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Dave Day
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Posted - 2004.03.21 18:49:00 -
[1]
Great to see the influx of new players but what's the max that can play before they need to think about splitting the servers? Any ideas?
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Titan48
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Posted - 2004.03.21 18:50:00 -
[2]
Alot
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Dave Day
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Posted - 2004.03.21 18:52:00 -
[3]
Thanks, that was about as much help to me as a chocolate teapot.......Anyone else?
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Styrmir
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Posted - 2004.03.21 18:55:00 -
[4]
There is no plan to split the Eve world. They will just add new nodes for more people. They have plans to accommodate tens of thousands if they get that many 
Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.03.21 18:58:00 -
[5]
Well they can take alot just not everybody in the same system. If number of players keep rising in this way than maybe ccp should reconsider the superhighways as traffic is always high there.
__________
Capacitor research |
Reptar
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Posted - 2004.03.21 19:51:00 -
[6]
they said in an old dev blog that they could support over 10k with the upgrades they did
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Darkcraft
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Posted - 2004.03.21 19:57:00 -
[7]
The question is whether we'll break 9k having passed 8.5k already
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Vistilantus
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:03:00 -
[8]
The best thing CCP can do is NEVER shard eve, i really hope they never will.
~Vistilantus
~I don't Have an attitude problem, YOU have a perception problem. |
Reptar
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:26:00 -
[9]
hmm a shared eve could be fun starting from the bottom again, wonder if there is a limit to how much it can take with current technology and where it becomes non economically viable
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:42:00 -
[10]
Splitting the EVE servers would be VERY bad. The fact there is only one is one of the main points of EVE.
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FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
Lord Azraiel
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:47:00 -
[11]
It is well over 10,000 players. IIRC, the number was like 50k total, but mind you thats not all in one spot.
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:55:00 -
[12]
Well I seem to be CTD a lot, and things seem a bit laggy and we are only at 8.5K peeps.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:57:00 -
[13]
8849 logged in when I just logged on
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.03.21 20:58:00 -
[14]
 Quote:
Splitting the EVE servers would be VERY bad. The fact there is only one is one of the main points of EVE.
Yeah, definately. What would happen to claimed space if we had 5 worlds?
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Mirimon
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Posted - 2004.03.21 21:34:00 -
[15]
I hope they never split the server....that would be a MAJOR bummer. One server is what makes it so cool because everyone is in ONE large universe.
"Then I guess I have no choice...but to kill you all." |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.21 21:41:00 -
[16]
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows 
Join the IC! |
voogru
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Posted - 2004.03.21 21:44:00 -
[17]
Quote:
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows
Hmm, Is each solarsystem on another node then? That would require an insane amount of nodes
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Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
Karunel
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Posted - 2004.03.21 21:47:00 -
[18]
Nope, each node hosts a good bunch of systems, afaik.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2004.03.21 22:50:00 -
[19]
Quote:
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows
172 in Luminaire was the top I saw today, altho I think that 100 per system, scattered across the whole universe is theoretically possible, but actually impossible to do... imagine ppl logging on just to prove it can handle
Oh wait!
_______________________________________________
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Brunis
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Posted - 2004.03.21 22:52:00 -
[20]
Well the lag today when the almost 9000 people was on was no to bad, but im think this might be the top of what the servers can take withput making it all lag and no play
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Murdoc
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Posted - 2004.03.21 23:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Murdoc on 21/03/2004 23:39:26
I don't get it when people say they get more lag when the server numbers go up ..I played just fine today. Same FPS I got when the servers went live. there was only about 2000 to 3000 people online then.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.03.21 23:49:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Edited by: Murdoc on 21/03/2004 23:39:26
I don't get it when people say they get more lag when the server numbers go up ..I played just fine today. Same FPS I got when the servers went live. there was only about 2000 to 3000 people online then.
I get the same experience. The only time I notice significantly more lag is when a gate is very busy or some other thing is going on to bring a lot of ships together in one place (an event, fleet battle, etc). I would guess that Orestes is correct that the servers can handle 100 per system or thereabouts - assuming they're spread evenly. Of course the load isn't evenly spread, but I can't see why even double the current population would cause any major problems except for some slowdown in places like Yulai.
