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Naviset	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:20:00 - [31] Edited by: Naviset on 15/01/2008 20:21:20 Originally by: Kruel CCP hire this man. He can't be any worse than Zulupark and at least his ideas sound practical. Except the part about giving all the Amarr ships wonderful bonuses, boosting the Armageddon and the Abaddon which are already balanced (Boosting from balance = unbalance btw :-p). And giving an optimal bonus to the geddon is quite ridiculous. I think the Amarr changes need a more targetted approach, rather than a blanket boost. This is simply because Amarr has many good ships despite all the pointless complaining, and a blanket boost for amarr would make all these good ships even better, which is a certainly questionable tactic.
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:44:00 - [32] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 15/01/2008 20:45:37 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: TigerWoman optimal bonus on any amarr bs would be overpowered. Hmm, why? -Liang Scorch L + Amarr BS V + tracking modules (or even tracking links) = pretty scary sniping range with megapulse. May even get to over 150km with skills. Does make sniping with beams more valuable though. I'm not really an amarr BS pilot - and it seems that the three amarr BS's are largely fine. I just didn't want to go back and say "okay, after all that we'll leave the amarr BS alone." I think it would be interesting to give the Arma/Apoc a hit point bonus. They are often plated anyway, so there's synergy there, plus it makes them last longer in fleet fights without enhancing their already good tanks (like a resist bonus would). Originally by: Kadavreski Terianna: i have nothing to add to this thread as i'm far to new to really know anything, but your sig is the best i've seen, you utter legend I like it too, but you're the first one to say anything about it. Thanks! Originally by: Naviset Edited by: Naviset on 15/01/2008 20:21:20 Originally by: Kruel CCP hire this man. He can't be any worse than Zulupark and at least his ideas sound practical. Except the part about giving all the Amarr ships wonderful bonuses, boosting the Armageddon and the Abaddon which are already balanced (Boosting from balance = unbalance btw :-p). And giving an optimal bonus to the geddon is quite ridiculous. I think the Amarr changes need a more targetted approach, rather than a blanket boost. This is simply because Amarr has many good ships despite all the pointless complaining, and a blanket boost for amarr would make all these good ships even better, which is a certainly questionable tactic. Hey, at least I didn't ask for the cap use bonus to be universally replaced with a damage bonus. The line of reasoning was that the two best bonuses for mid-range combat are optimal range (maintain range advantage) and tracking (be able to hit those that would otherwise dictate range against you). (Incidentally, I like to think that this is a reasonably "targeted" boost - that would be boring. There are specific bonuses granted to specific ships - I think it's the fifth post down on the first page.) I didn't want to add any of the following: 1. More tank 2. More dps 3. Less reliance on cap But I figured that if we made lasers reliable and powerful enough to be worth fitting, cap use, and working to maintain medium range, then we might see Amarran tactics, and ships, being used more often. Back to Amarr Battleships: I agree completely in that the Armageddon should have a tracking bonus. It gets used mostly with pulse lasers in small-medium gangs anyway, which is where a tracking bonus (reliably hitting things that may be moving quickly, from moderate range) would be most helpful. It also helps the fact that the Geddon, with only three mids, frequently goes without a web, let alone a tracking computer. I am not sure that an apocalypse with an optimal range bonus would be overpowered. A geddon, yes, but maybe not an apocalypse. The optimal bonus doesn't even have to be 10% - perhaps 5% would do, so that it can better reach sniping range, although I would prefer a full 10%. Finally (for this post at least), I'm not an expert on balancing weapom fitting requirements. That requires a comparison with other ships of the same class, an expectation of what a ship should "realistically" be able to fit, and so on. I'd prefer if we could keep fitting discussions mosstly out of this thread. General statements are fine but I don't want to see any numbers or specific setups. It's a fine topic but I don't want this thread getting derailed too badly. Okay, final final point for now: I don't want Amarr to be like flying another race, just with shinier ships and cooler "pew pew" noises. I think there's something to be said for keeping moderate range for as long as possible, if not indefinitely, so that by the time the enemy has maneuvered you into their desired position, they will have a hard time overcoming the amount of damage already placed on them. Incidentally I recently beat 2x well fit battlecruisers in a non-nano sac, by staying out of the preferred range of their guns and then repairing the reduced damage that actually got to me, which is why I think it is a reasonable tactic. I think it's entirely possible - and desirable - for combat in eve to occur at distances outside of 0-10KM and 150+KM. I'm pleased with the discussion going on here - keep it up guys ! __________________________________
