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Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.30 15:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Imusi Sentinel sounds nice with energy vampires, and drones. I just don't know how strong is it. Can it daze a battlecruiser? Not in a million years. All four of these have pitifully low damage even for frigates, and not even assault ships have the dps to kill a battlecruiser. The only thing any of the EAS can kill on their own is other frigates. I would never use them solo.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Imusi Sentinel sounds nice with energy vampires, and drones. I just don't know how strong is it. Can it daze a battlecruiser? Not in a million years. All four of these have pitifully low damage even for frigates, and not even assault ships have the dps to kill a battlecruiser. The only thing any of the EAS can kill on their own is other frigates. I would never use them solo. Yup - EAS are SUPPORT ships. Theyre like a key to the lock. Without the lock, theyre just dead weight.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Imusi Sentinel sounds nice with energy vampires, and drones. I just don't know how strong is it. Can it daze a battlecruiser? Not in a million years. All four of these have pitifully low damage even for frigates, and not even assault ships have the dps to kill a battlecruiser. The only thing any of the EAS can kill on their own is other frigates. I would never use them solo. sure it won't kill. it will nuke a BC cap tho. that is, if you manage to keep out of web range. just keep in mind that these ships are better in groups and totally useless solo, like combat recons. tested btw --- planetary interaction idea!
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Grimpak keep in mind that these ships are better in groups and totally useless solo] My point exactly.
Ragewaar Eve Liberation Force Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.31 15:54:00 - [35] Kitsune and a Hound took me by surprise in my Crusader before. Took all of 4 seconds for the Kit to remove my targeting ability, with no chance of fighting back 30 secs later i was rather dead EW frigs in small low sec groups REALLY help as long as you dont under-estimate your target, against T2 frigs they should have no chance (as long as your in a group)
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 17:01:00 - [36] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:04:37 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:01:35 Sentinal is a load of crap. Insted of having your pilots in these poor exceuse of a ship, actually put a pilot in a.... you gessed it, proper ew ship and you will be more effective in a gang or even solo, whatever is your fancy. Sentinas small nos/neut range is not useful. Lets be honest here - if it was 20km web then it would make sense. If it had 80% range bonus per level - then it would stand out on its own. And if nos/neut is something you have to do, then use a curse But as it stands, its a waste of time because there are many far better ships that compleatly outclass sentinal. Someone had a good idea for EAS ships, and when it came to designing Amarr's one, they basically had a brainfart. I mean, tell me a single situation that a pilot should be in this poor exceuse of a ship insted of a curse or even anotehr races ew ship? Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.31 17:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:04:37 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:01:35 Sentinal is a load of crap. Insted of having your pilots in these poor exceuse of a ship, actually put a pilot in a.... you gessed it, proper ew ship and you will be more effective in a gang or even solo, whatever is your fancy. Sentinas small nos/neut range is not useful. Lets be honest here - if it was 20km web then it would make sense. If it had 80% range bonus per level - then it would stand out on its own. And if nos/neut is something you have to do, then use a curse But as it stands, its a waste of time because there are many far better ships that compleatly outclass sentinal. Someone had a good idea for EAS ships, and when it came to designing Amarr's one, they basically had a brainfart. I mean, tell me a single situation that a pilot should be in this poor exceuse of a ship insted of a curse or even anotehr races ew ship? Wow - someone fails to see the use of EAS me thinks. Its used in combination of other EAS. Lets say you had my kitsune in gang with you. Id jam him, so he'd do jack all to you. You nos his cap..And then he cant tank either. Thus, leaving the way for his tank to be broken, even with our small dps. Please - Dont post if you dont know what you're talking about.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 17:47:00 - [38] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:49:33 Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:04:37 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:01:35 Sentinal is a load of crap. Insted of having your pilots in these poor exceuse of a ship, actually put a pilot in a.... you gessed it, proper ew ship and you will be more effective in a gang or even solo, whatever is your fancy. Sentinas small nos/neut range is not useful. Lets be honest here - if it was 20km web then it would make sense. If it had 80% range bonus per level - then it would stand out on its own. And if nos/neut is something you have to do, then use a curse But as it stands, its a waste of time because there are many far better ships that compleatly outclass sentinal. Someone had a good idea for EAS ships, and when it came to designing Amarr's one, they basically had a brainfart. I mean, tell me a single situation that a pilot should be in this poor exceuse of a ship insted of a curse or even anotehr races ew ship? Wow - someone fails to see the use of EAS me thinks. Its used in combination of other EAS. Lets say you had my kitsune in gang with you. Id jam him, so he'd do jack all to you. You nos his cap..And then he cant tank either. Thus, leaving the way for his tank to be broken, even with our small dps. Please - Dont post if you dont know what you're talking about. Dude - Answer my question. Name me a single situation where a gang would be beter off with a pilot in a Sentinal insted of a curse or another races ew ship? You see - there is no point in this brainfart of a ship. Next you will be saying stuff like "a noobship is to be used in combination with other noobships........" Its the enbodyment of the Amarr shaft. The Sentinal is a complete waste of time for serious pilots who have a clue about gang pvp. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
D Jed Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.31 17:51:00 - [39] Why would anybody want to fly a Curse when they can fly Carriers?
