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fjoesne
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Posted - 2008.01.05 14:08:00 -
[1]
Hello.
I created a gallente character some time ago and i have been playing with a friend who created a caldari character shortly after me.
I am currently completely useless when it comes to tanking and as a damage dealer. My caldari friend is doing over 3 times the amount of damage that i do and can take 4-5 times as much damage. He has missiles and shields and i know that missiles are much better than hybrids when it comes to assault, but defence too? this is not just a little bit better. its like day and night.. I am completely useless at this stage and i wonder what the heck i have been doing wrong. can someone please give me some pointers either when it comes to tanking or damage dealing? is there nothing that a gallente can do that caldari cant? it seems to me that gallente is generally the wrong way to go.. unless they start training caldari ships from the beginning!
this is kinda frustrating, tried just about everyting on EFT and no matter what i do i cant really get close to any caldari setup when it comes to DPS and defence ratings... and what else is there? is gallente supposed to do mining only or something? :(
http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTEyNTI4MDE3MA%3D%3D
Can anyone tell me if i am missing something vital?
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Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.05 14:14:00 -
[2]
for a droneboat i would say at least 5 drones are missing
search the forum for *passiv shieldtanking myrmidon* then at least youll
have hell of a tank.
best luck the myrm is a nice ship, one of the best
_________________
itze mine |
fjoesne
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Posted - 2008.01.05 14:17:00 -
[3]
Yeah.. got 5 med drones or 3 heavy drones +1 med working on t2 drones (2 days).. why not active hardners? EFT tells me i get much more resistance with active hardners than with passive
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Fswd
Gallente
Black Ops Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.05 14:23:00 -
[4]
Because passive shieldtanking relies on recharge, not on damage reduction
---
 Originally by: Richard Phallus
HEY! Giving helpful correct information isn't an eve meme! Stop that. 
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fjoesne
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Posted - 2008.01.05 14:34:00 -
[5]
shields? isnt gallente supposed to be all about armor?
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude
oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.05 15:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: fjoesne
shields? isnt gallente supposed to be all about armor?
Gallente ships make some of the best passive shield tankers in the game.
Passive though not active!
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2008.01.05 17:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: fjoesne
shields? isnt gallente supposed to be all about armor?
Gallente ships make some of the best passive shield tankers in the game.
Passive though not active!
To put it a bit more into perspective: The Myrmidon (and perhaps some other Gallente ships that I've never even considered passive tanking) can fit a mean passive shield tank thanks to having both generous amounts of mid and low slots (mids for hardeners/extenders and lows for shield power relays). If you stick it into EFT it probably does end up with a stronger passive tank than say, ye olde faitheful Passive Drake.
The problem with passive tanking Gallente ships, however, is that their primary weapon (other than Drones) are hybrid guns. And hybrids use cap. You can use hybrids on a passive tank, but your cap will generally end up having a negative recharge (you'll empty your cap after a certain amount of time). While you can attempt to rely solely on Drones, you're then only really getting half your damage potential.
Also, with a passive tank you've got no reliable way to tackle/slow down your target, so your railguns are going to have trouble tracking, your blasters are going to be useless since you can't get in range, and your drones won't be able to catch extremely fast targets.
You can probably get away with a passive tanked Myrmidon for mission running, as long as you aggro all the ships in the mission area first to avoid your drones getting shot... But for PvP it's a killmail waiting to happen.
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Traeon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.05 19:40:00 -
[8]
You are simply missing skillpoints.
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AncientGuardian
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
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Posted - 2008.01.05 20:20:00 -
[9]
when i used a Myrm to run missions, it was sweet.
just need to get most or all of the drone skills to lvl 4 and 5
Quote:
'Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts'
Quote:
If I ever saw an amputee getting hanged, I would start yelling out letters.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude
oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.05 22:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: fjoesne
shields? isnt gallente supposed to be all about armor?
Gallente ships make some of the best passive shield tankers in the game.
Passive though not active!
To put it a bit more into perspective: The Myrmidon (and perhaps some other Gallente ships that I've never even considered passive tanking) can fit a mean passive shield tank thanks to having both generous amounts of mid and low slots (mids for hardeners/extenders and lows for shield power relays). If you stick it into EFT it probably does end up with a stronger passive tank than say, ye olde faitheful Passive Drake.
