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Ribijk	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:43:00 - [1] Hello all :) Im going to be getting into a Huggin/Raiper and vagabond pretty soon and id like some information about these ships from your perspective (Players). There are some threads out there about this but none really giving the answers im looking for. Huggin or Raiper for solo pvp against select targets? How good is the vaga for pvp?
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:50:00 - [2] Edited by: Khanid Kutie on 16/01/2008 16:50:52 The Vagabond has become the gold standard for small skirmish warfare. The Rapier and Huginn have become the only solution for the nano gangs that have become popular as of the last few months. The huginn hits harder than the rapier, while the rapier can warp cloaked. Each ship has its positives and negatives, as all of them do. It all depends on your tastes and what youd rather do. Do you get more of a thrill in being the one who can say "AHA, that nano pilot thought he was getting away but i webbed him down!" or would you prefer to be the nano pilot who zooms around his opponent holding him in place while you poke away at his ship? I'm currently training for a rapier/huginn because I'd rather be the one to slow the nanos down than be a nano***** ...
Ribijk	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:59:00 - [3] I hate nano-ships...ESPECIALLY gallente nano Ishtar. ***est ship of all time imho.
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Ribijk I hate nano-ships...ESPECIALLY gallente nano Ishtar. *est ship of all time imho. you realize a nano vagabond goes faster than that "*" nano-shtar, right?
Ribijk	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Khanid Kutie Originally by: Ribijk I hate nano-ships...ESPECIALLY gallente nano Ishtar. *est ship of all time imho. you realize a nano vagabond goes faster than that "*" nano-shtar, right? Yup..But im flying a vagabond..so its excluded from being called names. :P
Lil Mule	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:07:00 - [6] Yet another example of how Minmatar ships excel at PVP above all other races. Yes Vaga's are the gold standard for small skirmish warfare, and also for fleet support. Huginn's are the most useful (ducks from the flames) force recon out of all the Force Recon's (I should know, I fly Amarr ducks again) currently out there. How do you bench mark which ships are over-powered? by the number of people flying them. There, I said it. Now what am I doing about it? Just whine? No! That's right, Im training up Minmatar myself, so I too can be useful, and uber, just like the rest of you. Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Lil Mule Yet another example of how Minmatar ships excel at PVP above all other races. Yes Vaga's are the gold standard for small skirmish warfare, and also for fleet support. Huginn's are the most useful (ducks from the flames) force recon out of all the Force Recon's (I should know, I fly Amarr ducks again) currently out there. How do you bench mark which ships are over-powered? by the number of people flying them. There, I said it. Now what am I doing about it? Just whine? No! That's right, Im training up Minmatar myself, so I too can be useful, and uber, just like the rest of you. Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. This
Major Stallion Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:21:00 - [8] Originally by: Lil Mule Yet another example of how Minmatar ships excel at PVP above all other races. Yes Vaga's are the gold standard for small skirmish warfare, and also for fleet support. Huginn's are the most useful (ducks from the flames) force recon out of all the Force Recon's (I should know, I fly Amarr ducks again) currently out there. How do you bench mark which ships are over-powered? by the number of people flying them. There, I said it. Now what am I doing about it? Just whine? No! That's right, Im training up Minmatar myself, so I too can be useful, and uber, just like the rest of you. Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. keep whining, i hear if you do it enough, CCP changes game mechanics.
Lil Mule	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Major Stallion keep whining, i hear if you do it enough, CCP changes game mechanics.[/quote Woo hoo! sweet! There. You heard it CCP. Please either nerf both the vaga, and the Huginn, or fix the other HAC's and Force Recon's. Major Stallion told me you would do it, so please, get to it (please enjoy the humor responsibly)
jeikam VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Lil Mule Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. Or maybe diversify your training so that the 'nerfs' dont hit you so hard? 14 days till all races Cruiser Level 5 for me...
