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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:18:00 -
[1]
Just been looking into manufacturing, when I look at the bill of materials, especialy for salvage items, I can sell my salvage items for more than an item costs on the market and then buy what i want with a few mill left over. Admittedly I have only looked at 4 or 5 blueprints but the ones I looked at all did this.  |
JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:20:00 -
[2]
Yes, manufacturing is worth it. Somebody has to replace the ships I keep losing.
Oh wait, the person in my corp who does manufacturing does that for me. But yes, manufacturing is worth it. You can support your corp, who will usually supply you with stuff you need if it is a good corp. And you can sell stuff you make to make a little extra isk.
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 Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hah! Vengeance is sweet! 
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:24:00 -
[3]
but thats my point - i can sell the stuff used to manufacture and make more money than manufacturing 10-20% in some cases.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:26:00 -
[4]
No, in general manufacturing is not worth it. If you have a corp you want to supply it might be different. In 0.0 it's surely worth it. But empire markets are flooded with cheap goods that sell for like 2% above the cost of making them.
There's a lot of people building stuff who don't understand that they could be making more by selling raw materials. They don't do the math or don't understand markets or something. I've met a few who do that.
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Cabbs Babbage
Kandor Fleet Systems
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Xanthese
Just been looking into manufacturing, when I look at the bill of materials, especialy for salvage items, I can sell my salvage items for more than an item costs on the market and then buy what i want with a few mill left over. Admittedly I have only looked at 4 or 5 blueprints but the ones I looked at all did this.
How researched are the blueprints you are looking at? and what are your manufacturing skills like? like Production Efficiency (the skill with a 4% reduction in material requirements).
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Signature Here. Eventually. Maybe. |
Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:31:00 -
[6]
I'm looking at the blueprints perfect figures - i'm level 4
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Ekscalybur
Caldari
Templar Services Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:32:00 -
[7]
Also with what Frug stated, you are also seeing the side effect of people saying to themselves, "I salvaged these bits myself, so they were free". They are selling the manufactured rig for less than they could have sold the ingredients for. They are making money in that they are increasing the total in their wallet, but they fail to realize they are wasting potential profits.
But please don't anyone enlighten these individuals, I like cheap rigs. In fact, I wish their were more people like this.
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Saashia Gallente
Blackstar Consortium
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:32:00 -
[8]
The merchants could also be making more money, but some are unwilling to help drive prices higher.
Some (the ones who will never be truely successful) believe they are winning by selling fast at a near-break even margin. This is wrong.
The successful ones, establish reasonable (and profitable) margins, and make a lot of isk in the process. These are the ones people complain about dominating a particular system/region/etc. When, in fact, they have simply built an empire, and are now rich enough to buy up the undercutters and repost those items at their scaled up margins.
Mmmm capitalism.
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Xanthese on 08/01/2008 19:35:19
How researched are the blueprints you are looking at? and what are your manufacturing skills like? like Production Efficiency (the skill with a 4% reduction in material requirements).
I understood it was a 4% reduction in the wastage level with no wastage at Lvl 5 - hence the You and Perfect figures.
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Drizit
Amarr
Lonely out here
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:36:00 -
[10]
Skills are are crucial factor. If you have a perfect build, you would be hard pressed to make more selling the materials instead of manufacturing. If you manufacturing skills are poor, most of the build cost is going to waste and that's why you can make more from selling the materials.
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:40:00 -
[11]
Capacitor Control Circuit - I can make more money from salvage than making it using the perfect figures
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Monty Kvaran
Caldari
Consolidated Sprocket
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:43:00 -
[12]
With even a bit of production eff you can find many profitable products to manufacture, even in highsec... it just takes some research to find them... There are also alot where you would be better off selling the mats... Remember: the cost of your manufacturing is what you could sell the mats for, its only what it cost you to get them if you bought them. I make a moderate profit buying minerals and manufacturing with only lvl 2 prod eff, it is possible..
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:44:00 -
[13]
Minerals yes - but salvage items, I dont think so and everything I'd want to build uses salvage items
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defiler
Mad Hermit
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xanthese
I'm looking at the blueprints perfect figures - i'm level 4
You do realize there is a base 10% waste on the blueprint as well, which doesn't show up in the perfect figures, right? This means that the perfect build has about 9.1% lower reqs if you're looking at a ME0 BP.
If it still more profitable to sell the materials then what's to stop you from buying the finished product, reprocessing it (assuming you've got decent skills) and reselling those materials for a nice profit margin?
It will always be profitable to be a manufacturer, just not all the time, all over the world. If a commodity is unprofitable, supply will go down when manufacturers seek more profitable markets. Then as the supply no longer meets demand prices will start to go up until supply yet again meets demand.
Mad Hermit corporation
Minding our own business since 2004 |
Kathryn Dougans
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kathryn Dougans on 08/01/2008 19:58:27
Originally by: Xanthese
Capacitor Control Circuit - I can make more money from salvage than making it using the perfect figures
What are the numbers you are looking at?
An unresearched CCC blueprint requires 83 burned logic circuits, 72 tripped power circuits, and 22 melted capacitor consoles. Those are the numbers it would say under perfect.
A researched blueprint uses 75 burned logic circuits, 65 tripped power circuits, and 20 melted capacitor consoles. Those are the numbers it would say under perfect.
