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The fleeting webber's clear superiority over the T2 web is intended!?

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Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.27 16:08:00 - [1] I filed a bug report about this because, as far as I know it was unique in being clearly inferior to it's named counterpart. Here's the response I got: Originally by: The BugHunter Team This is as designed. You¦ll find on most mods that the best named item is very close if not "better" than the t2 version. T2 requires more skills making training for it increase every mods effectiveness, also since you don¦t need the skills for best named that you do t2, best named is normally more expensive. The best example of these is actually weapons. The first part he says is, the named mod is usually more expensive. This is usually true in my experience, but I can't verify if it is for the webbers right now. The funny thing is, they mention T2 weapons as being cheaper than the named ones. This is often true, but the T2 weapons are also better performing. My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? And, is the Fleeting web, actually more expensive in most regions? I never use T2 webs because they eat more cap and take more CPU to use. Price difference doesn't justify the performance difference and fitting difficulties for zero gain IMO. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
oniplE Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.27 16:16:00 - [2] Originally by: Xaen My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? Remote sensor damp II vs Phases muon sensor damp. Thats the first one i can think of, but there are prolly a dozen more, tracking disruptors, ecm? x
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.27 16:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Xaen The first part he says is, the named mod is usually more expensive. This is usually true in my experience, but I can't verify if it is for the webbers right now. The funny thing is, they mention T2 weapons as being cheaper than the named ones. This is often true, but the T2 weapons are also better performing. My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? And, is the Fleeting web, actually more expensive in most regions? I never use T2 webs because they eat more cap and take more CPU to use. Price difference doesn't justify the performance difference and fitting difficulties for zero gain IMO. T2 webs are available nearly everywhere though where as Fleeting Propulsion webs are not, if something preforms better than T1 then yes it will cost more. If a T1 mod outperforms its T2 equivalent then it will ofc cost more, I fail to see the problem here. A lot of T1 mods are better than T2 not just on a fitting basis are you saying that CCP should change it so T2 > T1 in all modules? You talk about fitting difficulties and preformance difference but then take into account not all regions have steady access to rats/people dropping Fleeting webs. Same goes for the top of the line Target Painter the PWNAGE module which has better stats than T2 and ofc costs more for it. Its not a bug so I fail to see the issue. Its like saying faction gear is T1 but better than T2 therefore nerf faction gear/boost T2?!?! Meet me behind the bushes at midnight! - Cortes
Kaileen Starsong Amarr True Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.27 16:27:00 - [4] T2 web performs just as well as fleeting while being harder to fit(30 cpu vs 22) and way cheaper(1.3-1.5 mil vs 5.5-6). Also, it's fitting inferiority doesn't matter on quite a number of fits, i.e. fits that aren't CPU starved. It's mostly fitting/cap reasons that make best-named mods more expensive than T2. Say, med injector(t2 is worse in vast majority of situations), 10mn mwd(T2 vs Y-T8 cap use and fittings), all kinds of EW(cap use, cpu constraints), 1600mm RT plate vs T2 and so on. It is hardly a unique case with best-named being better than T2 really.
Mara Nobars Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.12.27 16:40:00 - [5] It's true in many cases ... just the other day a buddy noticed the T2 Inertial Stabilizer has the same beneficial effect as the best named T1 version, but the T1 has less of a penalty (sig radius expansion). Many modules are this way. To get the "best", you need to go ratting or buy from somebody who does. The "manufactured" modules can be bought often for less ISK, but are not as good as what you can get from "loot-only" items.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2007.12.27 16:47:00 - [6] I don't see anything particularly wrong with it. For items with low drop rates it does make sense, particularly because t2 everything is very common now. The higher meta level t1 items are rarer so it can be justified that they are better or slightly better in some cases.