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:31:00 - [33] Edited by: The Djego on 15/01/2008 21:35:34 Originally by: Naviset Edited by: Naviset on 15/01/2008 20:21:20 Originally by: Kruel CCP hire this man. He can't be any worse than Zulupark and at least his ideas sound practical. Except the part about giving all the Amarr ships wonderful bonuses, boosting the Armageddon and the Abaddon which are already balanced (Boosting from balance = unbalance btw :-p). And giving an optimal bonus to the geddon is quite ridiculous. I think the Amarr changes need a more targetted approach, rather than a blanket boost. This is simply because Amarr has many good ships despite all the pointless complaining, and a blanket boost for amarr would make all these good ships even better, which is a certainly questionable tactic. Armagedon and Abaddon are not realy balanced. It is only the fact that they work great because of a high DPS Ability combined with a good Range makes them preaty usefull. I know It is quite strange when agreeing and disagreeing at the same time, but it is actual what I think. The Laser at it self combines extrem advantages(Range, DPS) with extrem disadvantages(Fitting, Cap use, short Range Tracking, EM/Thermal Damage fixed). If the Ship only provides the Cap use bonus its mostly not that good(simpy see Apoc, Prophecy, Maller) and also not that bad of if using Projekiels. So it realy depends if the second Bonus is DPS on a T1 Ship it is mostly ok but if the other Bonus is focused on tank it is mostly not that good because the Ship can¦t bring serious DPS to kill something before its cap out or be better in a Gang than a other Ship. The Cap use Bonus(stoneage for real), is long out of need for a serious amount of time now(serious there are no point to use a Laser on a non Amarr Ship in this times). Also giving out flat Bonus could overpower some ships realy easy i agree here. So I think like posted before the new "Advantage" should be come in with some Disadvantages as tradeoff to prevent a flat boost to the ships that work quite good atm and give a reason to use the Ships that don¦t work so good atm. Lasers should have diffrent advantages/disadvantages depending more at the ship, not on the weapon itself, like it is on the other Races. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Talani Fynolds I don't think you want an amarr BS with an optimal bonus. With scorch and some tracking mods you would get about 100km range. That doesn't feel right. Maybe amarr could make use of an effecive module, that reduces cap use of weapons. Effective means, that one is slightly worse than a typical ship bonus at level 5 and two are clearly better than that ship bonus. The rigs that exist now don't really make a difference. Exact the same thing that I had in mind about the Optimal Bonus. Even 25% are preaty powerfull and usefull on a Beam aswell as a Puls Setup. I would not mind to see the Range advantage is tradet for a Crystall with more DPS but on a Beam Setup you overcome even Rail Setups. Apoc is equal to the Pest(for about 10-15 Minutes before Cap becomes a Issue) and one slot short ot Mega and Rohk. Giving it the 25% Optimal would equal it to Rohk and Mega. 50% are a bit to mutch to balance out between Puls and Beams but 25% are good, even if the Bonus would end up a 0%(as I mentioned in my general Laser makeover it would give the extra Slot to become even). You can archive the goal to become balanced on many ways. I would realy prefere the way also change Lasers itself by the reason that it would be mutch more balanced because the Boni are more bound on the Ship instead of the Weapon itself. I personly would not try to bring in extra mods only for Amarr to archive balance, since this is realy hard to balance out in the End and only will create another must have. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Camulos Redne Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:59:00 - [35] against the optimal bonus as it would step on the rokh and other caldari sniper toes. I'd like more bonus to HP, but I like flying my plated gank boats. Tracking would be good. I'm not in favour of a 50% reduction across the board on lasers, 30-40% would be more inline I would think. 50% would make the harbringer, geddon, abaddon, very powerful imo. This is from an amarr who flys amarr in pvp.