The problem with passive tanking Gallente ships, however, is that their primary weapon (other than Drones) are hybrid guns. And hybrids use cap. You can use hybrids on a passive tank, but your cap will generally end up having a negative recharge (you'll empty your cap after a certain amount of time). While you can attempt to rely solely on Drones, you're then only really getting half your damage potential.
Also, with a passive tank you've got no reliable way to tackle/slow down your target, so your railguns are going to have trouble tracking, your blasters are going to be useless since you can't get in range, and your drones won't be able to catch extremely fast targets.
You can probably get away with a passive tanked Myrmidon for mission running, as long as you aggro all the ships in the mission area first to avoid your drones getting shot... But for PvP it's a killmail waiting to happen.
True there are disadvantages to a passive tank but you can have a passive tank with just LSE's and you can also use a cap-injector and even cap relays or diags in the lows without having to use shield relays which would nerf the cap for hybrids.
Also I know many succsefull pvp pilots who use nothing but caldari ships (some with passive tanks like drake) who also fit a MWD and a disruptor so saying it's a killmail waiting to happenis just not true. Most nano ishtars just have 2 LSE's but they are able to fit scams, mwd and webbers and are you seriously saying they are not pvp viable?
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Laura Steel
The Chaotic Order
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.01.05 23:45:00 -
[11]
For the Myrm, in terms of hybrids using cap, why not use projectile weapons? Myrm doesn't get a bonus to hybrids anyway.
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Caldorous
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.06 00:43:00 -
[12]
nerf that pic!!!!!!
change it to a link instead :S
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Clyneva
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Posted - 2008.01.06 02:19:00 -
[13]
If you intend on staying with an armor tank then drop one of the hardeners and switch it for another MAR II, one armor repair is generally not enough for a solid tank. Add repair rigs or capacitor rigs if the tank still isn't good enough. Also, make sure to match your hardeners to the type of damage the mission calls for.
Outside of that it's just a matter of skills, most of your damage is going to come from your drones, so get Tier II as fast as you can and raise your BC skill to increase both your dps and tank.
With enough skills and a good fit you should be able to handle LVL 4 missions solo in a myr(although very slowly).
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Cataclysm Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.06 12:36:00 -
[14]
Improve your skills. Missiles are easy to handle and shields can tank quite a lot of damage, even with low skills.
But the real source of the problem is the Myrmidon now. With Trinity it became a joke. A drone ship without Drone Bandwith.
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Suittam
Gallente
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.06 12:43:00 -
[15]
You are not doing anything wrong as such tbh, as others have said, make sure you are set to match your resistances if you know what you are facing.
Gallente ships on the whole require alot more SP to fly effectively than Caldari as far as mission running is concerned.
I think alot of you current difficulties can be put down to your low SP atm, for example:
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level (you only have lvl2 in BC's)
Keep training those skills!
-s-
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Thorek Ironbrow
Ironbrow Industries Co.
Empire Research
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Posted - 2008.01.06 14:20:00 -
[16]
Some pointers for your guns:
Use Blasters, Gallente ships are renown for being the "Blaster Boats" of EVE.
Have AT LEAST 1 Magenetic Field Stabilizer, but no more than 3.
Also, I think the Myrmidon gives bonuses to Hybrid damage per level, but your Battle Cruiser skill is only 2. Train that up to level 4/5, and also train up Medium Hybrid to 5 if you ever get a chance.
Another thing you could be doing wrong is using the wrong type of weapon against your enemy. For example, using Medium Blasters against frigates is not reccommended. I'd say keep them on, but also fit a stasis webifier, and use medium drones to kill them.
Against cruisers, a Myrmidon in range should really be amazing.
Of course, if the enemy frigate is webbed, Medium Hybrids should still do some decent damage.
It would be good to tell us your fittings, because there could always be something wrong there.
Make sure you're armour tanked. Make sure you're doing level 3s, because if you're doing level 2s, you should just sell the Myrm and get a Missile Boat.
I remember that me and my friend used to do level 3s together. I had a Passive Shield Tanked Drake, and he had at one point an armour tanked Brutix, and at another point a Myrmidon.
When he has his Myrm, he just didn't bother with weapons, he kept his drones, and in place of his Hybrids, he had salvagers and tractor beams. So I did all the killing and he got all the loot.