Just be thankful stuckification is a thing of the past!
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
haggis
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Posted - 2004.03.21 23:51:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Edited by: Murdoc on 21/03/2004 23:39:26
I don't get it when people say they get more lag when the server numbers go up ..I played just fine today. Same FPS I got when the servers went live. there was only about 2000 to 3000 people online then.
Uhh... the frames-per-second are all down to your computer, not server-side, they don't stream the graphics to your computer, you see.
And I definately experienced lag, but my isp has been ****ty lately, having said that, it doesn't seem to be my connection, because I haven't really been using up any extra bandwidth with the extra players, so it would suggest that its completely server-side.
As for how many players the server can take, I don't think people should worry, more players means more money for ccp, means they can add more nodes, and so, eventually, if the numbers do keep going up, we may one day have a node per-system, YES, 5000 NODES! And I take it there's nothing stopping ccp from upgrading the nodes?
Lets not forget that space can be expanded, more systems can be added, maybe some day the eve-gate will be opened up... naturally, that might actually attract even more players .
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Pan Jin
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Posted - 2004.03.21 23:52:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Hmm, Is each solarsystem on another node then? That would require an insane amount of nodes
A node is a connection point for a client (you). The nodes are linked together and share information with eachother. Afaik its the same principle as an IRC server, whereby you can connect to any server on a network but any data you sent is mirrored to every server and therefore anyone it concerens
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.03.22 00:31:00 -
[25]
Quote:
A node is a connection point for a client (you). The nodes are linked together and share information with eachother. Afaik its the same principle as an IRC server, whereby you can connect to any server on a network but any data you sent is mirrored to every server and therefore anyone it concerens
Some things are distributed to every client, like chat and map data, but a lot of data is only distributed to the ppl in the same system or even in the same grid. If all data was to be distributed to all nodes, the whole point with having nodes would be lost.
The point with having a irc-server-network is for another reason - to be able to connect to a server nearby, to be able to distribute load across internet more efficiently and similar. With eve, all servers are at the same location, and clients can be anywhere. There is no point in having a server network across the globe - althogh that could actually be possible, but would surely lead to serious problems.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 22/03/2004 01:13:48
Say that again mining with a full set of drones, I was showing slides of harvesters passing... 
Ok so I only lost one till I learned to operate in the mess proper.
I also would like to go on the record stating that I don't usually mine, this was to apeace the public.
Convert Stations
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Cuisinart
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:32:00 -
[27]
Last i heard, the current system was designed to support 10,000 players. If that has changed, I haven't seen it written anywhere.
On a side note, I was actually involved in a battle today with numbers of about 25-30 and though it was a little laggy it was playable. Most impressive, I thought for sure with the high turn out that it would be a lagfest.
Vision without action is a daydream
Action without vision is a nightmare |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.22 04:44:00 -
[28]
Could the lag issue be based on the connection. I have a modem 56k and CTD ALOT. It only started after the last two patches.
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Xelios
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Posted - 2004.03.22 05:46:00 -
[29]
They've updated the cluster since that estimate Cuisinart. Kieron said today on the eve radio interview that the cluster is nowhere near capacity yet, I suspect they've gotten it raised up to 15-20,000 simultaneous users, but don't quote me on that.
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Luvalot
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Posted - 2004.03.22 05:57:00 -
[30]
I heard 25k when I first started this game back in June. But that was when lag was horrible at 6k users, so I don't know how far it will go.
That being said, playing today with 8k+ really didn't lag things for me at all. CCP has done alot to the cluster since I left in Sept.
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Joebob McSkittle
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Posted - 2004.03.22 06:32:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Well they can take alot just not everybody in the same system. If number of players keep rising in this way than maybe ccp should reconsider the superhighways as traffic is always high there.
Very smooth... I don't think that CCP will get rid of the highway systems. That would be really stupid, unless they like loosing customers.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.03.22 08:30:00 -
[32]
2 servers would be nice - 1 for PA and 1 for the rest of the players 
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2004.03.22 09:24:00 -
[33]
It did start getting a bit laggy in the busy empire systems when the record was hit, with some corp mates ahveing trrouble jumping into a system and having to relog. Was also slow jumping between some systems.
