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Common Sense Suggestion to CCP re missions

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bloomich Trotter's Independent Traders Co	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:14:00 - [1] Edited by: bloomich on 27/12/2007 15:16:19 Eve is a wonderful and complex game. This complexity is great, - However, some parts of complexity exist for no real reason other than to fuel itself. An example of this is agent quality for Lvl 4 missions. There is no real reason for difference in quality - I mean, lvl5 agents are all the same. Why not unify all lvl4 agents to give the same reward so that people spread out insted of blobbing a few systems? Lets be honest here - nobody runs lvl4's at a -17 agent. Just make high sec rewards all the same and players will automatically spread away from lag infested regions. The only reason they are there in the first place is due to a complex agent system that results in people not even knowing what kind of rewards a agent is going to give until they run them. The only indicater is quality ans sec rating, and I would like Quality to be unified. Low sec missions can always use a boost quality wise though. --SIG-- I am aware that my name means reproductive organ in another language, I bought this char for isk with that name without relising that.
SpartanAnton Challenger Logistics Corporation Momentum Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:18:00 - [2] something like this would work to spread out the work load throughout the server also adding more high quality agents would work as well /signed =D
JJ Dutch Caldari Rishathra Unlimited Southern Connection	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:25:00 - [3] I agree as well! Perhaps a quality gradation pending on the system's security rating would work as well. Quality 18 for 0.5 systems, Quality 17 for 0.6 systems, Quality 16 for 0.7 systems, Quality 15 0.8 Systems and so on. Perhaps a big increase for low sec agents like Quality 20 for them all. People will always look for the most lag free environment if the quality of the Agents is the same for all lvl 4 agents in all 0.5 systems in Empire. "When your attack is going well, you have walked into an Ambush."
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:31:00 - [4] While partially true, the low quality agents have several important functions: a) they give more steps to the ladder to get the better agents. Instead of a system with only 5 tiers, with high steps between a tier and the next, the current system gieve a gradual slope to ascend to the top; b) more important, it give a system to differentiate agents in different corporation without denying high level mission. What I mean is that in a Industrial corporation your beast Marketing agent will be a 4 +20, while the best intelligence agent could be a 4 +0, in one of the Navy corporation it would be the reverse. So mostly kill mission type corporations will have the best quality agents in kill divisions, while industrial corps will have best quality agents in the marketing divisions.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Venkul Mul While partially true, the low quality agents have several important functions: a) they give more steps to the ladder to get the better agents. Instead of a system with only 5 tiers, with high steps between a tier and the next, the current system gieve a gradual slope to ascend to the top; b) more important, it give a system to differentiate agents in different corporation without denying high level mission. What I mean is that in a Industrial corporation your beast Marketing agent will be a 4 +20, while the best intelligence agent could be a 4 +0, in one of the Navy corporation it would be the reverse. So mostly kill mission type corporations will have the best quality agents in kill divisions, while industrial corps will have best quality agents in the marketing divisions. Players would gladly accept longer rung training time for less lag, which is what this idea would do. Also, if CCP scrap rewards on sec rating, and insted baise it on pure quality - then empire could just have a fixed quality and low sec could have fixed higher quality (i.e the lvl20 agents) Then there is a REAL visible reward to low sec missions.
