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Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Dr Slurm on 08/01/2008 03:41:57 I think its pretty obvious people are using lame CAOD tactics forum pvp tactics to aggravate the regulars here. Unfortunately people are taking the bait. I'm not of the belief that they are all the same person. And really accusing them of being the same only feeds into the problem. So what I would like to propose is removing Trial Accounts and Characters younger 15 days ability to post in this forum. Yes, I admit this closes out new players, but there are very few younger then 15 days that ever post here. Of those that do, they are asking questions they could have found the answer to in the FAQ or the help channel. I don't have a problem with this. It's better then Quafe!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:45:00 - [2] For the most part, the posters using these tactics arent trials or 15day accounts. Glad to see you being proactive, but I dont think the cure you propose will do the trick against this current infestation. I to am not of the belief that they are all the same person. Even if they were it wouldnt really matter to me one way or the other. --
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:53:00 - [3] Edited by: Treelox on 08/01/2008 03:53:52 Just thought I would add that the character that was supposedly scammed was a 2month old that had never left the newb corp. Should be note this char, now seems to have been biomassed. While the most recent creator of the latest EBANK troll thread is a 1year 11month old vetern of the newb corp with very basic standings. ---edit added sentence concerning biomassing --
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:57:00 - [4] The way to handle these blatant troll threads/complaints is to either A) Not post. B) Post a very short message such as "Go away troll" or "LOL". Any substantive debate only keeps the trolls fed. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:00:00 - [5] I kind of thought limiting posting to non-npc corps was going too far, but if that is the common denominator of these lowest common denominators, then so be it. It's better then Quafe!
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:01:00 - [6] if your opponent has no mana he cant regen his trolls. also try bury effects.
Assens Letta Hunerian Science Institute	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:05:00 - [7] Edited by: Assens Letta on 08/01/2008 04:05:43 Originally by: Shadarle The way to handle these blatant troll threads/complaints is to either A) Not post. B) Post a very short message such as "Go away troll" or "LOL". Any substantive debate only keeps the trolls fed. why not a big sign when u enter the MD forum saying "dont feed the trolls" as u have in the zoo (altough in the zoo its "do not feed the animals") ?
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Dr Slurm I kind of thought limiting posting to non-npc corps was going too far, but if that is the common denominator of these lowest common denominators, then so be it. This is going way to far imo. You can't disallow people to post just because they are in an NPC corp, this is a forum about the market... nothing about the market is restricted based on being in an npc corp. Preventing legitimate users from using something because a few people are misusing it is the wrong way to go at things. If these people are truly mis-using the forum according to CCP then they can be banned from the forum(s). If CCP doesn't agree then they won't make these changes anyhow. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Vedz Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:12:00 - [9] I agree. This is indeed a forum about the market. It is in everyone's best interest to keep the markets efficient. In order to do that, everybody needs to share information. Some information may be negative but it keeps others informed and prevents them from making bad financial decisions. As far as trolling goes, that depends on your definition. You can't dismiss somebody as a troll simply because you disagree with what they post. That seems rather selfish and childish.
Assens Letta Hunerian Science Institute	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Vedz I agree. This is indeed a forum about the market. It is in everyone's best interest to keep the markets efficient. In order to do that, everybody needs to share information. Some information may be negative but it keeps others informed and prevents them from making bad financial decisions. As far as trolling goes, that depends on your definition. You can't dismiss somebody as a troll simply because you disagree with what they post. That seems rather selfish and childish. you seem to be confusing informantion with baseless slander. besides, Dr. slurm could have put a "no trolls inside plz" sign at this thread entrance (thus depriving us of your charming presence).
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Dr Slurm I kind of thought limiting posting to non-npc corps was going too far, but if that is the common denominator of these lowest common denominators, then so be it. This is going way to far imo. You can't disallow people to post just because they are in an NPC corp, this is a forum about the market... nothing about the market is restricted based on being in an npc corp. Preventing legitimate users from using something because a few people are misusing it is the wrong way to go at things. If these people are truly mis-using the forum according to CCP then they can be banned from the forum(s). If CCP doesn't agree then they won't make these changes anyhow. I think the main problem is people are replying to threads that they should have just passed by. Over the last couple of days I've typed up several replies only to hit the back button. I really don't know why people are still paying any attention to the useless chaff that has been posting lately or replying to the threads. shrug It's better then Quafe!