The wastage on the unresearched BP is high, maybe 2M isk on the melted capacitor consoles alone.
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:02:00 -
[16]
Ok - I think i'm getting it - is there anywhere that explains all this stuff (in a clear and concise manner) so that a math moron like me can figure it out - all i've seen are bits of fragmented stuff.
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:05:00 -
[17]
just checked - that saves you 2mill TOTAL - still not worth it
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:12:00 -
[18]
If you are thinking of producing and then selling in the main hubs, probably not worth it. People will sell under (at least your) cost. There are however lots of stations in lots of places that are 'under serviced' and would support a profit on carefully select things.
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SPAgent Scully
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:12:00 -
[19]
Where you sell also determines profit margin.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Frug
No, in general manufacturing is not worth it. If you have a corp you want to supply it might be different. In 0.0 it's surely worth it. But empire markets are flooded with cheap goods that sell for like 2% above the cost of making them.
There's a lot of people building stuff who don't understand that they could be making more by selling raw materials. They don't do the math or don't understand markets or something. I've met a few who do that.
Or they go japanese on you and sell at a loss to drive their competition out of the market then jack the prices back up.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Xanthese on 08/01/2008 20:19:23
Thank you **** - i'm working on that one with my alt (it's not really my alt its my sons ac and i bullied him into training waht I want) ROFL 
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Kathryn Dougans
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xanthese
just checked - that saves you 2mill TOTAL - still not worth it - where can i sell melted capacitors for 1mill each - i was working on 530k - that would make the melted caps worth more than the sale price of a cap control circuit
yeah, sorry, I'd mistyped things. Btw, the build price in some of the regions I've been in is about 18-20 mill, and they will sell at 19-22 mill. It's worth it sometimes. Prices go up and down.
Anyway. For material efficiency things, look in the starbase stations and outposts forum. There's a thing called MLCalc which will tell you the amount of materials used for blueprints at varying research levels. You can then use that to check if it's profitable to build.
Also, for things like capacitor control circuits, you can sell them for much higher prices in places like mission hubs, because people are willing to pay for convenience to buy it and immediately fit it to their ship, avoiding any risk (no matter how small) of a suicide attack, or the time spent in using their missioning ship to pick it up.
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Xanthese
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:31:00 -
[23]
thanks Kathryn
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:37:00 -
[24]
Manufacturing is still worth it. You just have to train relevant skills high and use researched BPO's only. Even then the profit margin is very small on T1 production. You still can earn decent ISK there, but you have to do it on volume, not by margin.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 08/01/2008 20:48:19
rifter price check in the great wildlands
800,000 low
950,000 high
people buy them because they are cheap.
they don't want to jump far out.
However if you join a corp then it's 100% worth it.
battleship production, you'll get paid for it for the reason above.
no one one want to fly through 0.0 just to get a tech 1 battleship and risk flying it back.
you want new ships in 0.0
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Saashia Gallente
Blackstar Consortium
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:56:00 -
[26]
Quote:
that would make the melted caps worth more than the sale price of a cap control circuit
Here's a trade secret...
If you see that happening, start buying up cheap modules and reprocess them for their materials. Then sell the materials. That's free money.
Feel free to send my consulting fee to SAASHIA GALLENTE, hehe.
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nether void
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.08 22:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Saashia Gallente
Quote:
that would make the melted caps worth more than the sale price of a cap control circuit
Here's a trade secret...
If you see that happening, start buying up cheap modules and reprocess them for their materials. Then sell the materials. That's free money.
Feel free to send my consulting fee to SAASHIA GALLENTE, hehe.
I used to do this with MWD a long time ago. lol Thousands at a time. If you're good with Excel you can make a lot of ISK.
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nethervoid - since '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|EVE|HZ|NWN|VG|WoW] |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.01.08 23:29:00 -
[28]
I suggest you get your hands on a copy of the latest version of Eve-Meep. Once you plug in some more current mineral price values its a great way to quickly figure your production costs and whether something is worth building.
Oh, and remember that you do NOT need to undercut the jerk selling for 5% under build cost 8 jumps away. If he wants to take a loss that's his problem. He may as well be in the next region for all the people in your constellation care. I will not go 8 jumps to save a few ISK. It is not worth my time. I will go 8 jumps to get something I can't get in my home system, but people go for convenience over small price differences, every time.
Or you can train up some trade skills and just flip his underpriced stuff.
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FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
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Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2008.01.08 23:47:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 08/01/2008 23:47:23
It's always going to be subjective. If it's over-produced then people will always be trying to undercut the market just to get people to look at their product over others. If you want to manufacture, sell basic items in places where the item isn't abundant. I'm repeating people but someone producing ravens (or whatever) in remote 0.0 can set high prices.
_
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Rufus MacMaranth
Shadow Front
Lost Children of Eve
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Posted - 2008.01.09 00:08:00 -
[30]
Yes, very with the caveat that you pay ateention to what you manufacture and where you sell it. Margins vary from 1% (or negative) to over 100% depending on what you build and where you sell it.
As was said before, if your reprocessing skills and standings are up to it, you can take underpriced goods out of the market (don;t know about rigs though) and reprocess them for profit (or just resell them!).
Some people are plain stupid and sell below cost.
Cheers,
Ruf.
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