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:44:00 - [6] Originally by: bloomich Edited by: bloomich on 27/12/2007 15:16:19 Lets be honest here - nobody runs lvl4's at a -17 agent. Uhm, actually - yeah they do. It is a stepping process for those who want to work their way up. I ran with an agent in one system for a long time working my way up so I can use a higher quality +15 agent in another system. Both systems are lag free and except for a couple of months only one of those systems (low quality agent) had more than 30 people in at a time. I would say the quality isn't the issue if you are trying to spread people out but the location of the agents and ways for people to find them. Sorry, but I can not agree with your position. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:44:00 - [7] Good proposal by the OP, I have a variation that doesn't make all Quality equal: change quality based on number of missions done through this agent by all players (rationale: more people are working for the agent, the individual will get fewer good missions). So the usual chokepoint mission systems will have Agent Quality deteriorate quickly, up to the point where people will move to another system when they notice. In theory, this could result in a blob of people moving around together to run missions at the current highest quality Agent, but in practice I think they will spread out and Quality will remain balanced. Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Argus Greymoore Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:51:00 - [8] Originally by: bloomich Lets be honest here - nobody runs lvl4's at a -17 agent. Just make high sec rewards all the same and players will automatically spread away from lag infested regions. The only reason they are there in the first place is due to a complex agent system that results in people not even knowing what kind of rewards a agent is going to give until they run them. The only indicater is quality ans sec rating, and I would like Quality to be unified. Actually, I run a Level 4 -11 agent by choice. The lag in the system that I was running a Q17 agent out of got to be unbearable, so...I left. I do like your idea, however. Adding additional, better quality agents could work, but then eventually all those systems will get bogged down. Spreading them out would result in the same. Taking away quality would be a good idea, I'd think.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2007.12.27 15:54:00 - [9] Simplifying the quality/reward system sounds like a good idea. Maybe have three qualities, low, average and high, to differentiate corporations better and to allow some more tiers to climb up for a sense of achievement. Convert agents from -10 to +10 quality to average and the others accordingly high and low. Then modify the reward by sec status, increasing the reward by the risks low sec endeavors bring. So agents that will send players only in high sec systems have the lowest reward, agents that send players sometimes into lowsec but are still in a highsec station are average. Agents sitting in lowsec have the highest reward. 0.0 is in the lowsec reward size. To implement this change it needs someone to go through the agent database and adjust qualities to certain fixed levels, like -20, 0 and +20. Then the quality display needs to be changed to show only low/average/high to the players. And the security level of the systems need to be put into a factor for the rewards. It'd be a brainless, annoying job. I don't envy the one who'd have to do it, lol.
Chani Fedaykin	Posted - 2007.12.27 21:57:00 - [10] just wanted to point to a related suggestion dynamic agent quality basically an idea to adjust quality of agents on a dynamic basis (as the title implies ^^) -- eliminate 'stuck' faction standings
Yorlock	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:17:00 - [11] Originally by: bloomich Edited by: bloomich on 27/12/2007 15:16:19 Eve is a wonderful and complex game. This complexity is great, - However, some parts of complexity exist for no real reason other than to fuel itself. An example of this is agent quality for Lvl 4 missions. There is no real reason for difference in quality - I mean, lvl5 agents are all the same. Why not unify all lvl4 agents to give the same reward so that people spread out insted of blobbing a few systems? Lets be honest here - nobody runs lvl4's at a -17 agent. Just make high sec rewards all the same and players will automatically spread away from lag infested regions. The only reason they are there in the first place is due to a complex agent system that results in people not even knowing what kind of rewards a agent is going to give until they run them. The only indicater is quality ans sec rating, and I would like Quality to be unified. Low sec missions can always use a boost quality wise though. I'ds have to you are wrong here. Ill take a lower quality agent over a lagged to hell, unplayable q20 where i loose a raven/week to lag coming thru a mission gate. I am currently on my 7th L4 agent for my 5th Corporation. and have spread myself across 2 empires (Left caldari because of all the lag, Ran Amarr fopr almost a year, and have returned now to caldari) Caldari navy (all agents lagged; 200 system populations common) Homeguard (same as Caldari Navy) Sarum family (gotten bad, lots of farmer names laggin systems) Amarr navy (lack of high sec L4 or posiutive quality.. look at my standing to see how long i used lower quality) Khanid Navy (stuck on L3 agents as no high sec L4) Please stop whining for CCP to nerf more stuff. Its getting lame.