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Shadarle The way to handle these blatant troll threads/complaints is to either A) Not post. B) Post a very short message such as "Go away troll" or "LOL". Any substantive debate only keeps the trolls fed. Actually the best thing to do is hit the report button on the post and submit the complaint against the troll posts - that and ignore them/do not reply as Shad suggests. The more people who complain and report the offending posts - the more chance we have of having them removed. This sustained campaign by said trollers will come to an end soon - I hope. Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:29:00 - [13] Hit Report and ignore them. It's the best solution. If you do so, they'll go away. Otherwise you're just giving them exactly what they want. Takes a minute sometimes to remember things you learn in grade school, but it comes.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:43:00 - [14] You guys are probably right about just reporting it and otherwise ignoring said idiots. Well, mods, you can look forward to several more reported posts. It's better then Quafe!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Treelox Edited by: Treelox on 08/01/2008 03:53:52 Just thought I would add that the character that was supposedly scammed was a 2month old that had never left the newb corp. Should be note this char, now seems to have been biomassed. Somewhere i recall that using disposable alts is against the EULA or something? This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:44:00 - [16] Originally by: LaVista Vista Somewhere i recall that using disposable alts is against the EULA or something? I dont think that applies to the forums. Not even sure if its EULA or what, but I believe there is some rule or such that makes it highly descouraged to use disposable alts for ganking in empire. Such as suicide kessie squads against covetors and retrievers, and the everyone in the squad recycling them once thier sec stat hits a point where travel in their high sec hunting grounds becomes hindered. --
Malcolm Gerhardt Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:44:00 - [17] I believe that censoring the Market forums in any way would be a detriment to the market and to the world of EVE as a whole. Who am I to say this? A person of no real importance in anyway. However, due to a wonky Graphics card that limits my playtime, i found playing the market a great way to make Isk in my limited time. What does this matter? I've learned everything from the forums! By reading responses to different IPO's, trade orders and suggestions, i have gained a working knowledge of how the market works and how to play it. Even the trolls help in a little way, in helping me question everything i might sink money into. i do agree there is a limit to what they say sometimes, but I also feel that intelligent players reading the posts by them can and will see those with criticisms and other simply with malious intent. As for the ban of NPC corps, this would hurt ME personally. My corp got stranded when M.pire pulled out of the north. Disallusioned with the actions of the corp and Alliance, i decided to leave my old corp and go it alone for a bit. I'm sorry for the tangent but i believed it necessary show that not all NPC corpers are malicous
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Malcolm Gerhardt Edited by: Malcolm Gerhardt on 08/01/2008 06:46:25 I believe that censoring the Market forums in any way would be a detriment to the market and to the world of EVE as a whole. Who am I to say this? A person of no real importance in anyway. However, due to a wonky Graphics card that limits my playtime, i found playing the market a great way to make Isk in my limited time. What does this matter? I've learned everything from the forums! By reading responses to different IPO's, trade orders and suggestions, i have gained a working knowledge of how the market works and how to play it. Even the trolls help in a little way, in helping me question everything i might sink money into. i do agree there is a limit to what they say sometimes, but I also feel that intelligent players reading the posts by them can and will see those with criticisms and other simply with malicous intent. As for the ban of NPC corps, this would hurt ME personally. My corp got stranded when M.pire pulled out of the north. Disallusioned with the actions of the corp and Alliance, i decided to leave my old corp and go it alone for a bit. I'm sorry for the tangent but i believed it necessary show that not all NPC corpers are malicous Edit: typos Hate to break it to you but these forums are already censored. You've never posted before, so that kind of change would have no effect on you. You could still read the forums. The only thing that brought you out of lurker mode was me suggesting you not be able to post because of your npc corp membership. Why hide behind an npc corp? make your own the skills take less then an hour and it's only a couple million. It's better then Quafe!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:11:00 - [19] I have to agree with you Malcom, I am not a big fan of blanket bans. Although I do understand the current one concerning trial accounts being only able to post to forum channels in Eve Information Center. I do understand where Slurm's frustration comes from, and I too feel that frustration as of late. Blanket bans based on age of character or corp affilation I dont think will really stop anything though. We only have to look at all the one man alt corps that exsist in CAOD, circumventing the rules there, to see that in practice bans of based on being in a player corp do not really work. I would suspect that if an age ban was put in, we would find that restriction was "worked" around aswell. --
Malcolm Gerhardt Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.08 07:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Dr Slurm You've never posted before, so that kind of change would have no effect on you. You could still read the forums. The only thing that brought you out of lurker mode was me suggesting you not be able to post because of your npc corp membership. Why hide behind an npc corp? make your own the skills take less then an hour and it's only a couple million. While my npc statu is a factor, it's not the main reason i posted. i felt it was nessecary to state my opinion on the matter. I look on several of the players on these boards as... pardon the cliche.. "captions of the industry"..i feel that any lose of the ablilty to communicate would be negative. I've thought about it...Starting my oown corps...kicking an IPO idea around
