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for the last time ammos usage IS NOT AN ISK sink

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Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.01 01:36:00 - [1] isks sink removes ISKS from the game: taxes, goods bought from npc, insurance fee etc. ships blowing up remoes SHIPS from the game not isks. mining is not an isk faucet its a mineral faucet. person a mines some mineral person b pays 10 m isks for minerals person b uses them to make a thanatos person b sells thanatos for 1 bil to person c person c blows up thanatos HE DIDNT MAKE 1bil MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR because person b has the 1 bil and person a has 10 m WTF!!! stop it with this non-thinking ffs ISK SINK HAS TO REMOVE ISK FROM THE PLAYERS ISK FAUCET HAS TO ADD ISK TO THE PLAYERS end communication its just annoying when i see a big post (read "i dont have a doctorate in economics") that supposes to be a long good read and starts with oh no mining is an
Shinnen Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2008.01.01 01:55:00 - [2] yes, but why make a new thread about it! :/ -- Banned since 2005, back by popular demand! They said it wouldn't happen!!
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2008.01.01 01:57:00 - [3] Rage much? _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.01 01:58:00 - [4] Faction ammo IS a isk sink. It costs isk to create, which is deleted from the isk total in the game. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Daphne Oboe	Posted - 2008.01.01 02:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas for the last time Promise? But yeah, you're right..... sort of.....
Meloric	Posted - 2008.01.01 02:09:00 - [6] True, it is more of a bidet.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.01.01 02:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Faction ammo IS a isk sink. It costs isk to create, which is deleted from the isk total in the game. This. Someone uses ammo other than faction? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
bystander Lightning Fish	Posted - 2008.01.01 02:18:00 - [8] The fact that person C had 1billion to spend indicates the economy is healthy. Honestly if everyone were playing a zero inflation game I don't think you'd enjoy it half as much.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.01 03:54:00 - [9] actually the person blowing up made more money enter the game in the form of insurance, thus mining is an isk tap/faucet too. -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2008.01.01 03:58:00 - [10] Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 01/01/2008 03:58:37 Actually, minerals have monetary value. The 'money' in a market isn't the whole economy, materials and exports are also part of the economy. Anything that destroys those minerals (or fires those minerals at high velocity at things) is essentially an 'isk sink'. Miner sells his minerals to manufacturer, buys brand new hulk. (tax taken from sales) Manufacturer sells his ammo to pirate, sends money to his pvp alt. (tax taken from ammo sales) Pirate kills miners shiny new hulk. Pvp alt kills pirate, pirates ammo blows up. Miner buys new mining ship. (rinse repeat) So I'd say ammo is working just fine as part of the cycle of life. <cue elton john song> _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 01/01/2008 03:58:37 Actually, minerals have monetary value. The 'money' in a market isn't the whole economy, materials and exports are also part of the economy. Anything that destroys those minerals (or fires those minerals at high velocity at things) is essentially an 'isk sink'. Miner sells his minerals to manufacturer, buys brand new hulk. (tax taken from sales) Manufacturer sells his ammo to pirate, sends money to his pvp alt. (tax taken from ammo sales) Pirate kills miners shiny new hulk. Pvp alt kills pirate, pirates ammo blows up. Miner buys new mining ship. (rinse repeat) So I'd say ammo is working just fine as part of the cycle of life. <cue elton john song> But as the actual ISK stays in the economy, it's irrelevant. Unless you factor in that tiny margin of taxes. An ISK sink is where the currency is taken out of the economy entirely. But seriously, I gave up on explaining this to people a long time ago.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:39:00 - [12] Edited by: Hannobaal on 01/01/2008 05:40:02 Originally by: bystander The fact that person C had 1billion to spend indicates the economy is healthy. Honestly if everyone were playing a zero inflation game I don't think you'd enjoy it half as much. There is near 0 inflation in Eve. And people having lots of ISK is not, in of itself, relevant to the issue of whether there is inflation in Eve.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.01 06:26:00 - [13] I believe it is taxes that form the isk sink where ammo is concerned
Snarker Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.01 06:55:00 - [14] The isk sink for faction ammo occurs when you buy it from a LP store, not when you lose it (This is assuming it costs isk at an LP store, never done it myself :) ). ----------------------------------------
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.01 07:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Snarker The isk sink for faction ammo occurs when you buy it from a LP store, not when you lose it (This is assuming it costs isk at an LP store, never done it myself :) ). yes, it costs isk and lp to buy faction ammo, along with regular ammo to convert.