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:23:00 - [12] Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 27/12/2007 22:25:08 Originally by: Yorlock Stuff Where in that post were the relevant arguments against the proposal? Edit: And how exactly would it be a nerf? ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:44:00 - [13] /Signed I can see why different quality agents exist as a way to work your way up, but I agree it is overly complex. Need to be way toned down.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.28 12:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 27/12/2007 15:39:51 Originally by: Venkul Mul While partially true, the low quality agents have several important functions: a) they give more steps to the ladder to get the better agents. Instead of a system with only 5 tiers, with high steps between a tier and the next, the current system gieve a gradual slope to ascend to the top; b) more important, it give a system to differentiate agents in different corporation without denying high level mission. What I mean is that in a Industrial corporation your beast Marketing agent will be a 4 +20, while the best intelligence agent could be a 4 +0, in one of the Navy corporation it would be the reverse. So mostly kill mission type corporations will have the best quality agents in kill divisions, while industrial corps will have best quality agents in the marketing divisions. Players would gladly accept longer rung training time to get from, say lvl3 ot lvl4 in return for less lag, which is what this idea would do. Maybe you, I wouldn't like it. Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Each system will become equal as a resource - so this removes the serious lag issues ccp has as people spread out and this will create lots of new markets - regonal markets. Lets be honest here - the only valuble agent systems are the higist quality ones - the rest of them are utter crap. Also, if CCP scrap rewards on sec rating, and insted baise it on pure quality - then empire could just have a fixed quality and low sec could have fixed higher quality (i.e the lvl20 agents) Then there is a REAL visible reward to low sec missions. Let's look it seriously: - it is a Caldari agent problem, born because Caldari have the largest number of very high (17+) level 4 agents in high security, the best LP offers from the main empire factions (modules that are used in PvE, so with a large market), the highest player base. So the proposed solution is to nerf all the agents people has worked on because the Caldari want to have less lag. I don't run Caldari agents and lo and behold, I have very little problems with lag in missions. So change agent, move to other systems and change faction and your problem is resolved without damaging people that is not generating your lag and not using the agents generating the lag.
Akira2501	Posted - 2007.12.28 21:11:00 - [15] Agreed, good idea, although we probably need to leave a few low quality agents as a ôstepping stoneö in standings. (It would be quite difficult to go from a lvl3 agent to a +20 lvl 4. Also low-sec mission rewards need dramatic boost so that the risk/reward is worth it.
Cosmos Serendipity BRAHMA CORP	Posted - 2007.12.28 21:55:00 - [16] Edited by: Cosmos Serendipity on 28/12/2007 21:55:02 Wouldn't it just be as easy to have an agents quality go up as you run more missions sucessfully. Have every agent start off the same for each individual and as your standings raise with that faction so does the agent? Kind of like they get rewarded for you being so good at what you do, which in turn gets you a reward from the better standings? All lvl's of agents start off at something like -17 and each mission adjusts that agents quality something like +.1?
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.12.28 21:59:00 - [17] The nodes are supposed to balance automagically these days. On the bright side, it doesn't seem to work too well. Which means all the filthy mission runners are in certain key locations the rest of us can find them in, or avoid them in. Keep all the **** on one shuffle, thanks. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.28 22:29:00 - [18] Originally by: bloomich Edited by: bloomich on 27/12/2007 15:16:19 Eve is a wonderful and complex game. This complexity is great, - However, some parts of complexity exist for no real reason other than to fuel itself. An example of this is agent quality for Lvl 4 missions. There is no real reason for difference in quality - I mean, lvl5 agents are all the same. Why not unify all lvl4 agents to give the same reward so that people spread out insted of blobbing a few systems? Lets be honest here - nobody runs lvl4's at a -17 agent. Just make high sec rewards all the same and players will automatically spread away from lag infested regions. The only reason they are there in the first place is due to a complex agent system that results in people not even knowing what kind of rewards a agent is going to give until they run them. The only indicater is quality ans sec rating, and I would like Quality to be unified. Low sec missions can always use a boost quality wise though. No way! Cramming 3% of the EVE population into the Motsu area is a great thing! I've suggested this about 32402398 times. CCP is deaf. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.12.28 22:33:00 - [19] Ignoring the usual missionrunner haters. There are atm basically 2 ways to improve the lag on heavy missionrunning systems. 