TigerWoman	Posted - 2008.01.15 22:22:00 - [36] Originally by: TigerWoman optimal bonus on any amarr bs would be overpowered. Quote: Hmm, why? -Liang 10% optimal equal(bs5): -180 km optimal range with t2 tachs and aurora -67,5 km optimal range with t2 megapule and scorch -22,5 km optimal range with t2 megapulse and mf and thats without any mods for optimal (like tracking computers or enhancers). i think it would just make the amarr bs to good in fleets. the optimal bonus might be cool for some cruiser class ships though. the amarr bs could need some help on fitting and a bonus to help them a little with cap (esp for the long range setups and the "needed" mwd in 0.0). on the other hand you could make supertanker with a cap bonus when you use projectiles. to prevent that you could make guns race specific (amarr= only lasers, minmatar= only projectiles.... for the turret slots only though) which will hurt some setups which work currently with projectiles or hybrids (maller, prophecy, ac myrm .... ). that would steal a bit of diversity since you would limit that out of the box stuff.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.15 22:34:00 - [37] Originally by: TigerWoman 10% optimal equal(bs5): -180 km optimal range with t2 tachs and aurora -67,5 km optimal range with t2 megapule and scorch -22,5 km optimal range with t2 megapulse and mf Nice. I'm not sure tracking would be all that much "better" than optimal, tbh. I was always a fan of cap recharge or cap amount replacing the cap use bonus, but I've recently become a fan of a radical change in the overall way capacitor is handled in Eve. I've been intending to flesh out the details of how it might work, but haven't found the time. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
TigerWoman	Posted - 2008.01.15 23:46:00 - [38] Edited by: TigerWoman on 15/01/2008 23:47:45 don't get me wrong here, i fly amarr only but i dont wan't "us amarrs" to be overpowered and nerfed to hell 4 weeks later. another idea for that projectice super tanks: intruduce racial mali (this is pointed on the uber tanks you can get when you would have the cap bonus+capless weapons on 7 or 8 lowslot amarr ships, not at the standart minmatar ships) like this here: armageddon: 5% rof per bs lvl x% y for z 10% malus to dmg for projectiles/hybrids that would give the ac-blaster fittings of some amarr ships a clear tradeoff (you wanted to be tanky so scew your dmg-like)
Princess Xenia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Princess Xenia on 16/01/2008 00:20:11 My suggestion: Reduce cap usage of S laser guns by 50% M laser guns by 40% L laser guns by 30% XL laser guns by 20% Replace ALL 10% cap reduction bonus for T1 and T2 frig, destroyer, cruiser and battlecruiser class with OP suggested bonuses... If my idea is implemented... then we talk about fitting requirements of these laser turrets or lack og grid of Amarr ships... Leave the BS and capital 10% cap bonus alone... I believe BS and above Amarr are ok... (except Apocalypse and variants.. they need a complete overhaul)...
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:23:00 - [40] The Apoc sucks so bad atm, I don't think an optimal bonus would make it overpowered. If anything, it'd be useful for something other than smartbombing.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:25:00 - [41] Originally by: TigerWoman the amarr bs could need some help on fitting and a bonus to help them a little with cap (esp for the long range setups and the "needed" mwd in 0.0). on the other hand you could make supertanker with a cap bonus when you use projectiles. to prevent that you could make guns race specific (amarr= only lasers, minmatar= only projectiles.... for the turret slots only though) which will hurt some setups which work currently with projectiles or hybrids (maller, prophecy, ac myrm .... ). that would steal a bit of diversity since you would limit that out of the box stuff. yes, but projectiles have bad dps, the armor tanked min ships get a 5% rof and dmg bonus, where the shield tanked get 5% rof (they can fit dmg mods to make up for the other bonus) to make up for it. heh maybe a 5% pg per level, would help get them tachyons on nicely and zealot needs that 5th turret and a bit of fitting to fit it. (yes other ships like ferox and eagle too) a cap bonus (recharge or cap size) would be nice, as would an armor bonus (hp or resist), and both would be in amarr flavor.