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 18:24:00 - [40] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 18:25:32 Originally by: D Jed Why would anybody want to fly a Curse when they can fly Carriers? People who want to chase targets. but to answer your poorly constructed ad homina, the Sentinal is outclassed on all levels by other ships, thus defeating any point of flying one. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2007.12.31 18:30:00 - [41] How many people here can't fly a recon??? 0/ quit claiming it's SOOOOO much better to fly a ship some people CAN'T fly. Point is, if I have a newb corp mate that can fly a t1 frigate OR a t2 EAS ship, I'm telling him to bring the CHEAP 18-20 mil EAS that can do something for the gang. Just because the pilgrim is awesome, doesn't mean someone can afford it, fly it, or keep up with a small nano/frig gang. That answer your ignorant question?
Lumpy McUglyface Herd of Wildebeest	Posted - 2007.12.31 18:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 18:25:32 Originally by: D Jed Why would anybody want to fly a Curse when they can fly Carriers? People who want to chase targets. but to answer your poorly constructed ad homina, the Sentinal is outclassed on all levels by other ships, thus defeating any point of flying one. Why would anyone want to fly a caracal over a cerberus? Why would anyone want to fly a raven over a CNR, rifter over a claw? Stop being so short-sighted.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2007.12.31 18:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 18:25:32 Originally by: D Jed Why would anybody want to fly a Curse when they can fly Carriers? People who want to chase targets. but to answer your poorly constructed ad homina, the Sentinal is outclassed on all levels by other ships, thus defeating any point of flying one. So a TITAN and a MOTHERSHIP outclass any battleship I can fly. DAMN, better go play WOW (***YYY) for 2 years so I don't embarrass myself in your eve universe. You're a Forum ASSs.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.31 18:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:49:33 Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:04:37 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 17:01:35 Sentinal is a load of crap. Insted of having your pilots in these poor exceuse of a ship, actually put a pilot in a.... you gessed it, proper ew ship and you will be more effective in a gang or even solo, whatever is your fancy. Sentinas small nos/neut range is not useful. Lets be honest here - if it was 20km web then it would make sense. If it had 80% range bonus per level - then it would stand out on its own. And if nos/neut is something you have to do, then use a curse But as it stands, its a waste of time because there are many far better ships that compleatly outclass sentinal. Someone had a good idea for EAS ships, and when it came to designing Amarr's one, they basically had a brainfart. I mean, tell me a single situation that a pilot should be in this poor exceuse of a ship insted of a curse or even anotehr races ew ship? Wow - someone fails to see the use of EAS me thinks. Its used in combination of other EAS. Lets say you had my kitsune in gang with you. Id jam him, so he'd do jack all to you. You nos his cap..And then he cant tank either. Thus, leaving the way for his tank to be broken, even with our small dps. Please - Dont post if you dont know what you're talking about. Dude - Answer my question. Name me a single situation where a gang would be beter off with a pilot in a Sentinal insted of a curse or another races ew ship? You see - there is no point in this brainfart of a ship. Next you will be saying stuff like "a noobship is to be used in combination with other noobships........" Its the enbodyment of the Amarr shaft. The Sentinal is a complete waste of time for serious pilots who have a clue about gang pvp. Honestly, you cant be for real. I can expend all my 2008's bandwidth of smack on you, and still have more for 2009! If you're in a frig gang....do you think you'll see a curse? ITS A FRIGATE! Frigates have far more benifits generally than a cruiser. Heck, these things may not be great solo, but when with ANY other frigate, theyre an evil combo. A few seconds from a sentinel, and you have no cap (frig/cruiser). With tracking disruptors, they cant hit jack. And with your mate to do the dps, you can kill a wide variety of ships. And if it gets hot...you can warp out. So to quote you, but rejiggled: "The Sentinal is a complete waste of time for pilots who have no clue about gang pvp.