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Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.12 07:51:00 - [121] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Dhamon Grimwulf The myth that frigates can get through gate camps is a lie. I have been caught in frigates by gatecamps. Not everyone can have interceptors or nanoships or cloaking devices or MWD without months of training. an industrial with nothing but warp core stabs some shields and very little dedicated sp can get through gate camps just fine in losec - if you want to go to 0.0 you need to plan differently No more SJ, EVE now has the heavy interdictors, and they will become common fast. That mean that a industrial or a transport ship using warp stabilizers will have little chance of escaping a gatecamp in the future. The only viable transport ship left would be blockade runner.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.12 08:19:00 - [122] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 12/01/2008 05:26:15 Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 12/01/2008 05:24:01 Personally, I'd like it better if things got changed into: 1. todays >.5 has the security of todays low-sec 2. todays low-sec has the security of todays 0.0 (except without the possibility for "alliances" to take space and do POS-warfare). and 3. 0.0 becomes 300% more hostile. Lots of area of effect damage, lots of illegal weaponry that can't be used anywhere else, lots of back-stabbing, POS-stealing, fleet fights with lots of area of effect weapons (to make fleet fights, economically REALLY dangerous business). And generally uber-hostile. I want 0.0 space to be what you thought it would be when you started as a noob. Something to really be afraid of. Something that "lol 2 month raven noob with macro-program" can't navigate without being high-strung and finger on the gun, as in, battleships without cloakability, and without easy access to safespots (as in warping around and staying in the middle of nowhere which could be a gaseous cloud that might just as well blow your ship up). Now that's what EVE -should- be in my eyes. Enough of these damn touchy feely, let's hug eachother Oveur-gimmicks. Bring back the pain. In fact, I believe it so strongly, I'll just put that in my sig. Translation: "I want counterstrike with spaceships" that is another game.
Guilliman R Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:34:00 - [123] i think low sec should be safe at gates and npc stations. 0.0 rules everywhere else (no big alliance things tho) pirates should buzz off and use their skills to find people in belts/missions and pirate there, or go 0.0 if they want to camp gates or stations. And no, don't bother waisting your energy arguing against it, I won't change opinion. ---sig---
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.12 12:38:00 - [124] Originally by: Venkul Mul Translation: "I want counterstrike with spaceships" that is another game. Translation: "I'm hiding in high-sec scared fecal-less, and even more so when anyone mention something that would make undocking in high-sec even more frightening." WoW is that way -> "Bring back the pain."
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.12 13:14:00 - [125] Well personally i would still prefer the gradual reducion of danger. So, in hi sec u get security from concord as well as gateguns everywhere, then when u enter lowsec, the security gradually dissapears, so mebbe still add concord protection and uber tought gateguns at gates/stations but not at belts/anywhere else, then in 0.3 remove concord from gates/stations but keep uber guns, in 0.2 make the guns less uber, so the lower u get the easier it becomes to attack people. This might draw people into 0.4 knowing they only are at risk in at belts. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.12 13:56:00 - [126] Originally by: Venkul Mul No, in Egghelende . Errr, Egghelende is not a good idea, it's one of the more famous pirate systems ;) Originally by: Venkul Mul Beside your need to use ad ominem attacks, it is still not convenient to rat in low sec instead of 0.0, 0.0 is far from convenient. I mean, really. Originally by: Venkul Mul mining in low sec give little more than high sec and as constant harassing (in high sec I can mine for hours without problems, in 0.0 in can mine more profitable ores and I can still mine for hours) so why I would stay in low sec? It's very easy to rat in a frig/AF/destroyer in low-sec and be very safe. Safespotting once every half hour is hardly a problem... Originally by: Venkul Mul I have lived for months in low sec with one of my characters, because I was getting some R&D agents and standings there, with a noob character going from frigates to BC but that didn't make it convenient for a general use. You can harp about how beautiful is your little corner forever, most low sec see unfriendly visits ever half hors or so, making it unsafe for most uses. Unfriendly visit every half hour or so doesn't make it problematic. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.12 13:59:00 - [127] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Well personally i would still prefer nerfing low-sec and piracy. Corrected it for you. If you wanted a gradual reduction of danger, you'd allow pirates to get into 0.5 and 0.6 and do limited belt piracy there ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:06:00 - [128] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: 000Hunter000 Well personally i would still prefer nerfing low-sec and piracy. Corrected it for you. If you wanted a gradual reduction of danger, you'd allow pirates to get into 0.5 and 0.6 and do limited belt piracy there ;) This isn't a bad idea. Make 0.3 to 0.6 some kind of middle-sec, where piracy is possible but there's still some kind of protection and it's not as hard for people to get away.