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Steal is Steal

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LynxHUN	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:18:00 - [1] Hi all! At now anyone can salvage then loot anyone's wreck and it's not stealing, i think it's need to be changed.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:23:00 - [2] Garbage stealing! That's the basic idea... Does that happen that often to you? People salvage stuff behind you before you end your missions? Or is it belt rats salvaging? Most people leave the wrecks behind... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:28:00 - [3] Let me get this straight, if I salvage a wreck you have created, I can take the loot also without getting flagged??? That should be petitioned as a serious bug. But there is no salvage in missions. Salvage is created when you "mine" the wreck, just like mining roids. So, nothing is stolen (if they only salvage). But if they steal (take the loot or whatever is in a can you own), then they get flagged for you to play police.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:30:00 - [4] Doesn't the can have an owner? -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Doesn't the can have an owner? As far as i know, yes. Thats why I don't quite get the OP. The Quote: At now anyone can salvage then loot anyone's wreck does confuse me. First of all, there is no wreck left, when it has been salvaged, just the loot can.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:59:00 - [6] Maybe there's some bug in this? Does the can have the right owner if the owner is no more in the system when the wreck is salvaged? (just like not being able to tractor beam a wreck of a gang member that left the system or stuff like that, the ownership and stealing flag system seems to be a bit related to people being in the same system, but I may be mistaking) -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:29:00 - [7] if you blow up someone else's wreck however you can get concorded iirc Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruting
Arcayan	Posted - 2008.01.04 23:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes First of all, there is no wreck left, when it has been salvaged, just the loot can. Sounds like OP needs to "Add Cargo can to overview". @OP: Once a ship is salvaged, the wreck disappears. But any loot gets put into a cargo container. This loot belongs to you. If someone else takes the loot, they are stealing. I would also ask if you are aware that wrecks dissapear naturally after an hour or two?
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.01.05 02:25:00 - [9] Folks, you're acting like the OP is an idiot, and he isn't. Yes, when you steal from a can it's flagged, and when you salvage a wreck it creates a can with the loot inside... what you're missing is that yes, even though salvage may belong to somebody, the can that is created with loot left behind is created to belong to whoever salvages the wreck, not necessarily whoever owned it. So, somebody can come up, salvage the wreck (which is legal for some reason) and take all your rig components, and then since the can is created under their ownership, not only can they take it, but if for whatever reason they trick you into taking it, they can kill you. What the OP is suggesting is that we make salvaging somebody else's wreck a flag (seems fair to me, if they don't come back to get it flagging isn't a problem anyway) and that loot containers should belong to whoever owned the wreck before salvage occurred. (So that if somebody comes along and also/later tries to take the loot, it's another steal flag.) Makes sense to me. Packtu'sa Starbase Fuel Calculator Only hot people can be in my sig!
Arcayan	Posted - 2008.01.05 08:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Packtu'sa Yes, when you steal from a can it's flagged, and when you salvage a wreck it creates a can with the loot inside.... Going well so far. Originally by: Packtu'sa what you're missing is that yes, even though salvage may belong to somebody, Hmm. Not quite. Despite what you would like the game to be, salvage does not belong to anybody. You can argue all day that it should be the property of whoever destroyed the ship but it just isn't. The game rules dictate that anybody can salvage a wreck regardless of who destroyed the ship. Originally by: Packtu'sa the can that is created with loot left behind is created to belong to whoever salvages the wreck, not necessarily whoever owned it. Not in my experience - and I tried it just now to be sure. I flew to an asteroid field in my salvager and found a wreck destroyed by someone else. The wreck contained loot. I salvaged the wreck, picking up some paltry item like metal scraps and then I went back to the cargo container to take the loot. A popup message informed that I was about to steal from "player X" and would I like to continue. I chose no. (anyone able to take down 3 guristas despoilers is quite obviously not to be trifled with..) If you've seen anything different, then I would submit a petition as it would be a fault. The moral of the story is: Stealing loot is stealing. The victim is given kill rights and the thief receives a security standing loss. Salvaging wrecks however is not a crime. There are countless threads dozens of pages long in other sections of the forum arguing this topic back and forth. At the end of the day though, CCP implemented it the way they wanted. My guess is they implemented it in a way that would promote removing wrecks as quickly as possible and thus reducing load on the server and with this in mind, I doubt they'll change it.