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 19:24:00 - [45] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 19:25:29 Come on then - Name me a single gang situation where a Sentinal pilot would make a bigger difference if he was not in a proper dedicated EW ship? have you guys ever flown a sentinal? Its the most useless EW ship around Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.31 19:37:00 - [46] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 19:25:29 Come on then - Name me a single gang situation where a Sentinal pilot would make a bigger difference if he was not in a proper dedicated EW ship? have you guys ever flown a sentinal? Its the most useless EW ship around Thats not the damn point.... In a frigate gang, theyre meant to be fast moving, and be Shock Frigates. How is a curse going to do that? You dont like the sentinel? (Note the right spelling?) then fine. Dont fly it. Its a frigate equivilent of a curse, and if you are in a frig gang, and fly a curse...then its the ship for you. If not, then fine. But stop whining on here like a spoilt brat, and go play a kids game. I mean geez...is it really so hard to not have such a short sighted mind?
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 19:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 19:25:29 Come on then - Name me a single gang situation where a Sentinal pilot would make a bigger difference if he was not in a proper dedicated EW ship? have you guys ever flown a sentinal? Its the most useless EW ship around Thats not the damn point.... In a frigate gang, theyre meant to be fast moving, and be Shock Frigates. How is a curse going to do that? You dont like the sentinel? (Note the right spelling?) then fine. Dont fly it. Its a frigate equivilent of a curse, and if you are in a frig gang, and fly a curse...then its the ship for you. If not, then fine. But stop whining on here like a spoilt brat, and go play a kids game. I mean geez...is it really so hard to not have such a short sighted mind? In a fast moving frig gang - the Sentinal is the Worst EAS, and is a liability with its drones. A cepter is a better alternative and if oyu must have EW - Then you go with any of the other EAS's as the Amarr one is crap. You see - it doesent fit into EAS role properly. Its basically a brainfart and you know it. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.31 19:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Imusi Sentinel sounds nice with energy vampires, and drones. I just don't know how strong is it. Can it daze a battlecruiser? Not in a million years. All four of these have pitifully low damage even for frigates, and not even assault ships have the dps to kill a battlecruiser. The only thing any of the EAS can kill on their own is other frigates. I would never use them solo. You can kill a battlecruiser in a Sentinel. It would probably take 15 minutes but you can do it. All you have to do is be able to go faster than their guns can track and neut them for an amount greater than their max recharge and they will eventually die.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 19:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Imusi Sentinel sounds nice with energy vampires, and drones. I just don't know how strong is it. Can it daze a battlecruiser? Not in a million years. All four of these have pitifully low damage even for frigates, and not even assault ships have the dps to kill a battlecruiser. The only thing any of the EAS can kill on their own is other frigates. I would never use them solo. You can kill a battlecruiser in a Sentinel. It would probably take 15 minutes but you can do it. All you have to do is be able to go faster than their guns can track and neut them for an amount greater than their max recharge and they will eventually die. The BC would slowboat it to gate and jump back, or call for backup. And sentinal drain + damage amount is not exactly that high either in a fast speedy setup due to fitting etc. Bacically in that role, a cepter is better. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.31 19:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 19:25:29 Come on then - Name me a single gang situation where a Sentinal pilot would make a bigger difference if he was not in a proper dedicated EW ship? have you guys ever flown a sentinal? Its the most useless EW ship around Thats not the damn point.... In a frigate gang, theyre meant to be fast moving, and be Shock Frigates. How is a curse going to do that? You dont like the sentinel? (Note the right spelling?) then fine. Dont fly it. Its a frigate equivilent of a curse, and if you are in a frig gang, and fly a curse...then its the ship for you. If not, then fine. But stop whining on here like a spoilt brat, and go play a kids game. I mean geez...is it really so hard to not have such a short sighted mind? Your sig made me cringe sorry man lol. on topic: Compared to a force recon in a large gang their use is limited. But they shine in a ceptor gang creating one hell of a dangerous quick gang. Good points: Cheap force recon Fast Agile less skill intensive Bad points: Less EW than force recons Tank less than force recons need to think of a few more.. feel free to add to the good/bad points. Im not thinkin well atm.