvP. That fact is quite well known I would assume. In team PvP our record isnt too bad.
Shep88 Gallente Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:17:00 - [32] Edited by: Shep88 on 27/12/2007 11:17:53 Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Shep88 Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 27/12/2007 11:05:15 Originally by: Kumiko Kobayashi (...) Now to the point of your post. I was dismissed for violation of "Lock-Down" and I've only claimed it as such. (...) Originally by: Kumiko Kobayashi (...) As far as I know, I'm the first to be dismissed for engaging in a pvp fit ship for the purpose of fighting war targets. Again, you were not dismissed for PvPing (as you infact did claim, I quoted above in case you forgot), you were dismissed for breaking a rule and plain out refusing to follow that rule (or any other rule as long as you are not part of a PvP fleet) in the future. I thought Eve-uni was to teach people how to play eve and all. but from what i can see is you only showed this guy how to get and how it feels to be throw out of a corp. ok he may have undocked when he should not of, but can you really say you have never broken the rules? Regrets on your loss mate and find a better corp -Shep88 You cannot teach somebody if he refuses to listen to what you say. Change your teaching method :) when SUBA teaches noobs they learn and follow orders couse they want to not couse a director 'threatens' to remove them. Honestly thou everyone makes a mistake and learns form it. this guy learned to watch local, and maybe to listen to orders and we learned that eve-uni kickes its members for rubbish reasons. -shep88
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:18:00 - [33] Edited by: Ponderous Thunderstroke on 27/12/2007 11:23:02 Originally by: Ozstar Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke The one Uni rule I always hated, the one where I had to spend my online time I'm paying monthly fees on, looking at station environment and/or listening to progressively worse "can we go out?" / "NO" / "Why?" / "SHUT UP AND FOLLOW ORDERS" etc etc etc, as well a threats to destroy and pod people caught out and about, etc. I agree with the OP actually, if you're flying around on your wallet and get shot up, not only should you not get kicked, but you should get laughed at in a most unpleasent way. Not my rules though, so Kumiko, you got what was coming to you, for right or wrong. Honestly, you should have just jumpcloned out to another empire's space and gone on about your business, I've never seen a Uni war where the badguys look for Unistas outside of the Forge -- except for the Privs, who were all over the galaxy like roaches. Was nice to be able to say screw it and jump back to Minmatar or Ammatar space and go back to making a buck when the aggressors were in full nanogrief mode. Ah well. Next drama please. Not everyone has access to JC's, and even fewer people are willing to pod themselves with implants in. Having been in the Uni, I know that they offer JC services and in fact in case of war, suggest people get a couple of JC's. It's not exactly a corp secret, people are encouraged to train IP and get some clones so they won't have to risk their implants. EDIT: A tangent, but I hear that the Rak's redecced for another week. Suckerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs.
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:19:00 - [34] Once agian its baited, RAK are can flipper that can't understand 40 man frig fleets have alot of damps. They just lose at PvP and YaRr, but they get super awesome sweet CNR killmails every once and awhile.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:21:00 - [35] Edited by: Gamesguy on 27/12/2007 11:22:06 Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: umop 3pisdn (...) teaching people to be bad pvpers and carebears is a crime. Eve University teaches team PvP, not solo PvP. That fact is quite well known I would assume. In team PvP our record isnt too bad. Blobbing a 5 man gang with 40 ships isnt "team pvp", just FYI. Its called blobbing. Solo/small gang pvp is where you learn the skills to actually pvp, instead of being drake #234 in a 300 man blob thats about to die to 50 t2 fitted snipers. And having a no-undock rule??!! Are you kidding me? You can laugh at him, ridicule him, but in the end its a t1 cruiser and he was being quite reasonable about it(even got a kill later!), he disobeyed orders, fine, its a stupid order and should've been disobeyed.