Ah, I just realised that link to the Myrmidon was your set up, yep, there's where you went wrong, Railguns. Railguns are meant for range, not damage, and should be left for the Caldari Sniper ships. I don't know much about armour tanks though, except when I fit one in EFT, it's usually something like:
Armour Repper of Right Size
Either rat specific hardeners, or as many EANMs as I can fit.
Then don't forget to save a slot or 2 for an MFS.
Right I'm going to stop typing now.
_____________________________
Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co.
Part of the Empire Research Alliance
Look us up in Nomaa or Itamo to join! |
The Djego
Minmatar
FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP.
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Posted - 2008.01.06 15:54:00 -
[17]
Train up Battlecruisers to 3, Energy Management and Energy Systems Opperation to 4.
Take Combat Drone Operation and Drone Interfacing to 4 for more damage. Medium and Light T2 Drones(use the right Damage Type) are better than Heavy T1 especialy in Level 3 where you got a huge amount of smaller targets. Use Small T2 to kill off bigger Amount of Frigs frist, the high Speed with the good Tracking will give you a time advantage here. Swap to Medium for Cruisers and BCs after this. Also use your guns first to snipe Frigs and switch to other targets if the Frigs are to close and in Orbit to get a deacend Damage Output form the Rails.
Your Fitting seams quite ok from my point of view. Myby one less Hardner and a extra Repairer(even a Small T2 helps) if you got spare Cap. Drake are out of line from the Tanking Ability when passivetanked but your Damage should be higher, including your Guns. Myrmidon is not a bad Ship for Missions, but Drake is a extrem good one and works even with very poor Skills.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! |
Jacob Holland
Gallente
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.01.06 17:30:00 -
[18]
Bearing in mind the Myrmidon's repair amount bonus it is almost the case that the more armour repairers you can squeeze on (while still maintaining capacitor) the better, at least at higher skill levels.
You are presumably facing Guristas and Serpentis from your hardener fit, dropping one of the thermic hardeners (both factions do more Kinetic than thermal, Guristas much more) and replacing it with a second rep may well be benifitial.
(On Angel and Drone missions, where all four damage types can be found I have used an explosive, thermic and kinetic hardener set and three medium reps, maximising the ship's bonus and the rigs fitted. It's slow as there's no space for an Afterburner but...)
Of course the beauty of EVE is that if you don't get on with a race's apparent playstyle (and don't want to change your approach until things work for you) then you can always train in another direction - it doesn't take long to get the skills to fly a Drake.
As for passive fits on Myrmidons, this refers to the passive shield tank consisting of Large extenders, Invulnerability fields and a shield recharger or EM resistance amp in the mids and Shield Power Relays in the lows so that your shield recharge rate is increased so much that damage simply cannot penetrate the natural recharge.
Capacitor becomes a major issue in this configuration so capless weaponry or nosferatu are used to supplement your drones.
And yes, the Myrm is very good at passive tanking, outdoing the Drake considerably with the proper fit. Your assumption that Gallente are all about armour is broadly appropriate but flawed, Amarr are as close as one gets to "all about armour", caldari as close as one gets to "all about shields"; Minmatar and Gallente lie somewhere in the middle, Minmatar having several shield tanked and several armour tanked ships while Gallente are predominantly armour tanked... However, according to the backstory it was the Gallente who invented Passive Shield Tanking and they still have some of the best ships for the role.
--
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2008.01.06 19:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
True there are disadvantages to a passive tank but you can have a passive tank with just LSE's and you can also use a cap-injector and even cap relays or diags in the lows without having to use shield relays which would nerf the cap for hybrids.
Also I know many succsefull pvp pilots who use nothing but caldari ships (some with passive tanks like drake) who also fit a MWD and a disruptor so saying it's a killmail waiting to happenis just not true. Most nano ishtars just have 2 LSE's but they are able to fit scams, mwd and webbers and are you seriously saying they are not pvp viable?
It's a good thing I wasn't talking about the Drake being a killmail waiting to happen. I do believe I was talking about the Myrmidon. The drake makes an excellent passive tanker because it's primary weapon doesn't have to worry about cap, tracking or range problems - it just shoots.