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.01 08:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas isks sink removes ISKS from the game: taxes, goods bought from npc, insurance fee etc. ships blowing up remoes SHIPS from the game not isks. mining is not an isk faucet its a mineral faucet. person a mines some mineral person b pays 10 m isks for minerals person b uses them to make a thanatos person b sells thanatos for 1 bil to person c person c blows up thanatos HE DIDNT MAKE 1bil MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR because person b has the 1 bil and person a has 10 m WTF!!! stop it with this non-thinking ffs ISK SINK HAS TO REMOVE ISK FROM THE PLAYERS ISK FAUCET HAS TO ADD ISK TO THE PLAYERS end communication its just annoying when i see a big post (read "i dont have a doctorate in economics") that supposes to be a long good read and starts with oh no mining is an What if he built the ship himself and then got it destroyed instead of selling it?
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.01 09:08:00 - [17] Edited by: Xonkra on 01/01/2008 09:09:04 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas person a mines some mineral person b pays 10 m isks for minerals person b uses them to make a thanatos person b sells thanatos for 1 bil to person c person c blows up thanatos HE DIDNT MAKE 1bil MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR because person b has the 1 bil and person a has 10 m PERSON C GAINED 300mil ON INSURANCE ZOMG!!! WTF!!! -indeed fixed Originally by: Illyria Ambri No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like frog clearing throat "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.01 09:47:00 - [18] To OP Using t1 Ammo is not a isk sink - BUT MANUFACTURING T1 AMMO IN NPC STATIONS IS It costs Factory Fees to create ammo - which is removed from game. So indirectly is it a isk sink. Also indirectly, one can argue it being a isk faucet because using ammo creates insurance by blowing people up. Meh - anyone can argue anything these days on eve forums....... Personally, I blame Amarr Nerf as isk faucet Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Snarker Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.01 09:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas isks sink removes ISKS from the game: taxes, goods bought from npc, insurance fee etc. ships blowing up remoes SHIPS from the game not isks. mining is not an isk faucet its a mineral faucet. person a mines some mineral person b pays 10 m isks for minerals person b uses them to make a thanatos person b sells thanatos for 1 bil to person c person c blows up thanatos HE DIDNT MAKE 1bil MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR because person b has the 1 bil and person a has 10 m WTF!!! stop it with this non-thinking ffs ISK SINK HAS TO REMOVE ISK FROM THE PLAYERS ISK FAUCET HAS TO ADD ISK TO THE PLAYERS end communication its just annoying when i see a big post (read "i dont have a doctorate in economics") that supposes to be a long good read and starts with oh no mining is an What if he built the ship himself and then got it destroyed instead of selling it? Still an isk faucet, he just cuts out the transfer of isk. Instead of the isk being transferred to someone else, he keeps it. Makes no difference, isk still enters the game only from the insurance. ----------------------------------------
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.01 11:49:00 - [20] Indeed. Many people wrongly use the term ISK to mean Assets. Still amounts to the same thing though. Ships turn into metal scraps, people have less. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Protheroe	Posted - 2008.01.01 12:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas mining is not an isk faucet its a mineral faucet. person a mines some mineral person b pays 10 m isks for minerals person b uses them to make a thanatos person b sells thanatos for 1 bil to person c person c blows up thanatos HE DIDNT MAKE 1bil MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR Mining qualifies as an ISK faucet in this example, for the reason Snarker gave. Person A mines some minerals. (A:0 B:10M C:1B = 1.01B Total) Person B pays 10m ISK for minerals (A:10M B:0 C:1B = 1.01B Total) Person B uses them to make a Thanatos (A:10M B:0 C:1B = 1.01B Total) Person B sells Thanatos for 1B to Person C (A:10M B:1B C:0 = 1.01B Total) Person C Blows up Thanatos, receving the default 40% Baseprice insurance payout; 338M for a Thanatos (A:10M B:1B C:338M = 1.348B Total) If the minerals are manufactured into a ship, in this case a Thanatos, at least 338M ISK is introduced into the economy when the ship is lost. Only if the minerals are turned into modules or some other uninsurable item does the mining that produced them not qualify as an ISK faucet. Refinable loot also falls into this category if it is reprocessed and the minerals are sold on to a ship manufacturer. What percentage of minerals in the game end up being manufactured into ships is probably a question for Dr. EyjoG, but I imagine it's quite high.