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.31 20:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 19:25:29 Come on then - Name me a single gang situation where a Sentinal pilot would make a bigger difference if he was not in a proper dedicated EW ship? have you guys ever flown a sentinal? Its the most useless EW ship around Thats not the damn point.... In a frigate gang, theyre meant to be fast moving, and be Shock Frigates. How is a curse going to do that? You dont like the sentinel? (Note the right spelling?) then fine. Dont fly it. Its a frigate equivilent of a curse, and if you are in a frig gang, and fly a curse...then its the ship for you. If not, then fine. But stop whining on here like a spoilt brat, and go play a kids game. I mean geez...is it really so hard to not have such a short sighted mind? In a fast moving frig gang - the Sentinal is the Worst EAS, and is a liability with its drones. A cepter is a better alternative and if oyu must have EW - Then you go with any of the other EAS's as the Amarr one is crap. You see - it doesent fit into EAS role properly. Its basically a brainfart and you know it. Ok - Obviously you're obviously lacking a few brain cells, so ill do my best to help you out here. In a fast moving gang, the sentinel is the worst EAS? Whats that got to do with a fast moving gang? lol. As forliability with drones....so why do i always see Ishkurs on frig gang mails? Or why do i see Ishtars in nanogangs? As for other races EAS.... A Keres can dampen and prevent hostile actions. Can also scram to stop it fleeing - Granted a ceptor does the second role better, but none the less, can damp damn well. A Kitsune can jam a target, although luck based. In either case, removes any non-drone dps (other than FoF missiles). A Hyena is a ceptor replica, but on the basis of webbing, rather than scrambling. None of the above have ways around a large targets tank. All they can do is stop them killing/runing. so it'll be a stalemate. Enter the Sentinel. With its neuts, it can sap their cap, and in effect, turn off their tank, allowing the gangs rather small dps to do the job. So you know what i know? That you know jack all about EAS, probably dont even fly them, and to that extent, most likely dont even fly a curse/pilgrim. \|And pray tell, how is a ceptor a better alternative? You shouldnt be tackling in your Sentinel in any case. Your mids should be tracking disruptors. None should be scramblers, or webbers. A ceptors role is to tackle. Yours is to neutralize and tracking disrupt.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 20:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/12/2007 19:25:29 Come on then - Name me a single gang situation where a Sentinal pilot would make a bigger difference if he was not in a proper dedicated EW ship? have you guys ever flown a sentinal? Its the most useless EW ship around Thats not the damn point.... In a frigate gang, theyre meant to be fast moving, and be Shock Frigates. How is a curse going to do that? You dont like the sentinel? (Note the right spelling?) then fine. Dont fly it. Its a frigate equivilent of a curse, and if you are in a frig gang, and fly a curse...then its the ship for you. If not, then fine. But stop whining on here like a spoilt brat, and go play a kids game. I mean geez...is it really so hard to not have such a short sighted mind? Your sig made me cringe sorry man lol. on topic: Compared to a force recon in a large gang their use is limited. But they shine in a ceptor gang creating one hell of a dangerous quick gang. Good points: Cheap force recon Fast Agile less skill intensive Bad points: Less EW than force recons Tank less than force recons need to think of a few more.. feel free to add to the good/bad points. Im not thinkin well atm. Oh yeah - you are correct that the EAS concept is a valid one. What I am questioning is the point of Sentinal. It is the enbodyment of Amarr shaft to get the crappyist thing around, and this is no exception. The lamers are changing my question from one of "what is point of sentinal" to "what is point of EAS". I have no problems with EAS, but I do have issue swith sentinal. Just like the Sacriledge was compleatly useless before CCP fixed it, the Sentinal is pretty useless now. The same people who never flew a sacri back then said "oh its ok, its meant to be like that, its suppost to be part of hac gang etc etc" and compleatly missed the point. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.31 20:11:00 - [53] Theyre EAS.....Theyre not meant to kill things fast.... Thats like saying, i want my dictor to have BC damage. Its meant to drop the bubble, pwn, and get out. And your answer to that, would be juts like mine now. EEEH AAAH! WRONG ANSWER!