Major Stallion Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Lil Mule Edited by: Lil Mule on 16/01/2008 17:27:56 Originally by: Major Stallion keep whining, i hear if you do it enough, CCP changes game mechanics. Woo hoo! sweet! There. You heard it CCP. Please either nerf both the vaga, and the Huginn, or fix the other HAC's and Force Recon's. Major Stallion told me you would do it, so please, get to it (please enjoy the humor responsibly) Im the new voice of authority it seems,
Robert Rumpletweezer	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:55:00 - [12] I dunno, Huginn > rook, but falcon > all IMO. (and i fly both, perma jamming 3 bs ftw)
Nexus Kinnon Synthetic Frontiers Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.16 18:01:00 - [13] As has been said, they are both different ships but I would say the Huginn is a better solo PvP ship given that it's cheaper and puts out more hurt. Just remember to nanofag it.
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.16 18:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Robert Rumpletweezer I dunno, Huginn > rook, but falcon > all IMO. (and i fly both, perma jamming 3 bs ftw) This. Good luck to all those pilots cross training to minmatar and then finding out that you aren't as useful as the forums always made you think you were. How is THAT as a consequence to ignorance? Months of skill training wasted. Oh I friggin love it. ----------------------
Major Stallion Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Victor Ivanov Originally by: Robert Rumpletweezer I dunno, Huginn > rook, but falcon > all IMO. (and i fly both, perma jamming 3 bs ftw) This. Good luck to all those pilots cross training to minmatar and then finding out that you aren't as useful as the forums always made you think you were. How is THAT as a consequence to ignorance? Months of skill training wasted. Oh I friggin love it. errr what? As useful as the caldari recons are (and i know because im an ECM *****)...you cant honestly say that minnie recons are wasted training, can you? I;m trying to see a point being madehere, and I cant say I see one? Can you clarify your ROFL'ing and LAMO'ing?
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Khanid Kutie Originally by: Ribijk I hate nano-ships...ESPECIALLY gallente nano Ishtar. *est ship of all time imho. you realize a nano vagabond goes faster than that "*" nano-shtar, right? Says mr Poasting alt... Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Lil Mule Yet another example of how Minmatar ships excel at PVP above all other races. Yes Vaga's are the gold standard for small skirmish warfare, and also for fleet support. Huginn's are the most useful (ducks from the flames) force recon out of all the Force Recon's (I should know, I fly Amarr ducks again) currently out there. How do you bench mark which ships are over-powered? by the number of people flying them. There, I said it. Now what am I doing about it? Just whine? No! That's right, Im training up Minmatar myself, so I too can be useful, and uber, just like the rest of you. Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. 5 posts before somebody whined. Gee, didn't see that coming. ------------------------------------------------ 'The thing always happens that you really believe in... and the belief in a thing makes it happen' - Frank Loyd Wright
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:19:00 - [18] a huggin will solo two vagas easily. watch huggin the edge.
Jack Target The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Everyone Dies Originally by: Lil Mule Yet another example of how Minmatar ships excel at PVP above all other races. Yes Vaga's are the gold standard for small skirmish warfare, and also for fleet support. Huginn's are the most useful (ducks from the flames) force recon out of all the Force Recon's (I should know, I fly Amarr ducks again) currently out there. How do you bench mark which ships are over-powered? by the number of people flying them. There, I said it. Now what am I doing about it? Just whine? No! That's right, Im training up Minmatar myself, so I too can be useful, and uber, just like the rest of you. Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. This I don't agree. It takes more skill points to fly a Minmatar ship well. With all that time invested, there should be a slight advantage to flying Minmatar (they have a greater chance of escaping).