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:16:00 - [129] I think CCP should give anti-pirates more incentives in low-secs. I say give anti-pirates some state of the art special spaceships with extra bonuses to kill people with -2.0 and below. These special spaceships could only be flow by pilots with +4.0 sec ratings and above. And killing pirates would not cause sec. hits to anti-pirates. Make anti-pirates the new force of volunteer Concord agents in low secs please. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:58:00 - [130] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/01/2008 15:58:15 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I suck in ganking already disadvantaged pilots in ships they fly themselves. Corrected it for you. Given the lack of pirates in EvE and the disadvantages they face when fighting station/etc hugging anti-pirates, give pirates special ships with 25% boosts over everything. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.12 16:07:00 - [131] Are you joking Branko? I tried to laugh but I couldn't. The way I see it in-game and forums, pirates do have so much advantages in-game. Nobody finds pirates and pirates find you! It is the anti-pirates who really need a boost fighting pirates. We have to lure them and then fight against uneven odds. Piracy is easy mode and anti-pirates is hard mode in Eve. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.12 16:12:00 - [132] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Are you joking Branko? I tried to laugh but I couldn't. The way I see it in-game and forums, pirates do have so much advantages in-game. Nobody finds pirates and pirates find you! It is the anti-pirates who really need a boost fighting pirates. We have to lure them and then fight against uneven odds. Piracy is easy mode and anti-pirates is hard mode in Eve. Yes, because anti-pirates can use inties/recons/etc and still fight at gates/etc; the anti-pirates have game mechanics advantages. Pirates have player skill advantage. I think you cannot fix this by CCP intervention Yes, choosing not to fight the anti-pirate blob is something smart people do. Smart tactics are choosing where and when to fight, really. The only 'hard-mode' thing about anti-pirates is that there are so little pirates that it's hard to find a lot of them. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
MITSUK0	Posted - 2008.01.12 16:17:00 - [133] Some of the comments in threads like this make me lol People make out like its insta death to jump into lowsec yet I manage it all the time, the pirates in lowsec manage to move around without being ganked too (and shock horror they are not all set blue to each other), my trade alt flys through lowsec with a cargo hold full of expensive lewts and rarely gets ganked. It's you, your making your own problems.
Kessiaan	Posted - 2008.01.12 16:57:00 - [134] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Are you joking Branko? I tried to laugh but I couldn't. The way I see it in-game and forums, pirates do have so much advantages in-game. Nobody finds pirates and pirates find you! It is the anti-pirates who really need a boost fighting pirates. We have to lure them and then fight against uneven odds. Piracy is easy mode and anti-pirates is hard mode in Eve. I think you're failing to see the big picture. IF you're in the pirates trap when they spring it.. then yeah you're done. But, this is something that generally only happens once, then people wise up and either figure out how to deal with it or go back to highsec. Which means that pirates usually end up shooting scouts (who invariably drop crappy loot), rookies, and other pirates. Also pirates go through a lot of ships - a pirate gang sitting on a gate is an attractive target it its own right. And you're right.. pirates do find you. If you happen to be bait, that's bad for them . What this all means is that pirates tend to be poor. Your brain is your biggest asset in avoiding them (use the starmap, scout ahead, etc) and your wallet is your biggest asset in dealing with them if you do get caught - if you're dealing with a reputable pirate corp (and no that's not an oxymoron) you can ransom your way out of a camp for a lot less than it would cost to get a new ship if you're flying something T2. ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
Neaon Sadari	Posted - 2008.01.12 17:18:00 - [135] I also belive that Low-sec should be more profitable, im kinda new to the whole scene but im the type of guy that wants to be shot at and not in ''safe hi-sec carebear land'' though right now thats where i am, i took a trip into lowsec and stayed there for a couple of weeks, compared to the mission runing up near jita the money (rating) i was making there was actualy alot worse. =/ I also sugest a buff too ore/rat spawns to lure noobs like me there, i want to play there but the risk ratio is too high and making any large profit for my self while mabe geting the odd ship blow up dident happen. (though i know how to be alot safer now ;) Id say many people who are interested in the pvp aspect would just mission run then head straight to 0.0 when ready, what im planing anyway. Thats sad and needs fixed.