Poeas Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:24:00 - [36] I will probably get panned for this, but I feel I have to say something. Though I sympathise with the OP, itÆs hard not to react to a Wardec when you joined a corp for PvP. I have also seen in EU many well organised fleet operations, EU is not playing turtle, but is doing counter Ops on grounds and times of its own choosing, a good strategy. Recently after being referred to EU by many in the noob corp channel as the only real school for those aspiring to PvP from the start of their accounts with Eve Online. I was welcomed and treated with intelligent respect, by a helpful and a fun crowd. I hope I am not too out of line, but the chat log below is the last segment of a lengthy recruitment chat I had with an EU recruitment officer. In it I was informed about the æchain of commandÆ and requirements during a Wardec. This section directly relates to this topic, so this is why I am posting it. Poeas > I will read all the rules Recruitment Officer > Also, while in eve uni, will you follow orders from our leadership and fleet commanders? Poeas > understood Poeas > yes Recruitment Officer > they won't require you to do kamikaze stuff, but Recruitment Officer > they might require you not to go somewhere Recruitment Officer > or not to engage someone Poeas > we have to work as a team :) Recruitment Officer > or to stay docked sometimes Poeas > yes Recruitment Officer > in wartime, you have the option of leaving the uni for a sister corp, but if you don't, that can mean stay docked for hours because our enemies are camping us Recruitment Officer > and we don't want to give them easy kills :) Recruitment Officer > (although usually, WE do the camping :) Poeas > I understand I have lots of training, so that is ok :) Recruitment Officer > got any more questions about eve-uni? Poeas > no I'm fine and I am very happy that you have considered me :) Recruitment Officer > I'm going to accept you (yay!) in a minute Poeas > thank you very much, very appreciated :) Recruitment Officer > before that, I'm going to send you a mail with instructions on how to register on the forums and stuff like that; keep it, read it, do what's inside after I accept you Poeas > will do straight away Recruitment Officer > say hi in corp (not alliance) chat :) I do feel the original OP is splitting hairs of interpretation on the respective policies, to define a position and argument. Leadership is something to be followed, right or wrong, it is not the time to argue over the fine print, it is the time to respect the ethos of the corps decisions. Arguing semantics to prove a point may win a battle of words, but loses the war of allegiance to your corp and team play.
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:27:00 - [37] Its just a Caod drama bomb, they realize they look stupid so try another approach.
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Gamesguy (...) Blobbing a 5 man gang with 40 ships isnt "team pvp", just FYI. Its called blobbing. (...) 40 tech-1 frigates with pilots that have 3 million skillpoints on average against 5 tech-2 fitted battleships / command ships with 20 million skillpoint pilots is pretty balanced in my book. I wont comment any further here, I pointed out that he was not kicked for PvPing or undocking or breaking a rule, he was kicked for stating he would not follow rules again and make the same mistakes in the future. If one is not willing to learn, he has no place in E-UNI.
Seiver D'amross Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:30:00 - [39] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Gamesguy (...) Blobbing a 5 man gang with 40 ships isnt "team pvp", just FYI. Its called blobbing. (...) 40 tech-1 frigates with pilots that have 3 million skillpoints on average against 5 tech-2 fitted battleships / command ships with 20 million skillpoint pilots is pretty balanced in my book. I wont comment any further here, I pointed out that he was not kicked for PvPing or undocking or breaking a rule, he was kicked for stating he would not follow rules again and make the same mistakes in the future. If one is not willing to learn, he has no place in E-UNI. i can see where your comming from but you let them make mistakes, point and laugh then help them up not kick them out _____________________________________________________ I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power
Shep88 Gallente Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:31:00 - [40] Originally by: Seiver D'amross Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Gamesguy (...) Blobbing a 5 man gang with 40 ships isnt "team pvp", just FYI. Its called blobbing. (...) 40 tech-1 frigates with pilots that have 3 million skillpoints on average against 5 tech-2 fitted battleships / command ships with 20 million skillpoint pilots is pretty balanced in my book. I wont comment any further here, I pointed out that he was not kicked for PvPing or undocking or breaking a rule, he was kicked for stating he would not follow rules again and make the same mistakes in the future. If one is not willing to learn, he has no place in E-UNI. i can see where your comming from but you let them make mistakes, point and laugh then help them up not kick them out Or you put a fine on breaking rules. If in fleet and someone jumps when told to hold make them pay 5mil to the Corp wallet, or somthing like that, it works and helps the corp when they make mistakes. -Shep88
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Gamesguy (...) Blobbing a 5 man gang with 40 ships isnt "team pvp", just FYI. Its called blobbing. (...) 40 tech-1 frigates with pilots that have 3 million skillpoints on average against 5 tech-2 fitted battleships / command ships with 20 million skillpoint pilots is pretty balanced in my book. And according to the OP thats not the case at all. He was up against like 4 t1 cruisers/frigs. Quote: I wont comment any further here, I pointed out that he was not kicked for PvPing or undocking or breaking a rule, he was kicked for stating he would not follow rules again and make the same mistakes in the future. If one is not willing to learn, he has no place in E-UNI. Thats how you're supposed to learn. You learn what you can get away with in dock/undock games, how to sneak past camps, how to avoid/fight war targets in empire. You learn none of this by sitting in station till you have 30 buddies ready to take on their 5 man cruiser gang. In addition, its his loss to make! Its not like newbies have a ton of isk to spare, after a couple of losses he would've either learned or went broke, either way he will have learned. Kicking him out of corp for disobeying an order to undock is utterly pointless.