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:45:00 - [20] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 16/01/2008 19:53:27 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 16/01/2008 19:51:56 Lots crap being flung in this thread and others about the "ZOMG--EvE combat is overrun with nanoships 111!!11". I like to think that I get enough trigger time to see a pretty good cross section of opposing gangs (mostly losec...but some limited 0.0). Just looking back at most engagements they fall into (and this does not include multi-v-one gank jobs): 1-Big ships-v-big ships (BC/CS/BS) 2-HAC/Recon-v-big ships (BC/CS/BS/the odd capital) 3-Inty supported by a couple HAC/Recon-v-all the above It is NOT that common to see fleets of silly speed ships running around...or not as common as people claim. You may have some folks...especially in 0.0...who use speed to ingress/egress hostile areas because its the only way they can get past the endless fixed bubble camps (plus the typical mindset of "quick--to the battleships" regardless of incoming ship type so common in 0.0 alliances). And those that do fly that way will have a pretty good skillset--your average 7 month old EvE alliance Raven pilot--and his similar experienced wingmen--are going to get ripped to pieces by speed gangs with good reason. Anyway...enough of that. For the op.. ...Vaga is an excellent heavy interceptor and support killer. Perfect for hit and run. Pack EWAR drones....you'll need 'em more than the 5 Warrior II's. Good for soloing almost anything that can't jam/web/neut you (take care around BS...heavy neuts are evil). ...Both Recons are a bit tricky for solo work. The nature of the main ship bonus is dictating engagement range. You can easily fit a 24k...or even faction long range disruptor onboard...but you will still be giving away up to 12km additional buffer zone given that Recon IV=webs at 32km Recon V=webs at 40km . And the damage output of either is a bit meh. If you are gonna solo....there are good proven fits for both the Huginn and Rapier. They just give away a bit much in trying to achieve solo excellence. BOTH are feared when supporting a gang (in either multi-web or twin damp twin web configs....they are hugely versatile ships). If you had asked before the damp balance though--the MWD/web/24k/damp/damp/LSE T2 Rapier was the **zle "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the ** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Sebroth Coordination Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.16 20:11:00 - [21] I can fly both minmatar and caldari recons with more or less perfect skills, I can also fly a vaga, ishtar and cerb if I want with damn good skills, sleipnir I can also fly well. I have spent almost 2 years flying minmatar recons but since the last patch I stopped doing so... I prefer to fly "solo" with 2 of my chars in a gang. Since the patch one in a falcon one in a ishtar (might change for falcon+sleinir but I just love t2 ogre/zerkers and low ammo use) There are no question that the minmatar recon and the vaga is very good ships but I find the ishtar+falcon combo to be way more usefull for me then a ishtar/vaga+huginn/rapier combo a vaga is only good till you get perma jammed by a falcon sitting 200km away from a fight in a falcon and see a vaga burning those 200km just to get perma jammed is priceless (I never undock a falcon w/o at least one minmatar ecm) the single most valuble ship you can have in a smaller gang is imho a falcon, sure you might not want only falcons but if it is 1 falcon or 1 huginn/rapier I would take the falcon every day or at least most of them But in the end... training for minmatar recons/HACs sure aint wasted training I love to know that when I need one of those ships I just need to change ships. I dont care if people say one ship is good or crap. Most ship is good for at least one thing and one day I might just need that. ----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that)
SashaLira	Posted - 2008.01.16 20:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Sebroth I can fly both minmatar and caldari recons with more or less perfect skills, I can also fly a vaga, ishtar and cerb if I want with damn good skills, sleipnir I can also fly well. I have spent almost 2 years flying minmatar recons but since the last patch I stopped doing so... I prefer to fly "solo" with 2 of my chars in a gang. Since the patch one in a falcon one in a ishtar (might change for falcon+sleinir but I just love t2 ogre/zerkers and low ammo use) There are no question that the minmatar recon and the vaga is very good ships but I find the ishtar+falcon combo to be way more usefull for me then a ishtar/vaga+huginn/rapier combo a vaga is only good till you get perma jammed by a falcon sitting 200km away from a fight in a falcon and see a vaga burning those 200km just to get perma jammed is priceless (I never undock a falcon w/o at least one minmatar ecm) the single most valuble ship you can have in a smaller gang is imho a falcon, sure you might not want only falcons but if it is 1 falcon or 1 huginn/rapier I would take the falcon every day or at least most of them But in the end... training for minmatar recons/HACs sure aint wasted training I love to know that when I need one of those ships I just need to change ships. I dont care if people say one ship is good or crap. Most ship is good for at least one thing and one day I might just need that. Lol, nuff said. mkay
Shigsy Sybrite Inc. Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.16 20:56:00 - [23] Originally by: MotherMoon a huggin will solo two vagas easily. watch huggin the edge. Lol.