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.08 08:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Treelox I have to agree with you Malcom, I am not a big fan of blanket bans. Although I do understand the current one concerning trial accounts being only able to post to forum channels in Eve Information Center. I do understand where Slurm's frustration comes from, and I too feel that frustration as of late. Blanket bans based on age of character or corp affilation I dont think will really stop anything though. We only have to look at all the one man alt corps that exsist in CAOD, circumventing the rules there, to see that in practice bans of based on being in a player corp do not really work. I would suspect that if an age ban was put in, we would find that restriction was "worked" around aswell. Yes but in doing so you are tieing up an otherwise valuable char slot so you can post your dribble on a forum. The point of any of these limitations is to make the process annoying. Making it impossible would be far too limiting. I'm not a big fan of limiting anyone's speech, but I do expect them to be responsible for it. Originally by: Malcolm Gerhardt Originally by: Dr Slurm You've never posted before, so that kind of change would have no effect on you. You could still read the forums. The only thing that brought you out of lurker mode was me suggesting you not be able to post because of your npc corp membership. Why hide behind an npc corp? make your own the skills take less then an hour and it's only a couple million. While my npc statu is a factor, it's not the main reason i posted. i felt it was nessecary to state my opinion on the matter. I look on several of the players on these boards as... pardon the cliche.. "captions of the industry"..i feel that any lose of the ablilty to communicate would be negative. I've thought about it...Starting my oown corps...kicking an IPO idea around Please, god, no. IPO's are a fad. It's better then Quafe!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.08 08:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Dr Slurm I'm not a big fan of limiting anyone's speech, but I do expect them to be responsible for it. A lofty expectation indeed, even in RL, let alone on the internet. --
Leora Nomen Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.08 09:52:00 - [23] i find some troll posts funny ... so to all of you who want to remove them from this forum just remember that your opinion is not same as everyone else's guide to game time codes
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:08:00 - [24] Slurm, Some people do not understand Maturity. It is their problem, not yours or mine. 'nuff said. RB
Ryu Kibegami	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:09:00 - [25] I agree with just report to admins if you think the post or thread is trolling, and ignore the thread. Noone is forcing you to read or answer to anything posted here. How is banning NPC corps going to help not all trolls come from those corps, and not all people like have found a corp to join, and forcing someone to train skills I do not care about or want is ludicrous.
Midas Man	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:00:00 - [26] Trolling in itself can be helpful in the market forum for 2 reasons. It can help possible investors see pitfalls in a given idea. It can help the people offering the Idea a chance to tie up lose ends in there idea and provide information to prove there not scamming by highlighting Pitfalls to them. One other example I though of that Trolling might be doing :- Say Investor want a share of a certain IPO but all shares have been reserved If he/she can convince people the idea is a bad one and so cancell there researve he/she can then buy up the shares to make profit from it. Anyone here ever looked for investment in reallife if not you will be surprised to know that most people are septical no matter how tight you make your business plan, and that only helps you put valid arguements against them and so increase the trust from other investors in your idea. IMO ofcourse.
SencneS Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:23:00 - [27] Edited by: SencneS on 08/01/2008 14:25:31 Trolling and COAD tactics in this forum was bound the happen at some point. To put it simply, COAD is all about alliance' their tactics, wins and losses, and corporate/alliance level announcements of their plans, and the actions of other corporations/alliances against their corporation. In all honesty the Market Discussion is no different. We post about our corporations intentions. We post about actions of other corporations. We post about cause and effect one corporation has on the market, or eve in general. We post about our victories and our losses in the market. If politics of corporations and alliances has a home of COAD, then MD is the home for Carebears. Eventually one public venture would be large enough, have enough support and followers it would become a target of aggressive public scrutiny. EBank is that public venture, which in itself is not really an IPO or "venture". It's a service of EVE, some of the features being worked on will take EVE itself to new level of trade. As the Board of Directors have request myself to be the PR face of EBank I am here to address concerns, issues, complaints, and in essence defend EBank from arbitrary attacks. It's clear MD is on the verge of a new era where PR Managers are more common. Although I don't welcome the idea of MD becoming the COAD of Trade I do welcome the idea to have PR Managers. More often then not a singular voice of a crowd, answering the mobs questions, gets heard. Amarr for Life
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:07:00 - [28] The idea of banning people from posting on MD because they are in an NPC corp is just silly. It would be like banning white guys with beards from buying guns or using the mail because a few guys matching this description have become serial killers and used these methods to kill people. Totally ignoring the fact that other people have also been serial killers that do not match this description and that the massive majority of people matching this description are not serial killers. Because there is already censorship does not mean more censorship is acceptable or desirable. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained

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