I think they need to open up Polaris space and Jove space. These areas must be there for expansion.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Iznogud
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Posted - 2004.03.22 09:30:00 -
[34]
Quote:
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows
then explain the lag when 40 ships are in battle 
http://www.shinra.com/
Shinra Republic Artillery-round deliver
Izno~
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CKOZUK
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Posted - 2004.03.22 09:36:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Quote:
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows
then explain the lag when 40 ships are in battle
Next time your in a 40 ship battle check you FPS it may well be your system lagging not EVE.
The above text is my own views which may not represent my corps views.
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Taumenka
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:58:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Taumenka on 22/03/2004 13:02:40
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows
then explain the lag when 40 ships are in battle
Next time your in a 40 ship battle check you FPS it may well be your system lagging not EVE.
Seeing the diffrence between the three slowdowns that can occur is rather difficult (as far as i noticed there is no FPS -> incoming packages from server rate limiter or is there ?)
The three types beeing:
1. Serverside slowdowns
2. Latency aggregation, i.e "lagg" (³ber commonly missused word)
3. Client side slowdowns eg FPS slowdowns (might depend on CPU RAM or GFX card)
As for 1 here is where the Max users on server limit is, don''t think this is ever a problem.
#2 probably where many problems occur that are unindentifiable and problems are hopefully seldom at the ccp server clusters internet connection, most probably your local ISP or at an GIX (almost cretainly here, as a sidenote: One of the major swedish GIX:es got about 5-70% packet loss and that is during normal operation, doubt this figure is much better at other places, definitivly a big pro if your ISP got a direct link (aka is "peered")to the english one CCP is using, i know mine hasn't/isn't, takes swim over to NY then back to UK  ) where your "lagg" is created.
And for number 3 this is why CCP set specs on hardware demands, probably why some large scale battles etc creates problems with certain low end systems.
Drink StarsiÖ
Are you Caldari enough?
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.03.22 13:20:00 -
[37]
The server at its current state can handle 25000 online at once, 100k active subscriptions, and 200k subscriptions total.
Of course, they can add servers. But there will still be a limit on the number of players per system, as only one server can manage each system (you can't have two servers per system). So they'll have to create extra highway systems.
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kwoodward
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Posted - 2004.03.22 13:34:00 -
[38]
since a few patches ago did they intoduce some new Fog effects, this
FOG-O-LAG, has been cause my compy some serious FPS isues latly  were as before i had no probs just wodering if anything had changed?
Meow! |
Lord Azraiel
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Posted - 2004.03.22 17:43:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Quote:
A whole lot of players.
Say, 100 safe (ish) per system, with about 5000 systems in total. Would be safe to say that 50000 concurrent users is possible.
Then again, I'm not Hellmar, so who knows
then explain the lag when 40 ships are in battle
He didnt say 100 ships in each system that are all in the same area. Plus, it is probably your computer not able to chug the graphics. I've been in a 100 ship battle and my fps was fine and dandy. ACtivation of modules on the other hand, didnt go so well. That was probably due to the fact that there were 99 other guys all trying to activate their ****, and all that info being sent around by this one node, which was a pretty poor one, and it having to send info on ship placement and all that yadayada.
One tip to GREATLY GREATLY increase your fps is to hit CTRL+TAB. However, you will not beable to chat in game, use your neocom, use the scanner, all that will be available will be the module activation bits, drone bay button, cargo button, scanner button, and autopilot. The only two of which will actually be usefull is the modules and autopilot. You also loose the message box which can be bad. BUT IT GREATLY BOOSTS YOUR FPS.
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
haggis
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Posted - 2004.03.22 18:33:00 -
[40]
I think most people can tell between server lag and merely crappy fps ...
I for one believe people when they say they were getting server-side lag with 40 ships in a system.
I certainly notice increased lag when there are alot of players, more than 6000, and no, its not fps, I'm not that stupid ... and, heck, there doesn't even have to be many people in the system for it to happen...