Pitt Bull Caldari Naval Reserve	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:35:00 - [42] Wow, Eve-Uni seems like its run by a bunch of tight assed Carl Sagan wannabes. To the OP: You seem like a "I lead myself" kinda person, why not start your own corp or join one that isn't so pansy?
Seiver D'amross Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:37:00 - [43] Originally by: Pitt Bull Wow, Eve-Uni seems like its run by a bunch of tight assed Carl Sagan wannabes. To the OP: You seem like a "I lead myself" kinda person, why not start your own corp or join one that isn't so pansy? three chears for this guy. that my friend was class _____________________________________________________ I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power
xenoin Racketeers	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:37:00 - [44] Well someone is getting decced for the next wee while :)
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:38:00 - [45] Originally by: Kumiko Kobayashi Kelduum Revaan > ok, then you have to follow orders Kumiko Kobayashi > i only follows those orders pertaining to fleet If you were having this conversation with me, it would have ended here. I think your career path is a solo one. Good luck Mitch www.dark-rising.co.uk
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:43:00 - [46] Bull****, no alt warfare works. RAK is a bunch of non-hack pirates.
Kumiko Kobayashi	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Originally by: Gamesguy (...) Blobbing a 5 man gang with 40 ships isnt "team pvp", just FYI. Its called blobbing. (...) 40 tech-1 frigates with pilots that have 3 million skillpoints on average against 5 tech-2 fitted battleships / command ships with 20 million skillpoint pilots is pretty balanced in my book. I wont comment any further here, I pointed out that he was not kicked for PvPing or undocking or breaking a rule, he was kicked for stating he would not follow rules again and make the same mistakes in the future. If one is not willing to learn, he has no place in E-UNI. You have repeatedly commented on my refusal to learn. And in reference to learning you've referred to team work. Both learning and team work are concepts I love very much. I do hold myself to be a team working learner. In this scenario, there was no FC and no fleet until after the diplomacy director started speaking to me. By the circumstances, I was offered to learn how to follow the order to stay docked as a team. However, I have learned how to do that already, from previous nights. I saw that I could learn more from combat experience than from staying docked. I admit to making a mistake to click the wrong button and unleashing the drones. But I don't see undocking or breaking this unwritten "Lock-Down" rule as a mistake. My argument with the director of diplomacy is hardly manifestation of refusal to learn. Do students not commonly argue with their teachers? Rather, the director's unwillingness to spend the time to reason with me can be seen as a manifestation of refusal to teach.
Shep88 Gallente Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:50:00 - [48] i think you wanted to learn but were denied the chance to. If they think you can learn PVP while in station they are mistake. All you learn is how to be bored, and maybe about spending time with the family IRL. -shep88
Thaar	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:50:00 - [49] LOL All the images going trough my head when i read this. Fat lonely guy: "follow the orders i give you in this spacegame!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i wont!" Fat lonely guy: "You have to or ill kick you out of this superduper corp im a internet DIRECTOR in!" Fat lonely guy: "It is the rules, i made them up and you have to follow them!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i will go to the forums and discuss it there, using many big words!" Lol, anyway, go on
Dirty Den Exploited	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Eskona Runningstar If one is not willing to learn, he has no place in E-UNI. It seems he was willing to learn, yet you were not willing to teach or even let him learn by himself. Get over your own egos.
Seiver D'amross Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Thaar LOL All the images going trough my head when i read this. Fat lonely guy: "follow the orders i give you in this spacegame!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i wont!" Fat lonely guy: "You have to or ill kick you out of this superduper corp im a internet DIRECTOR in!" Fat lonely guy: "It is the rules, i made them up and you have to follow them!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i will go to the forums and discuss it there, using many big words!" Lol, anyway, go on this is for the win _____________________________________________________ I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power
Shep88 Gallente Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Thaar LOL All the images going trough my head when i read this. Fat lonely guy: "follow the orders i give you in this spacegame!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i wont!" Fat lonely guy: "You have to or ill kick you out of this superduper corp im a internet DIRECTOR in!" Fat lonely guy: "It is the rules, i made them up and you have to follow them!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i will go to the forums and discuss it there, using many big words!" Lol, anyway, go on LMAO!!!