1 is easily implemented i think (mebbe ccp could do it without a patch even) the other would prolly take a patch to implement. 1. make agents hand out missions that are further away when lag or number of players in a system increases, this kinda sux cuz u will have to travel further to do your mission but then again u will suffer less lag. 2. remove all levels but have the agent level up with u the longer u do an agent, this could be implemented from L3 agents and up or something if u don't want people to stick around in their spawning system. So in fact, the longer u do an agent, the better missions u get and the higher the rewards will become. U could also make it so when ur standing with the mission corp increases u can start other agents in other systems at a higher level, so u do 1 agent from L1 to L3 in system A, then move to system B and start of the agent there on L3, u work that one to L4, system gets too crowded, u move to system C and start the agent there at L4. (could still keep the L5's in low sec, make up some story as to why this is) Haven't decided which one i like the best, but i think number 1 would be the most easy solution atm. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Alyth Gallente Dichotomy Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.29 00:13:00 - [20] To be honest I reckon one of the better solutions would be to move every level four agent (possibly the level threes to some extent) with a quality of zero or better to lowsec systems. If you want to make the big bucks then you should damn well have to put your neck on the line to earn them. It's ridiculous how you can make more isk per hour in a 0.8 system with spawn on demand ships than you can ratting in a 0.0 system (and I have done both). Risk vs reward is supposed to be one of EVEs selling points, wheres the risk in highsec missions? -------------------------------------------
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.29 00:35:00 - [21] While I disagree with the idea of setting all agents to the same quality the idea of adding more high quality agents is a good one. It's a good idea that has been frequently put forward. It's a good idea that has been frequently ignored.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.29 00:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Alyth To be honest I reckon one of the better solutions would be to move every level four agent (possibly the level threes to some extent) with a quality of zero or better to lowsec systems. If you want to make the big bucks then you should damn well have to put your neck on the line to earn them. It's ridiculous how you can make more isk per hour in a 0.8 system with spawn on demand ships than you can ratting in a 0.0 system (and I have done both). Risk vs reward is supposed to be one of EVEs selling points, wheres the risk in highsec missions? The issue between ratting and missions isn't the risk in empire it's the lack of reward in nullsec. Thanks to the distribution of true security the majority of 0.0 is effectively worthless. As for moving the agents if you think most people are going to run missions in the shark infested custard that is lo-sec your kidding yourself. Even if LP and completion rewards were doubled ones profit after losses and time wasted would still make running low quality level 4 agents (or even level 3 agents) in empire more profitable. Also a lot of players (indeed statistics, though they often lie, suggest the majority) prefer life in hi-sec and snatching the rug from under them seems a little unfair. Besides if you want to talk risk vs reward you should see the amount of ISK I can make without undocking.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 10:18:00 - [23] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/12/2007 10:20:34 Originally by: Cosmos Serendipity Edited by: Cosmos Serendipity on 28/12/2007 21:55:02 Wouldn't it just be as easy to have an agents quality go up as you run more missions sucessfully. Have every agent start off the same for each individual and as your standings raise with that faction so does the agent? Kind of like they get rewarded for you being so good at what you do, which in turn gets you a reward from the better standings? All lvl's of agents start off at something like -17 and each mission adjusts that agents quality something like +.1? Ever looked the agents effective quality? The skills have an impact there, but the greater part are the successfull missions you have run for him. Originally by: Gaven Blands The nodes are supposed to balance automagically these days. On the bright side, it doesn't seem to work too well. Which means all the filthy mission runners are in certain key locations the rest of us can find them in, or avoid them in. Never implemented. It is something for the future.
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.20 12:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf While I disagree with the idea of setting all agents to the same quality the idea of adding more high quality agents is a good one. It's a good idea that has been frequently put forward. It's a good idea that has been frequently ignored. Yeah its a great idea. We need more high quality agents to reduce lag as people move to different agents to avoid lag. (Mods, rehashing this thread rather than starting a new one, sorry in advance) Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)

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