Perhaps people are having different experiences due to their routes to the nodes?
Are nodes situated close to each other? This is a crazy thought, but maybe the 'route' to the nodes (just the last few hops of getting there) gets bogged down? It would certainly explain my situation.
I'd really like someone with technical expertise to explain this all to me, are the nodes scattered throughout the globe or not? I know that some are, but are the ones that are just for menial tasks such as authentication, or are there more than those mentioned by ccp that do bigger things, yet are also gound throughout the globe? Are my thoughts on the routes completely ludicrous?
Any help most appreciated :) .
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Ithilgore
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Posted - 2004.03.22 18:41:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Well I seem to be CTD a lot, and things seem a bit laggy and we are only at 8.5K peeps.
Try to clear out the dust from your pc's fans.
I used to ctd a lot, but now that i got myself a new fan, i havent had a single ctd in ages!
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Taumenka
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Posted - 2004.03.30 10:17:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Perhaps people are having different experiences due to their routes to the nodes?
Are nodes situated close to each other? This is a crazy thought, but maybe the 'route' to the nodes (just the last few hops of getting there) gets bogged down? It would certainly explain my situation.
I'd really like someone with technical expertise to explain this all to me, are the nodes scattered throughout the globe or not? I know that some are, but are the ones that are just for menial tasks such as authentication, or are there more than those mentioned by ccp that do bigger things, yet are also gound throughout the globe? Are my thoughts on the routes completely ludicrous?
Any help most appreciated :) .
As i said Lagg not server side slow-downs or FPS but Lagg and that is created just as you describes it here By certain routes to the system in question beeing "bogged down" with other non-eve related IP traffic (the usual HTTP/FTP and various filesharing streams(high probability of this beeing a major problem)).
In a little experiment i tried EVE on a friends computer that has another swedish ISP that has a 8 Hops to 157.157.139.10 (eve-login server) and 38 ms avg ping to that server. My ISP don't have this excellent connection and has decided that routing the traffic via New York is much more efficent (nut cases), bolstering my avg sunday ping to 293 ms and a 28 hop trip to 157.157.139.10!
During the 12 hour testing this last sunday with the "huge amount of logged in players" i didn't experience a single disconnect or unexplained hang.
Changing ISP ASAP btw.
Think of the nodes as a bunch of computers placed on the same network then the 157.157.139.10 machine beeing the "external access point" to that network i.e a "front door" and the nodes beeing the rooms of the house (damn i'm good at this explaining stuff). So network congestion between diffrent nodes is very unlikely.
So in short:
Yes your toughts on diffrent routes are correct.
No the nodes are in the same "area" (probably the same physical server room but not 100% sure this is the case) at least virtually the same network. And the login server is probably also one or more machines acting as one loadbalancing login requests
The login server then hands the logged in customer over to the node where your avatar was last active. i.e a station node or if you where in space any other node you might have been on.
I.e a clear case of network lagg (see earlier comments on lagg) is when you notice your shield decreasing without any enemys around and then suddenly 4 NPC:s appear orbiting around you! 
Hope this explains and helps a bit.
Drink StarsiÖ
Are you Caldari enough?
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qrac
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Posted - 2004.03.30 10:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: qrac on 30/03/2004 10:56:37
Quote:
In a little experiment i tried EVE on a friends computer that has another swedish ISP that has a 8 Hops to 157.157.139.10 (eve-login server) and 38 ms avg ping to that server.
which swedish isp is it?
i know it's not felia at least
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Chronos Chi
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:05:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Chronos Chi on 30/03/2004 11:06:06
i think its iceland-telecom-ltd.
"Computer games donÆt affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, weÆd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitve electonic dance music..." |
Taumenka
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:05:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Taumenka on 30/03/2004 11:08:37
I got the ISP you almost named, my friend got BBB(c)(R)(tm) and he got almost as "close" of a connection as some UK players i found on another post.