Maeltstome Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 21:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Shigsy Originally by: MotherMoon a huggin will solo two vagas easily. watch huggin the edge. Lol. that was 2 stabbers he solo'd And 1on1 and good vaga pilot can force a huginn to warp. There are 2 common misconceptions about the vagabond. 1. It tanks with speed 2. It is useless once you get a web on it. in reply to both: 1. speed isnt it tank, i uses burst of speed to maintain range and use its falloff bonus to full effect. Its main tank is noramlly twin LSE's combined with t2 shield res. 2. Anything that get close enough to web a vaga better home its not small than a VERY well fitted BC. Getting a small ship to web a vaga is like grabbing a shotgun by the barrel while standing in a cupboard. Vaga can out-tank and out-dps the huginn, and will generally hit to 24km (scram range) fairly consistently. If a hugin doesn't use arties and a faction scram, its in for a shock about how fast it's shield melts when the vaga fights back - i learned long ago that running from a ship like that when you're at a celestial is the worst idea you can have. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.01.16 22:19:00 - [25] What the man above me said.... -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.16 23:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Major Stallion Originally by: Victor Ivanov Originally by: Robert Rumpletweezer I dunno, Huginn > rook, but falcon > all IMO. (and i fly both, perma jamming 3 bs ftw) This. Good luck to all those pilots cross training to minmatar and then finding out that you aren't as useful as the forums always made you think you were. How is THAT as a consequence to ignorance? Months of skill training wasted. Oh I friggin love it. errr what? As useful as the caldari recons are (and i know because im an ECM *****)...you cant honestly say that minnie recons are wasted training, can you? I;m trying to see a point being madehere, and I cant say I see one? Can you clarify your ROFL'ing and LAMO'ing? No no no. You misconstrue my sentiment. :P My point was essentialy that I am confronted quite frequently these days with pilots who decided to cross train Minmatar because they thought they were going to fly OMGWTFHAX ships. Now, I am fully minmatar specc'ed and while the Skill Requirements to effectively fly minmatar as a race are much higher than others, I wouldn't trade it for the world. But for many pilots who are misinformed concerning Minmatar, it is a shocking revelation. Huginn's and Rapiers are potent, and I love flying them. But yeah. Minmatar are not a wtfpwn race. :) Fly them, compare them to gallente, then make your judgements. ----------------------
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.17 00:44:00 - [27] Originally by: jeikam Originally by: Lil Mule Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. Or maybe diversify your training so that the 'nerfs' dont hit you so hard? 14 days till all races Cruiser Level 5 for me... I prefer just learning how to play my 1 race to make them effective in whatever situation I find them in. I've only trained minmatar, I'll only train minmatar. I've never had a problem beating another race in any ship I've flown (I can fly all minmatar ships except destroyer line) Then again, I choose my fights very carefully and I'm never reckless and think everything through before I do it.. so perhaps that affects things. :) _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
jaybo34 Caldari Mentis Fidelis	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:06:00 - [28] Edited by: jaybo34 on 17/01/2008 11:08:41 Originally by: Lil Mule Yet another example of how Minmatar ships excel at PVP above all other races. Yes Vaga's are the gold standard for small skirmish warfare, and also for fleet support. Huginn's are the most useful (ducks from the flames) force recon out of all the Force Recon's (I should know, I fly Amarr ducks again) currently out there. How do you bench mark which ships are over-powered? by the number of people flying them. There, I said it. Now what am I doing about it? Just whine? No! That's right, Im training up Minmatar myself, so I too can be useful, and uber, just like the rest of you. Pretty soon all you'll see is Vaga's and Huginn's out on the battlefield. I wonder if then MAYBE CCP will get the picture. I fly a vaga on my alt and they are by no means I win buttons yes they excel at harassing the enemy and yes most the time u can get yourself out of trouble with them , but they have absolute crap firepower [with 8 mill in minny spec gunnery]. they are great for certain things and bad at others just like every ship in the game.

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