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Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
39
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
While the starter ships probably do need new models & associated texturing, does the Ibis & its fellow starter/newb shipmates need any rebalancing?
Slot changes, PG/CPU, or perhaps other attributes?
Critically, it could be said they're fine as is. With a bit of creativity these ships can be currently useful, as is. A small fleet of them can kill larger vessels.
These ships come with a mining laser & a gun. Should this be changed at all?
Have the starter ships been rebalanced - be it nerfed or buffed, since their introduction?
As is, do starter ships give new players a functional ship to fly with in their early days of eve? The NPE tutorial missions do give out several free ships: particularly frigates, & a destroyer.
Is the starter-ship a relic of another time? Should it be brought up to date with current ship aesthetics & performance levels while baring in mind it is given free to all pilots, of all skill levels & game experience. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
545
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
No, they don't need to be changed at all. Their main purpose is to be a ship that isn't a pod that newbs can have. New models are nice, but I don't think they need a buff (as is, the noobships have been used, IIRC there are some kills with swarms of them, I worry that any buff could be abused). "If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it". |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
39
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
mxzf wrote:No, they don't need to be changed at all. Their main purpose is to be a ship that isn't a pod that newbs can have. New models are nice, but I don't think they need a buff (as is, the noobships have been used, IIRC there are some kills with swarms of them, I worry that any buff could be abused). "If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it".
The you tube videos of these kills are quite amusing.
Are all of the starter ships equally balanced, or does one stand out, head and shoulders above the rest?
Alternately, - are they too potent? Should these ships be nerfed at all? |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
132
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:Are all of the starter ships equally balanced, or does one stand out, head and shoulders above the rest? Yes, the Velator. Though "head and shoulders above" another rookie ship really isn't saying much. They can get some lulzy DPS figures in EFT but are pretty much just that. Also the Ibis can fire out to about 40km but really, who cares?
These ships are useful for all of 20 minutes to a new player, and as free shuttles to older ones. No changes needed. They have performance that more than befits their cost. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
192
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't think they need any changes. All of them are equally spectacularly terrible. They are ships designed to get you through the first tutorial missions and nothing more. In that role, they are effective. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
132
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Posted - 2012.02.10 17:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:I don't think they need any changes. All of them are equally spectacularly terrible. They are ships designed to get you through the first tutorial missions and nothing more. In that role, they are effective. I tend to use mine as shuttles a lot, especially when I need a bit more than 10m3 cargo space. Seems like a decent enough role for them to be honest. |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
39
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Posted - 2012.02.10 17:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keeping in mind that survival & flourishing in NPC 0.0 has more to do with situational awareness, and playing / flying in a group, are these ships good enough for new players in NPC 0.0?
Or should new players stay a few weeks/days in highsec before moving out? Training a few basic t1 fit rifter skills on the way to flying with a group/corp/alliance of like-minded players in 0.0?
To be critical of any changes, even if geared toward aiding new players is the ever present, - any changes made to help new players will very likely be magnified & taken advantage of by older characters issue. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
132
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Posted - 2012.02.10 17:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Keeping in mind that survival & flourishing in NPC 0.0 has more to do with situational awareness, and playing / flying in a group, are these ships good enough for new players in NPC 0.0? What, rookie ships? Of course not, as someone else put above ^ they're to get newbies through the first few tutorial missions.
Quote:Or should new players stay a few weeks/days in highsec before moving out? Training a few basic t1 fit rifter skills on the way to flying with a group/corp/alliance of like-minded players in 0.0? It takes a couple of days if that to be in a workable PVP frigate. Not a big deal, frankly.
Also were you trying to make any kind of argument there? I'm not being sarcastic, just not sure I got the point entirely. |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
39
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Posted - 2012.02.10 17:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Quote:Keeping in mind that survival & flourishing in NPC 0.0 has more to do with situational awareness, and playing / flying in a group, are these ships good enough for new players in NPC 0.0? What, rookie ships? Of course not, as someone else put above ^ they're to get newbies through the first few tutorial missions. Quote:Or should new players stay a few weeks/days in highsec before moving out? Training a few basic t1 fit rifter skills on the way to flying with a group/corp/alliance of like-minded players in 0.0? It takes a couple of days if that to be in a workable PVP frigate. Not a big deal, frankly. Also were you trying to make any kind of argument there? I'm not being sarcastic, just not sure I got the point entirely.
No argument intended. I've read about changes to starter-ship models.
Which has drawn out the question, - what was their original intended purpose? Do they still serve it adequately? Are they so old that they need changes of some variety beyond the model?
If their only purpose is to get newbies through the tutorial missions, - why does everyone get a free one, regardless of character age, when docking a pod at a station without any assets in station.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
134
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:Which has drawn out the question, - what was their original intended purpose? Do they still serve it adequately? Are they so old that they need changes of some variety beyond the model? Their original purpose hasn't changed much - what has changed are the circumstances for newer pilots. They can now get out of the rookie ship and into a proper one much quicker than they used to.