Aaron	Posted - 2008.01.12 20:02:00 - [136] Originally by: Nur Vadenn Originally by: Aaron The only way to make lowsec safer, is for massive amounts of new players to come live in 0.0. Ive been quite busy for the last couple of years organising things, Ive been living in a 0.0 and slowly building a corp that was specifically designed to help new players get into lowsec. Over the last few years I have gathered a complete set of original T1 bluprints for every ship and module. I have a vast minerals hanger, jump clones, anything most new players need. I implore new players from any race/background to come live with me, u dont have to join my corp, however if u did it would make it easier for us to protect you. Most things u need will be on the market at an affordable cost, Together we will help make 0.0 safer, using teamwork as a weapon. Im also a good mentor, for PVP and ratting. I "liberated" a 5 day old player from the clutches of empire, 2 to 3 weeks later using a drake hes able to tank 3 rat battleships for a very long time. So consider my offer carefully, u wont get many like this. Boys and girls, this is what we like to call a TRAP. Low-sec space is populated by murderers, thieves, and starving criminals. There is no good reason for people to go there except to shoot other people in the face. If you're there to actually do anything else you end up spending more than half of your time eluding that next guy frothing at the mouth for a killmail. Why pirates don't give up trying to dupe people into going to low-sec and just shoot each other I don't understand. No, this is not a trap Vadenn, it is a genuine offer. Im not trying to dupe anyone into comming to 0.0 i will just tell it like it is. Yes u will get pod killed by the local enemies, yes u will lose ships , and u will get camped. however this does not happen all the time. Where I am in 0.0 i am not looking for anymore targets as i have enuff already. Im simply one man whose been playing since 2003, I have managed to build the corp to a certain level but cannot go any further without help, Do u really think ive got time to recruit new players, get them to join my corp then kill them?? It takes a very brave pilot to live in 0.0 Vadenn? If you acctually take the time to convo me, you will soon see that i am genuine and i am just trying to help build a safe haven in 0.0. Its illogical of you to slander my name without having any facts to backup your belief.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.12 20:46:00 - [137] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Venkul Mul No, in Egghelende . Errr, Egghelende is not a good idea, it's one of the more famous pirate systems ;) I know, I was 3 day old in my beautiful new atron . Originally by: Venkul Mul Beside your need to use ad ominem attacks, it is still not convenient to rat in low sec instead of 0.0, 0.0 is far from convenient. I mean, really. Against low sec? For me it give some good isk (the term convenient as some different meaning in English from my intended use, sorry if it was misleading) Originally by: Venkul Mul mining in low sec give little more than high sec and as constant harassing (in high sec I can mine for hours without problems, in 0.0 in can mine more profitable ores and I can still mine for hours) so why I would stay in low sec? It's very easy to rat in a frig/AF/destroyer in low-sec and be very safe. Safespotting once every half hour is hardly a problem... Granted, I can do easily exploration, ratting and even trading in a blockade runner in low sec (on the other hand I have 2 years of experience and decent skills). But I like to mine too and run missions, in most low sec system I will interrupted too much to make it interesting and worthwhile. Originally by: Venkul Mul I have lived for months in low sec with one of my characters, because I was getting some R&D agents and standings there, with a noob character going from frigates to BC but that didn't make it convenient for a general use. You can harp about how beautiful is your little corner forever, most low sec see unfriendly visits ever half hors or so, making it unsafe for most uses. Unfriendly visit every half hour or so doesn't make it problematic. Depend on what you want to do, and it was in deep low sec in Minmatar space, in a fairly benign spot. My only loss to pirates was for using a speedy frigate with low tank and jumping in a smartbomb gatecamp (one recently put up as there were no kill on the map). I concur that low sec can be a good location for some activities (rating, exploring, moon mining) but not for two of the basic player activities: mining and mission running. I think one of the limits in mining is the choice made in the past by CCP to make the low sec/0.0 ores massive and requiring large amount to refine. Probably a modifier in the quantity mined for each cycle instead of a more massive ore would have been a better solution. It would have made ninja mining in a cruiser or even a frigate possible (while with the massive ores we have today it is impossible to move significative quantities with those ships). To make a RL paragon, searching gold (or the emerald miners in south America and so on) the people spend a lot of time to get a small quantity of mineral but it is worth a lot even before refining and it is possible to move small amounts with ease. Even if copper today has a high worth (and a copper mine can make you rich), no one is going with a mule and pan to search for copper, because he will need to refine tons of ore to get a good return, so a industrial structure is needed. A idea to make low sec interesting for mining could be to add some ore with good quantity of high end minerals in little space, but with low quanity for each cycle. To make an example a "jaspet nodule" with the same concentration of minerals of a full load of jaspet (500 units, 1000 m3), requiring the same time to mine of 1000 m3 of jaspet, but using only 10 m3 of space. Make them only 2-3 asteroids for belt, with only 1 load of the mineral and mining in a frigate or cruise will become interesting as the player will need to move from spot to spot fast (an not at the 100 m/s of a barge or at its lumbering warp speed) with some return, without the need to abandon hours of mining in a jetcan if a unknown warp in the system. Keeping the mining time the same needed for the bulkier ores would keep the prices in balance at the current levels.