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:44:00 - [42] I believe the abaddon needs a little work. The cap reduction would make the ship perfect. First, I'll say that I'm almost exclusively an abaddon pilot. The things that makes me so frustrated is trying to make the ship cap stable. For instance, lets take a simple setup. 1 LAR and a full set of lasers It would require 3 ccc rigs and 4 cap mods to make this cap stable. Other ships like the hyperion and mega can fit a similar setup with 2-3 less rigs/mods. This gives them a greater flexibility in their setups.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:54:00 - [43] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/01/2008 00:54:59 Originally by: Perfect Diamond For instance, lets take a simple setup. 1 LAR and a full set of lasers It would require 3 ccc rigs and 4 cap mods to make this cap stable. Other ships like the hyperion and mega can fit a hybrid setup with 2-3 less rigs/mods. This gives them a greater flexibility in their setups. OTOH, they're limited by their cargo hold. Your ammoless weapons makes your ships so versatile. I think, perhaps, that cap problems are meant to be a pain for Amarrian players. I don't think they need to be as severe as they are, but I'm not sure it'd be good for the Abaddon to have the same cap stability as the Hype or Mega. Quote: This also gives the opportunity for the ship to be possibly be a better tanker by adding armor rigs instead of ccc rigs. We currently have to races out tanking amarr. I thought amarr was suppose to be the tank kings. Try fitting a cap booster. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:56:00 - [44] Originally by: TigerWoman Originally by: TigerWoman optimal bonus on any amarr bs would be overpowered. Quote: Hmm, why? -Liang 10% optimal equal(bs5): -180 km optimal range with t2 tachs and aurora -67,5 km optimal range with t2 megapule and scorch -22,5 km optimal range with t2 megapulse and mf and thats without any mods for optimal (like tracking computers or enhancers). i think it would just make the amarr bs to good in fleets. the optimal bonus might be cool for some cruiser class ships though. I was going to leave this part out as I agreed with it, but on 2nd thought I like the optimal bonus amarr bs have to fit several fitting mods to get tachyons on, and a cap mod or two with 3x ccc to be cap stable. maybe drop the optimal bonus to 5% per level? 150km with tachs isn't that bad considering the required fitting mods/cap mods. and given that the apoc wouldn't get a damage bonus it wouldn't be overpowered.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:07:00 - [45] It has always been my perception that every amarr ship should be one of three things. Range of shortrange guns/dps with those. Dps/strong tank. Juggernaut tank/enough cap to support it. Following this ships like the geddon should get an optimal bonus with its rof,ships like the apoc should get a resist bonus so it has such a badass tank and the abaddon should remain the same. In doing this you maintain amarr as being a strictly a non ewar build but with strong dps(at a range)and or uber tank. Signature removed. Contains no Eve content. Navigator ([email protected])
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:08:00 - [46] Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 16/01/2008 01:09:07 It's plain impossible to get a t1 150km cap stable siege setup with the abaddon. :( I don't know the other races but I suppose their in the same boat. It's really hard to get a t2 setup past 150k unless you want to sacrifice all your damage. :( At 150km, a t2 abaddon can aprox 400-500 dps. Not sure how that compares.
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:32:00 - [47] Originally by: Princess Xenia Edited by: Princess Xenia on 16/01/2008 00:20:11 My suggestion: Reduce cap usage of S laser guns by 50% M laser guns by 40% L laser guns by 30% XL laser guns by 20% I'd go 50/50/40/30 personally (cruiser-class lasers do use a lot of cap), but I really like this idea. Makes the changing of bonuses more palatable because this way the (relatively) balanced BS's don't get boosted way out of proportion. __________________________________
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:39:00 - [48] Originally by: Liang Nuren OTOH, they're limited by their cargo hold. Your ammoless weapons makes your ships so versatile. Amarr ships have tiiiiiny cargoholds relative to those of other races - even when I load a full set of ammo in my hurricane I end up with more space for cap charges than I do in my harbinger. I don't ask for this to be changed but it is important to know that Amarr runs out of cap boosters faster than other races because: a) more modules online that use cap (lasers) b) less space in cargohold for charges Originally by: "Liang Nuren" I think, perhaps, that cap problems are meant to be a pain for Amarrian players. I don't think they need to be as severe as they are, but I'm not sure it'd be good for the Abaddon to have the same cap stability as the Hype or Mega. I agree, to a point. I think that Amarr should be more vulnerable to cap disruption than other races, but I also think that to counteract that they should be significantly harder to cap out. I'd say that in exchange for not being able to do much other than tank and shoot, they should be able to do that somewhat more effeciently and for a lot longer than other. Random aside - I'd like to see fewer setups with cap boosters and more reliance on capacitor recharge, but you need too many slots (and fitting, with cruiser-class ships) to make it viable. Have you even looked at the fitting requirements for a large cap battery? They're absurd! __________________________________