Quote:If their only purpose is to get newbies through the tutorial missions, - why does everyone get a free one, regardless of character age, when docking a pod at a station without any assets in station. Two reasons: 1. So you've got *something* to use rather than your pod, at least. 2. So in the highly unlikely event you get completely ganked into oblivion, you'll always be able to drag yourself up (however slowly) from scratch. |
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Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
857
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
It something to start in- and thats about it- There are a few players out there who use them paired with logistics in empire pvp as a shock & awe strategy (Kickah is one of those people) to suprising success. To a new player they are a means of beginning, to the older players they are pod condoms (unless your in a bubble... you can always escape a wreck easily in a pod). Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
39
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote: 2. So in the highly unlikely event you get completely ganked into oblivion, you'll always be able to drag yourself up (however slowly) from scratch.
Has this genuinely happened before in recent times? Particularly when NPE tutorial agents give out freeships and various goods one can train/sell use. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
135
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Very probably not. But the fact remains: rookie ships are tutorial-mobiles for newbies and shuttles for bittervets. Nothing really broken here so nothing needs changing. |
Galphii
Furnulum pani nolo THE SPACE P0LICE
21
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Posted - 2012.02.11 00:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've suggested before that they should get an extra highslot (with no additional PG or cpu) so they can carry the iris prototype probe launcher; the tutorial shows information about probing, but they don't start with a probe launcher. A 50% cap buff is a good idea so they're not running out of cap warping around systems, and I think a 2nd bonus is a good idea too (cargo space per level). They should be able to showcase the game for new players; samples of just about everything you can do, and pretty much everything in a newbie system should be doable in a rookie ship. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
54
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Posted - 2012.02.11 03:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Galphii wrote:I've suggested before that they should get an extra highslot (with no additional PG or cpu) so they can carry the iris prototype probe launcher; the tutorial shows information about probing, but they don't start with a probe launcher. A 50% cap buff is a good idea so they're not running out of cap warping around systems, and I think a 2nd bonus is a good idea too (cargo space per level). They should be able to showcase the game for new players; samples of just about everything you can do, and pretty much everything in a newbie system should be doable in a rookie ship.
After they add the high-slot with a civilian probe launcher with 4 civilian probes they should give newbie systems one of each type of probe signature. Gravimetric site with a few k trit in it. A site that a civilian code breaker could do with a BPC for ammo or something. When the sig gets used, a new one replaces it. Nothing super valuable should be there, but the sites always exist. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3104
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Posted - 2012.02.11 03:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Velarra wrote:While the starter ships probably do need new models & associated texturing, does the Ibis & its fellow starter/newb shipmates need any rebalancing?
Slot changes, PG/CPU, or perhaps other attributes?
Critically, it could be said they're fine as is. With a bit of creativity these ships can be currently useful, as is. A small fleet of them can kill larger vessels.
These ships come with a mining laser & a gun. Should this be changed at all?
Have the starter ships been rebalanced - be it nerfed or buffed, since their introduction?
As is, do starter ships give new players a functional ship to fly with in their early days of eve? The NPE tutorial missions do give out several free ships: particularly frigates, & a destroyer.
Is the starter-ship a relic of another time? Should it be brought up to date with current ship aesthetics & performance levels while baring in mind it is given free to all pilots, of all skill levels & game experience.
I saw swiss army knife the rookie frigates make them do a little of everything the race can eventually learn, bonus out primary and secondary weapons and harvesting abilities as a role bonus.
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Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
39
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 03:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:Galphii wrote:I've suggested before that they should get an extra highslot (with no additional PG or cpu) so they can carry the iris prototype probe launcher; the tutorial shows information about probing, but they don't start with a probe launcher. A 50% cap buff is a good idea so they're not running out of cap warping around systems, and I think a 2nd bonus is a good idea too (cargo space per level). They should be able to showcase the game for new players; samples of just about everything you can do, and pretty much everything in a newbie system should be doable in a rookie ship. After they add the high-slot with a civilian probe launcher with 4 civilian probes they should give newbie systems one of each type of probe signature. Gravimetric site with a few k trit in it. A site that a civilian code breaker could do with a BPC for ammo or something. When the sig gets used, a new one replaces it. Nothing super valuable should be there, but the sites always exist.
So, if i understand you correctly you're both essentially suggesting they become a functional frigate, for all characters to have access to? With the consequences that may bring about?
Are you sure this is a good idea? Personally i'm neutral. |
Galphii
Furnulum pani nolo THE SPACE P0LICE
21
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Posted - 2012.02.11 04:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Droxlyn wrote:Galphii wrote:I've suggested before that they should get an extra highslot (with no additional PG or cpu) so they can carry the iris prototype probe launcher; the tutorial shows information about probing, but they don't start with a probe launcher. A 50% cap buff is a good idea so they're not running out of cap warping around systems, and I think a 2nd bonus is a good idea too (cargo space per level). They should be able to showcase the game for new players; samples of just about everything you can do, and pretty much everything in a newbie system should be doable in a rookie ship. After they add the high-slot with a civilian probe launcher with 4 civilian probes they should give newbie systems one of each type of probe signature. Gravimetric site with a few k trit in it. A site that a civilian code breaker could do with a BPC for ammo or something. When the sig gets used, a new one replaces it. Nothing super valuable should be there, but the sites always exist. So, if i understand you correctly you're both essentially suggesting they become a functional frigate, for all characters to have access to? With the consequences that may bring about? Are you sure this is a good idea? Personally i'm neutral. Yeah I'd like to increase the capabilities of the rookie ship, but I'm not sure about getting one for free every time you dock in a pod at an empty station. That really limits how capable these things should be.