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.12 20:48:00 - [138] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/01/2008 20:54:06 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Venkul Mul No, in Egghelende . Errr, Egghelende is not a good idea, it's one of the more famous pirate systems ;) BTW, now I have a R&D agent there and every so often I visit him, but now I can use the right ships for the job. Just to add it, while I don't like the people that try to force players to move in low sec with suggestion like "move all level 3 and 4 agents in low sec", cap isk generation from trade, nerf production in high sec and so on, I am not really convinced that nerfing piracy to oblivion as someone suggest is a solution. To be honest I don't see a "definitive" solution and the current situation isn't so bad. The most useful solution probably would be to increase low sec number of systems, with new entry points for the new areas.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.13 00:45:00 - [139] hello kitty Trashed sig, Shark was here
SirMoric	Posted - 2008.01.13 01:01:00 - [140] I say, leave low-sec as it is. The only people complaining about the lack of people in low-sec are the pirates living there.... and guess what... they're the reason people from high-sec don't go there. Two ways of solving this, one is nerf high-sec. But if you keep nerfing missions and rewards for living in a peacefull corner of the world, people will simply start leaving the game. The other is making the rewards even higher from living in low-sec, but that won't make people come to low-sec, only raising the income of the pirates already living there. So, leave it as it is. rgds PS: The most stupid and mindless feature of this game is indeed gatecamps. There has to be other ways of tackling warping ships rather than setting up at an gate.
Xanduz	Posted - 2008.01.13 21:06:00 - [141] Fist off I've been living in a 0.3 sys for 2 years so no flaming about me not knowing anything about lowsec. These are changes that is intended to boost lowsec for the majority and make it a better growing ground for corporations. To make lowsec more accessable to ALL the gate camping has to go, sry pvpers but that's a must. Today lowsec is more dangerous than 0.0 because of the camps and lowsec should be less safe than highsec but more safe than 0.0 To do this boost all lowsec sentry dps and more of them to a point where the dps will be more than any ship can bare. This will make lowsec accessable but NOT safe as pvp can happen everywhere BUT at gates and stations. We don't want anything like concord in lowsec. These changes will force pirates to scan down there prey and not just camp a gate and kill anything moving and is not bad as scanning prey down is so useful in 0.0 to. Second thing to change is the meens to make isk in low sec, here is how it is today: 1. POS is too hard for a soloplayer to manage, especially now when heavy dictors camp the gates making fuel to the POS allmost impossible to get and it's hard even for small corps. 2. Mining is a waste of time, there's way to high risk vs. reward for mining in lowsec. 3. Ratting is sub par, lvl 3-4 missions is ALOT better. The old stationary complexes was a realy good isk making thing, but camping them was a big issue. The solutions for making rewards in lowsec higher? Easy: 1. Boost all explorations to much higher rewards. 2. Better types of ore in lowsec to level/boost the risk vs. reward so it more reward than risk. 3. Better moons to harvest BUT it has to be worse than 0.0 as the corporations forming in lowsec is suppose to want to move to 0.0 when there large enough and have the isk and experience. Today this is more or less impossible, there's NOTHING worth doing in lowsec to raise isk and isk is the one thing beside size and experience that's needed for claiming a area of 0.0 space and surviving there. (Empire lvl4 missions is a good isk income atm, but it's NOT used in lowsec for a reason so I have not mentioned it here as a source of isk) This will make lowsec to a growing ground for moving to 0.0 as intended in the first place. Then there's the issue with the pirates living in lowsec. They too need to be able to do what they like, kill others. First thing is to allow dictors to launch bubbles in lowsec for taking ships out of warp in between gates. This will make traveling in lowsec far from safe if someone warp from gate to gate, but it will be possible to avoid all camps when moving from system to system if the player is smart. Then joining a corporation that not only do pvp will be necessary and be in there pvp wing to fight wars and protect miners and so on (there will not be enough rewards for a pvp only corp based in lowsec). All in all they still will be able to pvp but not as they used to do it. It will be harder, but then that's the point. We want pvp by not piracy in lowsec. 0.0 will offer the gatecamping option if that is a must, join a 0.0 corporation and camp gates 24/7 if so. If these changes to lowsec make more corporations big/rich and experinced enough to claim there own area of 0.0 space, population in 0.0 will get higher and gatecamping and pvp in 0.0 will benefit many times over as the rewards get higher with more players in 0.0 Pls post your feedback.