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2008.01.01 14:39:00 - [22] I believe that ammunition can be classed as an ISK sink... It's a minute sink and it tends to be connected to so many faucets that its value is obscured however... Player A mines ore (an ISK faucet), refines it into usable minerals and uses them and his researched BPO (an ISK sink both in original purchase and in research) to make them into ammunition (sinking a tiny bit more in Factory fees). He puts this ammunition onto the market and it's bought by player B (ISK neutral bar brokers and sales tax). Player B loads up his ship with all of this ammunition and proceeds to burn it all in an attack on an asteroid (which can't be destroyed in that way). ISK entered the system through mining and left through the barrels of Player B's guns. Had Player B shot at a bountied rat rather than an asteroid he would have gained ISK - but from the bounty faucet - regardless the ammo is still lost and in itself contributed nothing. ISK (in many forms, from raw ISK to minerals) enters the system through faucets (mining in this case) and leaves through sinks. Once you've fired it there is no way to get hold of the minerals used to make the ammunition, the minerals have left to game entirely. Ammunition is therefore an ISK sink. On its way out it may have incidentally openned a faucet but in itself it is a sink. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.01 15:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Taua Roqa actually the person blowing up made more money enter the game in the form of insurance, thus mining is an isk tap/faucet too. wow, you make a lot of sense, as it's fair to say ships are built from mined minerals, those minerals do eventually end up injecting isk into the economy! waves to self -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Jonny JoJo Faction ammo IS a isk sink. It costs isk to create, which is deleted from the isk total in the game. This. Someone uses ammo other than faction? Well, I don't know. I use Barrage mostly. Or T1 if I'm ganking some random noob. Rifters!
Hsallie Gallente V i r u s	Posted - 2008.01.02 04:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Jacob Holland I believe that ammunition can be classed as an ISK sink... It's a minute sink and it tends to be connected to so many faucets that its value is obscured however... Player A mines ore (an ISK faucet), refines it into usable minerals and uses them and his researched BPO (an ISK sink both in original purchase and in research) to make them into ammunition (sinking a tiny bit more in Factory fees). He puts this ammunition onto the market and it's bought by player B (ISK neutral bar brokers and sales tax). Player B loads up his ship with all of this ammunition and proceeds to burn it all in an attack on an asteroid (which can't be destroyed in that way). ISK entered the system through mining and left through the barrels of Player B's guns. Had Player B shot at a bountied rat rather than an asteroid he would have gained ISK - but from the bounty faucet - regardless the ammo is still lost and in itself contributed nothing. ISK (in many forms, from raw ISK to minerals) enters the system through faucets (mining in this case) and leaves through sinks. Once you've fired it there is no way to get hold of the minerals used to make the ammunition, the minerals have left to game entirely. Ammunition is therefore an ISK sink. On its way out it may have incidentally openned a faucet but in itself it is a sink. By your definition every aspect of the game is both an isk sink and faucet. As mining usually results in putting something on the market(Tax), and something getting blown up. For the term to be usefull you need locate the final link in the chain. With this in mind killing rats ,doing missions and insurance are the ONLY isk Faucets, and trading factories fee's ect is the only isk sinks.

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