How about this: Swap shuttles and rookie frigates around; When you dock up in your pod, you get a free shuttle (the pod condom someone mentioned) so you can get around quicker. And you make the rookie ships proper tier 1 frigates, giving the new player one when they start the game, but otherwise made from blueprints and sold just like regular ships. Just a thought! |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
40
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 04:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Yeah I'd like to increase the capabilities of the rookie ship, but I'm not sure about getting one for free every time you dock in a pod at an empty station. That really limits how capable these things should be.
How about this: Swap shuttles and rookie frigates around; When you dock up in your pod, you get a free shuttle (the pod condom someone mentioned) so you can get around quicker. And you make the rookie ships proper tier 1 frigates, giving the new player one when they start the game, but otherwise made from blueprints and sold just like regular ships. Just a thought!
Have you raced an interceptor with a shuttle before? Say between Amarr <-> Jita. or H-ADOC <-> Farit ? (in brief, shuttles are surprisingly quick) |
Galphii
Furnulum pani nolo THE SPACE P0LICE
21
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Posted - 2012.02.11 05:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Galphii wrote:Yeah I'd like to increase the capabilities of the rookie ship, but I'm not sure about getting one for free every time you dock in a pod at an empty station. That really limits how capable these things should be.
How about this: Swap shuttles and rookie frigates around; When you dock up in your pod, you get a free shuttle (the pod condom someone mentioned) so you can get around quicker. And you make the rookie ships proper tier 1 frigates, giving the new player one when they start the game, but otherwise made from blueprints and sold just like regular ships. Just a thought! Have you raced an interceptor with a shuttle before? Say between Amarr <-> Jita. or H-ADOC <-> Farit ? (in brief, shuttles are surprisingly quick) I'm not sure I get your point here, but yes I'm well aware that 'shuttles iz fast'. Think of them as a bigger engine you can plug your pod into |
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Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
56
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Posted - 2012.02.11 06:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Velarra wrote: So, if i understand you correctly you're both essentially suggesting they become a functional frigate, for all characters to have access to? With the consequences that may bring about?
Are you sure this is a good idea? Personally i'm neutral.
Yes, but I think the newbie signatures should be significantly bigger than normal and the civilian probes should have next to no real chance of finding real signatures elsewhere. (Except the really easy anomalies that you can find with the ship's scanner anyway.) The civilian probes should be good enough to get a taste, not be overly useful. |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
41
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Posted - 2012.02.11 06:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Velarra wrote:Galphii wrote:Yeah I'd like to increase the capabilities of the rookie ship, but I'm not sure about getting one for free every time you dock in a pod at an empty station. That really limits how capable these things should be.
How about this: Swap shuttles and rookie frigates around; When you dock up in your pod, you get a free shuttle (the pod condom someone mentioned) so you can get around quicker. And you make the rookie ships proper tier 1 frigates, giving the new player one when they start the game, but otherwise made from blueprints and sold just like regular ships. Just a thought! Have you raced an interceptor with a shuttle before? Say between Amarr <-> Jita. or H-ADOC <-> Farit ? (in brief, shuttles are surprisingly quick) I'm not sure I get your point here, but yes I'm well aware that 'shuttles iz fast'. Think of them as a bigger engine you can plug your pod into
I'm thinking about balancing, would it be a good idea when current starter ships are not as potent as current shuttles. As Pod prophylactics sure, but as agile as a shuttle?
Another issue may be that people are currently producing shuttles. I've even made the occasional shuttle with the common t1 shuttle myself. |
Galphii
Furnulum pani nolo THE SPACE P0LICE
21
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Posted - 2012.02.11 12:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Galphii wrote:Velarra wrote:Galphii wrote:Yeah I'd like to increase the capabilities of the rookie ship, but I'm not sure about getting one for free every time you dock in a pod at an empty station. That really limits how capable these things should be.
How about this: Swap shuttles and rookie frigates around; When you dock up in your pod, you get a free shuttle (the pod condom someone mentioned) so you can get around quicker. And you make the rookie ships proper tier 1 frigates, giving the new player one when they start the game, but otherwise made from blueprints and sold just like regular ships. Just a thought! Have you raced an interceptor with a shuttle before? Say between Amarr <-> Jita. or H-ADOC <-> Farit ? (in brief, shuttles are surprisingly quick) I'm not sure I get your point here, but yes I'm well aware that 'shuttles iz fast'. Think of them as a bigger engine you can plug your pod into I'm thinking about balancing, would it be a good idea when current starter ships are not as potent as current shuttles. As Pod prophylactics sure, but as agile as a shuttle? Another issue may be that people are currently producing shuttles. I've even made the occasional shuttle with the common t1 shuttle myself. I've made some myself, but the beauty of it is you get to make the tier 1 frigates as replacement |
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