Kumiko Kobayashi	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Seiver D'amross Originally by: Pitt Bull Wow, Eve-Uni seems like its run by a bunch of tight assed Carl Sagan wannabes. To the OP: You seem like a "I lead myself" kinda person, why not start your own corp or join one that isn't so pansy? three chears for this guy. that my friend was class If I was running a corp, I'd probably just login every day and say "go get some kills you lazy bumps." And then run off on my own to get some kills. Only every once in a while assembling a gang when there's an enemy gang around. I tend to favor a combination of autonomy and companionship. But when the companions tell me I can't undock, I'll go read dev blogs on the station avatar environment developments for a night or two, and then undock.
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:07:00 - [54] So RAK is trying Goons. Good luck and try agian, there not stupid you are.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:14:00 - [55] Don't lose any sleep over being too brave to be in E-Uni. It's not as if they are any good!
Kumiko Kobayashi	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:26:00 - [56] Originally by: Thaar LOL All the images going trough my head when i read this. Fat lonely guy: "follow the orders i give you in this spacegame!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i wont!" Fat lonely guy: "You have to or ill kick you out of this superduper corp im a internet DIRECTOR in!" Fat lonely guy: "It is the rules, i made them up and you have to follow them!" Skinny lonely guy with glasses: "No i will go to the forums and discuss it there, using many big words!" Lol, anyway, go on I have a +2 enchantment on my keyboard pen that makes it sharper than most authoritative swords. But the pen addresses one argument at a time, while the sword commands an innate summoning ability that can raise all eight elephants that are supporting this plane of existence on their backs since the dawn of time and drop them onto the pen. Where they slide down like butter coating a hot knife. The unsightly burial of the pen will be remembered for 30 seconds or until something else is caught flirting with concepts of reason, ideology, virtues, mores, and intelligent design of artificial universes. But just remember, always bring booze when arguing. If you're having an upper hand, start drinking so the other party won't get more frustrated from being unable to defend its position. And if your buddy is having the upper hand, start drinking, so you have an excuse for using rediculous lines of reasoning unsupported by facts or logic. The bottom line is, drink. Drink like they did before people realized what the liver was.
ApaKaka The.Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:31:00 - [57] I think it's painfully clear that Eve-U is just another of the dime-a-dozen corporations that work from the unwritten rule of: "We are a corp with a lot of contradictory rules and rites members have to know/perform, but essentially this means our members can only have fun and play the game they pay for when WE [ie. the directors] decide they can" Unfortunately, this is how most corporations end up when they grow beyond a certain size.
Tharim Villains	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:43:00 - [58] Originally by: ApaKaka I think it's painfully clear that Eve-U is just another of the dime-a-dozen corporations that work from the unwritten rule of: "We are a corp with a lot of contradictory rules and rites members have to know/perform, but essentially this means our members can only have fun and play the game they pay for when WE [ie. the directors] decide they can" Unfortunately, this is how most corporations end up when they grow beyond a certain size. Heh yah. They are cute tough.
Seiver D'amross Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:48:00 - [59] ish waiting for Kumiko Kobayashi to log on _____________________________________________________ I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power
Don ZOLA Caldari Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.27 12:54:00 - [60] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Originally by: Kumiko Kobayashi Kelduum Revaan > ok, then you have to follow orders Kumiko Kobayashi > i only follows those orders pertaining to fleet If you were having this conversation with me, it would have ended here. I think your career path is a solo one. Good luck Mitch signed. You went against leadership order. You were given chance to remain there if you are willing to listen orders in future. You dont want to listen other orders then those specified - wont work. No one force you to be in eve uni or any other corp, no one force you to do it their way. but if you wanna be part of some corp you have to listen their leadership. end of discussion. if my director/fc/ceo gives me order to selfdestruct ship ill do it no matter ill be liek WTF?. if that order keeps coming often ill prolly be unhappy and search for some other corp but while im in corp ill listen them. eve uni guys are doing all that stuff for free. they dont need smartasses around to make their task harder. so either their way or highway. and that will be in every corp you go in, mess with leadership - bye bye.

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