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.31 20:22:00 - [54] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Bacically in that role, a cepter is better. No, it isn't. You can escape an interceptor in pretty much anything simply by MWDing off the grid. Sentinel's cap drain prevents you from doing that. Also, basically anything cruiser sized and up can permatank an interceptor, so it will never kill its target. It's also far easier to call for help against a solo interceptor than against a solo Sentinel, it will take the interceptor far longer to kill you. There are very few ships that can both catch up to a Sentinel and stay there through the cap drain. It's quite good solo.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.31 20:57:00 - [55] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Jonny JoJo Bacically in that role, a cepter is better. No, it isn't. You can escape an interceptor in pretty much anything simply by MWDing off the grid. Sentinel's cap drain prevents you from doing that. Also, basically anything cruiser sized and up can permatank an interceptor, so it will never kill its target. It's also far easier to call for help against a solo interceptor than against a solo Sentinel, it will take the interceptor far longer to kill you. There are very few ships that can both catch up to a Sentinel and stay there through the cap drain. It's quite good solo. have you even bothered to fly ina frig gang? The point of a frig gang is to race about, catch a guy and gank him with numbers and move on. Sentinals would get their asses handed to them vs cepters, vs cruisers and vs anything else that real people fight (other than noobships) Sentinals shut down tank? Have you even done the maths on how long it would take to shut down the cap of a target? Your sentinal is chasing a cepter, and by the time the cepter has no cap, your sentinal is already dead. In a gang situation, if the gang takes so long to kill a target that a sentinal is viable, then the gang sucks. You guys are as bad as the the guys who said the original Sacriledge was good in gangs. The original Sacriledge is now acknoledged to be the worst hac design ever, and CCP have fiexed it. Look back in eve forums - if CCP farts, there are people acknoledging that it smells of roses, ready to call anyone else an idiot that cannot see the obvious. I am saying that Sentinal is Worst EAS design, and CCP should actually make it useful. Do you deny this? Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.31 21:27:00 - [56] Originally by: Jonny JoJo have you even bothered to fly ina frig gang? The point of a frig gang is to race about, catch a guy and gank him with numbers and move on. We're talking about frig gangs now? My original post was about a Sentinel killing a battlecruiser solo. My follow up post was also geared towards killing bigger ships solo with smaller ships. Quote: Sentinals would get their asses handed to them vs cepters, vs cruisers and vs anything else that real people fight (other than noobships) Against interceptors, the BEST outcome for the interceptors is that they all manage to get away. A Sentinel can swat an inty's cap in one cycle, at which point it's going to die absurdly quickly. A Hyena or Kitsune will generally be better in larger gangs, but I wasn't talking about that. Quote: Sentinals shut down tank? Have you even done the maths on how long it would take to shut down the cap of a target? Are you even reading my posts? I have said more than once that shutting down a large target's cap will take a very long time. The point was that an interceptor will NEVER break a BCs, tank, and it's far easier to call for help on or escape an interceptor (or any other frigate) because they take far longer to kill you than a Sentinel and are much easier to escape than a Sentinel Quote: Your sentinal is chasing a cepter, and by the time the cepter has no cap, your sentinal is already dead. In a gang situation, if the gang takes so long to kill a target that a sentinal is viable, then the gang sucks. Two neuts on a Sentinel will set an interceptor to zero cap instantly. Try again. You can give a blasteranis a 10-sec head start on you at 5km away and you will still beat it. Quote: You guys are as bad as the the guys who said the original Sacriledge was good in gangs. The original Sacriledge is now acknoledged to be the worst hac design ever, and CCP have fiexed it. Look back in eve forums - if CCP farts, there are people acknoledging that it smells of roses, ready to call anyone else an idiot that cannot see the obvious. People who are talking about the original Sacrilege are talking about the original Sacrilege, the one that existed TWO changes ago. Not the pre-Revelation version. Quote: I am saying that Sentinal is Worst EAS design, and CCP should actually make it useful. Do you deny this? Considering that sensor dampeners are complete **** right now, the Keres is much worse. It has no role than an interceptor can't do better.

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