Sorted Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.27 17:07:00 - [7] its (the best t1) gonna break alot faster than the T2 Verion. Better stats in general, but worse for HEAT.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong T2 web performs just as well as fleeting while being harder to fit(30 cpu vs 22) and way cheaper(1.3-1.5 mil vs 5.5-6). You missed the part where the T2 web takes MORE capacitor for the same -90%. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Also, it's fitting inferiority doesn't matter on quite a number of fits, i.e. fits that aren't CPU starved. And it does matter on others. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong It's mostly fitting/cap reasons that make best-named mods more expensive than T2. Say, med injector(t2 is worse in vast majority of situations), T2 provides 0.1 more capacitor per second due to it's larger capacity. EFT it. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong 10mn mwd(T2 vs Y-T8 cap use and fittings) T2 10MN has a higher speed boost. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong all kinds of EW(cap use, cpu constraints) Hmm, looks like the multispec is in the same boat as the webber actually. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong 1600mm RT plate vs T2 and so on Yeah, I remember that one now... Originally by: Kaileen Starsong It is hardly a unique case with best-named being better than T2 really. So it's not unique, but it's hardly standard, or even consistent. The T2 warp distruptor has the best range, it's trade off for fitting/cap use. T2 MWD is faster than the best named in all sizes. The T2 weapon turret/launcher provides more higher DPS in all 16 cases. Energy Vampires: All sizes perform the same in terms of cap leech. But range is different and completely inconsistent: Small: Named == T2 Medium: Named > T2 Heavy: Named < T2 wtf? All four sizes of T2 Capacitor batteries provide more cap than the best named. Only the Micro-sized Cap booster provides more capacitor provides more cap in all cases. The Small T2 is better all around. The Medium T2 provides more cap with 74s, 100s, 150s, and 200s than the named one does. The Heavy T2 booster provides more cap with all charge sizes 75+. T2 Neuts are harder to fit, but otherwise perform identically. Cap rechargers: T2 > Named Power diagnostics: T2 > Named Power Diagnostics: T2 > Named Cap Power Relays: Named > T2 Armor Hardeners: T2 > Named All three armor repairers: T2 > Named Energized Plating: T2 > Named Cargo Expanders: T2 > Named Nanos: T2 > Named Reinforced Bulkheads: T2 > Named Reflective Plating: T2 Named So only the T2 variants of certain EWAR modules and CPRs actually perform less well than the best named versions? Why is everything inconsistent? Just increasing the learning curve for the fun of it? -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Xaen My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? You dont get around much, do you? How about the T2 Cap Booster compared to their Electrochemical counterparts? The ONLY difference in all 3 versions is that the T2 version takes more grid and CPU to fit, otherwise they share the same exact stats. Whats your next whine going to include?? "OMG FACTION AND DEADSPACE ITEMS ARE BETTER THAN T2, NERF THEM NOW!!!!!!!"??? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Lt Angus Caldari the united	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Xaen My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? You dont get around much, do you? How about the T2 Cap Booster compared to their Electrochemical counterparts? The ONLY difference in all 3 versions is that the T2 version takes more grid and CPU to fit, otherwise they share the same exact stats. Whats your next whine going to include?? "OMG FACTION AND DEADSPACE ITEMS ARE BETTER THAN T2, NERF THEM NOW!!!!!!!"??? they hold more charges Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Lt Angus they hold more charges lol they dont.... _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Lt Angus they hold more charges lol they dont.... erm yes they do a heavy electro cap injector can hold 4 cap 800s; a t2 can hold 5 log in and find out
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Xaen I filed a bug report about this because, as far as I know it was unique in being clearly inferior to it's named counterpart. Here's the response I got: Originally by: The BugHunter Team This is as designed. You¦ll find on most mods that the best named item is very close if not "better" than the t2 version. T2 requires more skills making training for it increase every mods effectiveness, also since you don¦t need the skills for best named that you do t2, best named is normally more expensive. The best example of these is actually weapons. The first part he says is, the named mod is usually more expensive. This is usually true in my experience, but I can't verify if it is for the webbers right now. The funny thing is, they mention T2 weapons as being cheaper than the named ones. This is often true, but the T2 weapons are also better performing. My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? And, is the Fleeting web, actually more expensive in most regions? I never use T2 webs because they eat more cap and take more CPU to use. Price difference doesn't justify the performance difference and fitting difficulties for zero gain IMO. tbh I prefer T2 to fleetings due to cost 1/5th of the price. sure it uses more cpu, and sure it uses more cap (marginally), but considering that I use T2 webs either on interceptors (cap reduction role bonus), or on big ships, and I have propulsion jamming at 5, the marginal increased use of cap is barely noticeable. --- planetary interaction idea!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:13:00 - [14] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/12/2007 20:14:22 Originally by: Xaen I filed a bug report about this because, as far as I know it was unique in being clearly inferior to it's named counterpart. Here's the response I got: Originally by: The BugHunter Team This is as designed. You¦ll find on most mods that the best named item is very close if not "better" than the t2 version. T2 requires more skills making training for it increase every mods effectiveness, also since you don¦t need the skills for best named that you do t2, best named is normally more expensive. The best example of these is actually weapons. The first part he says is, the named mod is usually more expensive. This is usually true in my experience, but I can't verify if it is for the webbers right now. The funny thing is, they mention T2 weapons as being cheaper than the named ones. This is often true, but the T2 weapons are also better performing. My question to you guys is, what other T2 mods are clearly, measurably inferior to the named versions? And, is the Fleeting web, actually more expensive in most regions? I never use T2 webs because they eat more cap and take more CPU to use. Price difference doesn't justify the performance difference and fitting difficulties for zero gain IMO. I always and exclusively use T2 webs if I can fit them. 7M vs 1.5M says it all. Price differences justify performance difference (which is essntially the same) and fitting differences all right. T2 is typically cheaper then best named unless it's really really clearly superior (like reps/shield boosters where best named is junk); for example, "Arby" RL/ML/HML/Cruises are all more expensive then T2 by factors of magnitude. There are other modules where T2 gives no advantage; shield power relays, etc, etc. All of these are fine; T2 is harder to fit but cheaper and more common. I'm really suprised that you don't know this. Edit: I have no idea why you're whining about inconsistency. After all, it's mind-numbingly trivial to do a show info on things you want to fit on your ship, and you SHOULD use brain to devise ship fit. Rifters!
NightmareX Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Lt Angus they hold more charges lol they dont.... Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I can take 4 Cap Booster 800's Heavy Capacitor Booster II can take 5 Cap Booster 800's So your wrong.
Auron Shadowbane Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2007.12.27 20:13:00 - [16] eccm

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