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:46:00 - [49] The large cap batteries are indeed insane. i think thats the only +cap/shield/armor module that is impossible to realistically fit on the tier below where it is supposed to go... disclaimer: Nothing i say, do, think, or once have said, done, nor thought about can be held against me
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Lance Fighter The large cap batteries are indeed insane. i think thats the only +cap/shield/armor module that is impossible to realistically fit on the tier below where it is supposed to go... I actually have one on one of my Zealots, but the ungodly CPU necessitates faction gear. LOTS OF FACTION GEAR __________________________________
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 16/01/2008 00:52:06 I believe the abaddon needs a little work. The cap reduction would make the ship perfect. First, I'll say that I'm almost exclusively an abaddon pilot. The things that makes me so frustrated is trying to make the ship cap stable. For instance, lets take a simple setup. 1 LAR and a full set of lasers It would require 3 ccc rigs and 4 cap mods to make this cap stable. Other ships like the hyperion and mega can fit a hybrid setup with 2-3 less rigs/mods. This gives them a greater flexibility in their setups. This boost would also give the opportunity for the abaddon to be a better tanker by adding armor rigs instead of ccc rigs. We currently have to races out tanking amarr. I thought amarr was suppose to be the tank kings. 8x mega pulse best named (use less cap than t2, t2 lasts for a while though, and can permarun 7 of them) 4x cap rechargers 2x lar, 1x cap power relay cap stable, beast of a tank for missions. and yes other ships require similar setups to permarun 2 lars cap boosters are interesting, in missions they are as you can generally run everything with cap rechargers. small gangs they let you run lots of things for a short while. and in large gangs well your primaried your dead, that and fights seem to last a while, by a while your out of cap boosters.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Terianna Eri Amarr ships have tiiiiiny cargoholds relative to those of other races - even when I load a full set of ammo in my hurricane I end up with more space for cap charges than I do in my harbinger. Yeah, but you don't need ammo, and you can stay out ratting for years on end without docking!!!1one Quote: I don't ask for this to be changed but it is important to know that Amarr runs out of cap boosters faster than other races because: a) more modules online that use cap (lasers) b) less space in cargohold for charges Hmm, the Sacrilege and Damnation seemed to have pretty sizable cargo holds. What's really sad here, though, is that the size of your cargo hold is the definition of how long you last in PVP these days. Quote: I agree, to a point. I think that Amarr should be more vulnerable to cap disruption than other races, but I also think that to counteract that they should be significantly harder to cap out. I'd say that in exchange for not being able to do much other than tank and shoot, they should be able to do that somewhat more effeciently and for a lot longer than other. Um, so I'm not understanding the difference between "cap disruption" and "be harder to cap out". You seem to be implying that it might take two or three neutralizers to cap out an Amarrian ship? Are you saying that a neutralizer should still cap you out quickly, but that you shouldn't naturally cap out just by running guns and a dual LAR tank? Quote: Random aside - I'd like to see fewer setups with cap boosters and more reliance on capacitor recharge, but you need too many slots (and fitting, with cruiser-class ships) to make it viable. Have you even looked at the fitting requirements for a large cap battery? They're absurd! LOL, yes. Yes indeed. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Ash'el Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:18:00 - [53] I think a small cap reduction in the order of 10% for laser cap consumption in conjunction with bigger cargo bays for more cap boosters would be better. Also fix the crystal reload bug, give the apoc an optimal bonus, reduce fitting reqs on small and medium size lasers, and give Zealot more gank. Then Amarr is good to go.