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.01.13 21:35:00 - [142] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Are you joking Branko? I tried to laugh but I couldn't. The way I see it in-game and forums, pirates do have so much advantages in-game. Nobody finds pirates and pirates find you! It is the anti-pirates who really need a boost fighting pirates. We have to lure them and then fight against uneven odds. Piracy is easy mode and anti-pirates is hard mode in Eve. That's rubbish Jenny, and I think you know it. The vast majority of 'low-sec' pilots cant be called pirates: theyre just opportunists. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Krows Resource Reallocators Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.13 21:43:00 - [143] Anyone care to do a search function and find that old "How I want low-sec to be" thread that actually made low sec a very frightening and decrepit place? I'd love to see low sec as that area filled with rundown stations with deadly gas cloud constellations (which may have powerful rats of some kind- yadda yadda incentive). Honestly now, how many of you want to see more areas like the toxic gas cloud in the Recon mission series? I certainly do. The game environments all look the same throughout galaxy, 0.0 is for the most part a serene trip through empty space (if you watch the map of course) and low-sec is just hi-sec without concord. Part of the incentive to low-sec should not just be profits but the very fact that it is different from hi-sec, and not just in its engagement patterns.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.13 21:51:00 - [144] Originally by: Cailais That's rubbish Jenny, and I think you know it. The vast majority of 'low-sec' pilots cant be called pirates: theyre just opportunists. C. So we don't even have the same meaning for "pirate", hard to get something useful then from this discussion.
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Empire Research	Posted - 2008.01.13 22:06:00 - [145] Low Security needs more ISK. _____________________________ Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co. Part of the Empire Research Alliance Look us up in Nomaa or Itamo to join!
Asharee Intrefer	Posted - 2008.01.14 00:28:00 - [146] I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my two cents: Add CONCORD/faction cops that engage on pod kills. I don't mind risking a ship or two, but being flung halfway across the galaxy is a pain in the ass. The the -12.5% hit for podding isn't much of a penalty for someone already down towards -10, and they gain the benefit of having the victim ending up at a safe distance in case it's someone who wouldn't mind getting in a pvp fitted ship and settle the score. Maybe there could also be some sort of system that makes anyone who recently committed a criminal act show up like a flashing red blip on a system scan, available as a target to anyone, so it gets somewhat more challenging to safespot until sentry aggro runs out.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.14 02:19:00 - [147] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 14/01/2008 02:22:55 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 14/01/2008 02:19:44 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/01/2008 15:17:10 I think CCP should give anti-pirates more incentives in low-secs. I say give anti-pirates some state of the art special spaceships with extra bonuses to kill people with -2.0 and below. These special spaceships could only be flown by pilots with +4.0 sec ratings and above. And killing pirates would not cause sec. hits to anti-pirates. Make anti-pirates the new force of volunteer Concord agents in low secs please. You depress me. I once had your autograph in my mail box . What happened...oh thats right.......gong....sold. You don't get security hits for killing outlaws (-5.0) toots . And a negative sec status (>-4.9) does not always mean pirate. In fact.....I want to be able to use my hacking skills to bypass hisec gate security and bribe the hisec guardians to leave me alone for a set period of time so I can come to...errrr....shop "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2008.01.14 03:11:00 - [148] raep itt _________________ Burn.
Robert0288 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:28:00 - [149] low sec IS safe, so long as you know whats going on. 1) get to know your nieghbours and fellow residence around the constalation, know who are pies, who are neuts and who will come help you if your getting pecked to death by an inty. 2) make multiple safespots in the sytem, 2 per gate @ 250km+ out or so in random direction, couple of deep safespots, and a couple which are close together and you just constantly warp in between. 3) always check local, goes back to #1, if you know your locals if you see hostile jump in, go to safespot or dock up, if a neut jumps in assume hes hostile untill proven otherwise. if that doesn't work for you go to #4 4) always have scanner open when hostiles and neuts are in system, this will give you a heads up if they are near your belts/heading toward you, as well as the type of ships they fly. I've lived in low sec for a while, and i've only ever lost a single badger, and that was b/c I was bad luck, tank hyp sitting on other side of gate, and I still almost made it out. Living in low sec is alot of fun once you learn some self-preservation skills, b/w high sec sucks.
Robert0288 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:31:00 - [150] b/w 0.0 is even safer than low sec, just find some empty backwater non-claimed area with little to no traffic and you can rat to your hearts content, so long as you SS up when ANYONE comes into local especially with most alliances running NBSI in 0.0

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