I think your idea, and my idea of passive tanking are a bit different. While 'passive tanking' does refer to any tank where you're not actively repairing it... A proper shield passive tank focuses on having a high regen rate to offset it's lack of active repairing. To fit an MWD/tackle to a real passive tanked ship sacrifices total shields and/or regen rate and is still going to heave cap issues very quickly.
I fly Drakes myself in PvP that are set up with a 'passive tank' and traditional PvP tackle. But it's not a real passive tanked ship as it's relying mainly on the shield/armor as a buffer and hoping it gets the kill before being killed itself, and not on it's shield regen to keep it alive.
A nano-ishtar with shield extenders is also not a real passive tank. It's a speed tank that happens to be using the extenders as a buffer in the event that it does take a lot of damage (IE: getting webbed, getting hit by precision missiles, etc). If you're taking enough damage to require 2 LSE2 on a nano-Ishtar, perhaps it's time to look at top-speed of the setup.
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deepfreeze007
Caldari
Swordfish LLD
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Posted - 2008.01.07 22:32:00 -
[20]
Well, generally speaking, the choice to "armor tank" or "shield tank" depends mostly on the specs of the ship you're flying, i.e. it's natural shield regen rate (Shield HP vs. Shield Recharge time), or how much CAP it has. Some ship's were just designed to have better natural shield regen than others. I fly mostly Caldari ships (i.e. THE DRAKE), and most of them fit some form of shield tank fairly well, but due to the fact that I have nearly 6 Mil SP in drones, I'm switching over to Gallente ship's right now to take advantage of them, which also means I need to switch from mostly missiles to guns. Gallente still have ship's which can fit a good shield tank, but depending on the stats of the ship you're in, you may need to just armor tank instead. Just got to look at the numbers.
__/\___/\___/\___/\__________________________
Hulks, they're like vampires for roids. |
Aikanaro
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Posted - 2008.01.08 11:19:00 -
[21]
Train for drones and some decent mechanic skillz.
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Miss Miata
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Posted - 2008.01.08 14:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Miss Miata on 08/01/2008 14:45:02
Edited by: Miss Miata on 08/01/2008 14:42:24
heres what id do....
meds...
fit a bunch of large extenders (the best u can afford)
maybe add a ab for dictating range
fit a active kinetic hardner
lo`s...
6 x sheild power relays
if u need more cap for weapons start swapping sprs for power diags till you have enough
hi`s..
ok fit whateva u can here, theres no bonus so anything will do. personally id use projectiles but feel free to use rails or blasters if u have the cap to run em. even small guns will do, its just extra dps!
drones
your choice, id just use meds (therm)
now offer your mate in his drake a 1 vs 1 to armor
ab to ya favoured range for ya guns
release drones and shoot away
im pretty sure it will be a close fight 
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RedMage
Digital Foundry
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:00:00 -
[23]
Like all the PL guys said, your just missing skill points. Caldari come out of the box stronger than most races. With low SP they can do more damage than other races. It's just a fact. However over time, the minmitar and gallente ships start to do more damage. Gallente do lots of prdy damage after you get another 10m sp!
If I were you I'd go with an armor tank. I was never really happy w/ passive tanks. Yeah you don't have to pay attention but why?
Armor tank, match the hardeners you use to the rats in the mission. Also, I would change that Drone Augmentor to a Nos, maybe change 1 gun to a nos too. So when you are doing missions, you can tank longer by leaching off enamies. However with your drone skills moving up, you'll be in a domi in no time.
Train Drone Interfacing to 4 then choose weather to go domi or stay myrmidon. If you move to a domi, you get 400m of drone space and 125m bandwith, meaning you can launch heavy drones, the clutch card for gallente.
Ruse, Ruse, Fast. Now you can't hit me. |
Anika Mobius
The Core Collective
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:48:00 -
[24]
I'm Caldari but I personally prefer Gallente ships because of the large Drone bays they offer. In my Myrmidon I use Projectile weapons (ammo'd for the mission) (425 ACs actually) and a NOS. Get a MWD so you can get in close quickly, open fire and launch your drones. It's simple and quick. Missions are over so fast that most of the time I don't need a repper or a booster, just active hardeners for the mission rat's damage type.
Gallente ships are not designed to be played like Caldari ships. Get in closer than your friend does. Also, if you want to feel better about yourself duel him sometime - just remember to orbit close where his missiles and rails are less useful; and NOS him way down - he needs cap to fight. 
- AM |
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