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:25:00 - [54] I'm also annoyed about reloading. Give everyone a "load all" button. I'm tired of switching out each weapons ammo. Make an option where we can change all similar weapons to one ammo type. Do this for all races.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:32:00 - [55] Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 16/01/2008 02:29:17 I'm also annoyed about loading ammo. Give everyone a "load all" option. When selected it displays ammo types that can be selected and loaded. I'm tired of switching out each weapons ammo. Make an option where we can change all similar weapons to one ammo type. Do this for all races. Nothing to do with the topic. I thought I would just add it. I have allot of resentment. I thought they said they were working on that one
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: I don't ask for this to be changed but it is important to know that Amarr runs out of cap boosters faster than other races because: a) more modules online that use cap (lasers) b) less space in cargohold for charges Hmm, the Sacrilege and Damnation seemed to have pretty sizable cargo holds. What's really sad here, though, is that the size of your cargo hold is the definition of how long you last in PVP these days. This is the primary reason I think cap boosters should play less of a role. Quote: Quote: I agree, to a point. I think that Amarr should be more vulnerable to cap disruption than other races, but I also think that to counteract that they should be significantly harder to cap out. I'd say that in exchange for not being able to do much other than tank and shoot, they should be able to do that somewhat more efficiently and for a lot longer than other. Um, so I'm not understanding the difference between "cap disruption" and "be harder to cap out". You seem to be implying that it might take two or three neutralizers to cap out an Amarrian ship? Are you saying that a neutralizer should still cap you out quickly, but that you shouldn't naturally cap out just by running guns and a dual LAR tank? I don't really know. I just think Amarrans ought to have significantly more powerful capacitors, and for that difference to not be negated by everyone and their mother using cap boosters anyway. Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 16/01/2008 02:29:17 I'm also annoyed about loading ammo. Give everyone a "load all" option. When selected it displays ammo types that can be selected and loaded. I'm tired of switching out each weapons ammo. Make an option where we can change all similar weapons to one ammo type. Do this for all races. Nothing to do with the topic. I thought I would just add it. I have allot of resentment. I thought they said they were working on that one About a month or so ago there was a huge thread in GD that had like a million dev comments and one of them was that they are, in fact, working on this feature. __________________________________
Ash'el Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:59:00 - [57] Originally by: Terianna Eri Have you even looked at the fitting requirements for a large cap battery? They're absurd! Aye, it'd be good if cap batteries where a nice alternative than cap boosters. Especially more so for Amarr since we have small cargo bays.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.16 04:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Liang Nuren OTOH, they're limited by their cargo hold. Your ammoless weapons makes your ships so versatile. Amarr easily have the smallest cargo holds in the game even after filling the other holds with ammo. The single case that this comes in handy is POS shooting. The only Amarran ships with large cargo bays shoot high ROF missiles exclusivly.
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.16 04:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren OTOH, they're limited by their cargo hold. Your ammoless weapons makes your ships so versatile. Amarr easily have the smallest cargo holds in the game even after filling the other holds with ammo. The single case that this comes in handy is POS shooting. The only Amarran ships with large cargo bays shoot high ROF missiles exclusivly. Aww, I saw that Goumindong posted in my thread and was expecting an in-depth response to the lengthy OP. You have let me down, good sir I had been meaning to ask you anyway - what do you think about cutting cap use in half across the board and replacing the cap use bonus with a tracking or optimal bonus on Amarran gunships? I'd be curious to see if you thought it was (even remotely) balanced. __________________________________
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.16 05:38:00 - [60] Edited by: Goumindong on 16/01/2008 05:41:22 Cutting the cap use bonus can be a good idea. An optimal bonus is overpowered. E.G. Tachyon II + 50% optimal= .432 dps mod @ 81km optimal & .1392 tracking 425II + 25% dmg = .431 dps mod @ 58km optimal & .0962 tracking A Megathron would end up doing less dps at less optimal with less tracking and lower alpha strike than an Apoc using megabeams Tracking wont fix the problem ships, might make other ships an issue, since amarr ought to have those problems in the short range Better to simply redesign either these ships: All tier 1 battlecruisers Harbinger Maller Omen Punisher Zealot Absolution Apoc Excutioner Or everything in the Amarr line-up, because lasers are incompatable with the entire philosophy of tanking[especially as an armor tanker] And end up with either Laser boats + tech 1 Khanid ships Or Sansha/maurader inspired designs. Really, ive said enough on the topic and dont always feel like saying everything ive already said again just because But ill say this: You cant just go around and apply blanket bonuses to these ships, each ship needs a different approach in order to create a strong ship lineup which performs various roles without having half the ships useless

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