Another friend also got BBB(c)(R)(tm) and he has 11 hops and 48 ms avg to 157.157.139.10 (Refused to let me test-play EVE tough  )
Do anyone else got above named ISP and have a good connection that is (the formerly state owned telecompany that supplies ADSL that we almost named above) and has the same lousy results as I have?
Drink StarsiÖ
Are you Caldari enough?
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Nyuusen
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:29:00 -
[46]
how does one find out how many hops it is to ip addresses?
Nyuusen
Ceo The Triad Alliance |
Taumenka
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:37:00 -
[47]
A traceroute tells you the number of Hops to a specific host.
In a command prompt running on Windoze: tracert 157.157.139.10
Or under U*NX do at a prompt: traceroute 157.157.139.10
The number of hops to the last host that isn't firewalled will be displayed in the leftmost colum. Note that this might not be the total number of hops where the count stops nor where it usually ends at 30 hops that is standard under windoze.
Drink StarsiÖ
Are you Caldari enough?
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Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:38:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Edited by: Taumenka on 30/03/2004 11:08:37
I got the ISP you almost named, my friend got BBB(c)(R)(tm) and he got almost as "close" of a connection as some UK players i found on another post.
Another friend also got BBB(c)(R)(tm) and he has 11 hops and 48 ms avg to 157.157.139.10 (Refused to let me test-play EVE tough )
Do anyone else got above named ISP and have a good connection that is (the formerly state owned telecompany that supplies ADSL that we almost named above) and has the same lousy results as I have?
 #%ñ#&/ñ%/(%&/ i shouldnt have moved from my BBB dammit
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Kusami
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Posted - 2004.03.30 14:25:00 -
[49]
I'm sure that when one system gets too bogged down with traffic, other nodes controling zones with less traffic disconnect and help out the over swamped node. They probably really havn't had a chance to stress this system much until recently though, and they probably made changes and optimizations.
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Qwakrz
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Posted - 2004.03.30 14:42:00 -
[50]
* Some of this is suposition based on my experience of 2 accounts and the various things that happen *
Because of the way eve works, it seems to only sends update inforamtion to and from the server, thus if a drone is drawn stutterly across the screen this is down to your PC & not lagg from the server. It is your PC that decides the direction, speed and location of the drone to draw & it has nothing to do with the server. All the server gets is something like "Drone launched, start location, direction (orbit), speed" the server and your PC should agree about any collisions etc & check themselves periodically. This is why when warping you occasionally see yourself fly backwards a bit when entering / exiting warp as the 2 systems sync up. It also explains why you can keep flying when the system is lagged but you will jump back when the systems re-sync, the server did not know you moved and so requests that you get put back as it is the master.
When grahpics and system lagg are removed I think most people are seeing lagg generated by network congestion and not CCP server problems. It is possible that CCP's bandwidth is being underestimated by their net provider and they are trying to get it all down a small pipe that introduces lagg. I have noticed that when I do something in eve the ammount of packet transfer goes through the roof for a second, I have seen peeks as high as 65K/s which max's out my net connection. I have faith in the servers & CCP, I have never had much faith in telecoms companies that have to be cheaper than each other, something has to give for the price.
I beleve it is time for CCP to look closely at optimising the network infrastructure as well as the server connections.
BTW, the tracert for some of us in the UK is blocked by Iceland-Telecom and we cannot trace past 166.63.217.6 so cannot get a good ping but this server is located in Thamesside so it is in London.
** To view the stats of your connection (Packets & Bytes in out, along with outstanding packets) press CTRL + ALT + SHIFT + M in game**
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Daxit
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Posted - 2004.03.30 20:47:00 -
[51]
Quote:
BTW, the tracert for some of us in the UK is blocked by Iceland-Telecom and we cannot trace past 166.63.217.6 so cannot get a good ping but this server is located in Thamesside so it is in London.
true... oddly enough, my connection from Eastern US was under 50ms average until jumping the pond to a 105ms avg... then hit iceland-telecom with a whopping 330ms avg before have the traceroute blocked.
I have played at differing times with various numbers of players online and had such a myriad of results that I actually believe most of the time CCP's servers are running fine. I've had insane lag with 3k players before. I've had near zero lag with 8.5k players *shrug*. |
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