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.01.06 03:54:00 - [11] You don't lose security standing for stealing, it's just the 15 minute timer. Crusades: Security Status
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2008.01.06 04:45:00 - [12] Is this topic still going? See sig link for the collection. Everything you could ask about wrecks! People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions?
LynxHUN	Posted - 2008.01.13 10:46:00 - [13] I speak about that when im makeing a mission or after i go back to salvage my misson, not that when somebody left wrecks in belt. I already send an petition the gms told me go to forum and post it. And yes if any1 else slavage ur wreck he /she can after loot it.
Oldin Kinrod	Posted - 2008.01.13 23:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Oldin Kinrod on 13/01/2008 23:20:30 Have you read this thread? CCP have stated that people can be probed out of missions. This is an intended game mechanic. The chances of you getting probed in a mission/deadspace is around 100 less than if you were just sitting in a safespot. CCP have also stated that they will not kill a profession, and have no plans to change the salvage mechanics atm. Salvage is just that, salvage. There are many ways to combat this. They are stated numerous times in the threads linked in the thread I have given you. Drones are usually the first thing that probers will look for. Sitting outside the gate to a mission is another.Doing missions in a mission hub is a big help to probers (fish in a barrel). As for the salvage itself. You have no rights to it, other than the right to use a tractor beam on it. This, once again, has been reiterated across the board in many threads. People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions?
Salia WinterDrake Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.15 08:00:00 - [15] I agree with the majority here: - If the wreck contains salvage items, then they can be acquired by anyone; salvage has always been a 'first come first served' profession! However, - If the wreck contains loot items (modules etc) then those are flagged for the pilot who was awarded the 'kill'. Taking these, even from an after-salvage container should be flagged as stealing. Additional idea: Maybe a cargo container could be considered fair game if: - Wreck owner logs off (gone more than 10mins say, to avoid disconn problems) - 5 mins before wreck disappears... "Its breaking up! You only have limited time to access any items before they're destroyed!" ---------------- Salia WinterDrake Tunnelling Through a Firewall: VPN Walkthrough
Ikonz Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:39:00 - [16] It's not a bug and it's allowed by the game, but I agree that this has to be changed... I've had it a few times now that people warp in to my mission deadspace and salvage my bs wrecks, while I want to do that myself. Why allow people to do it? Effectively it's the same as taking stuff from someones wreck, you just take rigs stuff.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Salia WinterDrake Maybe a cargo container could be considered fair game if: - Wreck owner logs off (gone more than 10mins say, to avoid disconn problems) - 5 mins before wreck disappears... "Its breaking up! You only have limited time to access any items before they're destroyed!" I'm all for that. Extend to to wrecks as well, that'd solve many problems. For example, as long as you're not more than 5 minutes out of the mission deadspace, the wrecks and loot are reserved for you(i.e. flagging) - after that, they're fair game. I agree that anyone should be able to salvage, but the mission runner should at least be given a chance to salvage, which currently is not the case, the system favors the intruder. (Note: I'm not sure, but I don't think there are many ships or fittings that allow for on-the-run salvaging. Even if, a ship shot at 50Km leaves a wreck that isn't salvageable for some time.) -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind (Note: I'm not sure, but I don't think there are many ships or fittings that allow for on-the-run salvaging. Even if, a ship shot at 50Km leaves a wreck that isn't salvageable for some time.) CCP just added 4 of them, they're called marauders. CCP devs and designers have also made it very clear that salvage is a first come, first served game mechanic and fully intended to stay that way. Deal with it, cause it's not likely to change. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.

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