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Marshall Zhukov
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Posted - 2008.01.18 08:48:00 -
[1]
my main char being Minmatar I cant stand Ammar myself in an RP sense however why does everyone poo-poo their ships? ;-)
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.01.18 08:51:00 -
[2]
At a guess I would say
1. Massive cap drain with laser usage (primary ammar weapon but not the only one)
2. Lasers do EM and thermal damage. Not the most useful of damage types.
This topic has been done to death though. Look up the "Ultimate Amarr problem" thread.
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Shwedagon Paya
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Posted - 2008.01.18 08:52:00 -
[3]
Mostly because they're a PITA to fit and often difficult to use properly except for some of the really good ones.
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Marshall Zhukov
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Posted - 2008.01.18 08:54:00 -
[4]
Alright, im still pretty new so I dont know all about the various races ships and just figured on throwing out a quick question ;-)
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2008.01.18 08:56:00 -
[5]
'Amarr'
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:16:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Marshall Zhukov
Alright, im still pretty new so I dont know all about the various races ships and just figured on throwing out a quick question ;-)
Thats fair enough. GM might move this to "New Citizens Q&A" though.
I don't fly amarr but from what I read you need a lot of investment in support skills to start to realise the potential of amarr ships.
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Ogron
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:20:00 -
[7]
Back in yer cave, slave scum!
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[Reacz] Morsus Mihi - Sit on their thrones sucking the sweet teet of plex running so I've heard. |
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:27:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Julio Torres on 18/01/2008 09:27:19
Simple answer. Becauser everyone thinks the other races is so much better.
Not comprehending that the races have different identities.
Granted, Amarr have severe disabilities. But our ships are still very useable.
It all comes down to how you fit and fly them. This is where most fail
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Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:28:00 -
[9]
It's not so much that Amarr ships are bad, in themselves they are damned good, if a tad slow to turn and burn.
It's the lasers that can be a problem. limited in what damage types they do and a major drain on CAP reserves. However with good skills they can be made to pay off amd the limited damage types can be sorted to a point by using Exp/Kin drones, and when able to fit them missiles
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Aindrias
Amarr
Labteck Corporation LTD.
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:32:00 -
[10]
Because this game is all about Capacitor and it's too easy to drain and since Amarr require Capacitor for damage unlike missiles, drones and autocannons they suck.
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Oniko Sengir
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:38:00 -
[11]
I <3 Amarr ships tbh.
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General StarScream
Borg Collective hive mind
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:44:00 -
[12]
its just people whining to improve there race
Gallente uses about the same cap amount for wepons.
get - tracking for t2
have crap dam types,
Amarr is great.
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: General StarScream
its just people whining to improve there race
Gallente uses about the same cap amount for wepons.
get - tracking for t2
have crap dam types,
Amarr is great.
this
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Cpt Constantinus
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.18 09:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
Originally by: General StarScream
its just people whining to improve there race
Gallente uses about the same cap amount for wepons.
get - tracking for t2
have crap dam types,
Amarr is great.
this
Wrong, amarrian ships use, even with the 10% capreduction bonus per level, more cap than gallentean ships.
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Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2008.01.18 10:12:00 -
[15]
there isnt an amarr ship what another ship can do better.
->My Vids<-
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Marshall Zhukov
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Posted - 2008.01.18 10:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Marshall Zhukov on 18/01/2008 10:23:26
Maybe they can fix that by just making beams do an enormous amount of damage.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.18 10:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: General StarScream
Gallente uses about the same cap amount for wepons.
get - tracking for t2
have crap dam types,
Amarr is great.
Not sure wether this is a troll or a genuine attempt of an answer, but:
* they don't have the best alpha, and they don't have the best RAW DPS either
* the "EM damage" part is pure and unadulterated crap (ALMOST every armor tanker uses DC/EANM/EANM, and most of the rest DC/EX/EANM), a damage type that's between 50% (gleam), 58% (multifreq) and 100% (radio) of their damage output
* shortest range gun have worst tracking, and longest range guns have the worst range of all similar weapons
* only Caldari boats are slower / less agile as Amarr boats in general (exceptions exist)
* even with a -50% cap reduction bonus (maxed out), they STILL use the most cap/second out of all possible weapon types
* as a consequence of that cap usage issue, they DON'T have the best tanks either... actually, short of some monster armor buffer setups, they have the WORST (active) tanks around
Amarr boats usually work better overall with MINNIE weapons, ferchrissakes !
And the missile boats are actually pretty decent.
It's not the ships, it's the damned lasers.
The only thing they are GOOD at in general (the laser boats, with lasers on them) is decent damage at medium range.
A range where (almost exclusively) only CAMPS (of various types) engage at.
And with a couple of exceptions (Khanid designs, and missions against Bloods/Sansha), nothing else.
For everything else, ANOTHER race is usually better.
Amarr : best at camping.
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Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:17:00 -
[18]
The ships are relativeley OK.
Its lasers that are pants!
DMG types aren't much use. But how do you make lasers do explosive and kinetic damage from an RP sense when you don't have ammo?
They added missiles to the Amarr/Caldari hybrid ships namely the Khanid but RP wise installing missile slots on all Amarr ships is a no no and we already have a missile race. Plus I think it would unbalance the ships.
The easiest way to go would be to do bizarre RP twist and try and get lasers to do the other damage types. Or scrap lasers and bring in a new weapon class like 'plasma' or something. Easy to RP those.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Daan Sai
HAZCON Inc
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Valan
The ships are relativeley OK.
Its lasers that are pants!
DMG types aren't much use. But how do you make lasers do explosive and kinetic damage from an RP sense when you don't have ammo?
If your only experience of lasers is a pointer in a lecture or public talk then it is hard to imagein, but a blast from a petawatt laser can even induce fusion! 10^18 Volts/cm and vaporising anything to 100million K, there follows dramatic rearrangement in the form a a violent explosion - full of kinetic and explosive power, as well as the em and thermal.
Truely high power real life lasers do far more than just heat their targets!
Think if it as turning the targets armor into a superfast expanding fireball - equivalent to a powerful bomb.
Finally, light actually contains momentum. With sufficient intensity and power lasers can certainly push things around and impart kinetic power directly!
Stop thinking about little diode lasers, or even industrial cutting lasers - look up Lawrence Livermore Laboratories and read about their nova lasers and fusion experiments.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/01/2008 11:43:11
Well, technically, you wouldn't get "EM damage" (electromagnetic) from lasers at all in the first place (thermal, yeah, but not electromagnetic), and kinetic/thermal/explosive damages are just different forms of the same damage type (physical).
On second thought, "EM damage" itself *IS* actually thermal damage too... you "fry" the circuits by inducing a lot more current as they can handle.
The whole damage type/name separation is just a gameplay gimmick, and you could easily "pseudo-game-science" justify creating laser lenses that deal just about any damage type, same as you could justify hybrid charge dealing em/explosive damages too.
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Taz Devlin
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:42:00 -
[21]
In my experience, the only people able to make A**rrian ships shine are pilots of races other than A**rr.
I've seen these ships pull off stuff other ships can only dream of. Besides, you would have to be a fool to try and force a ship into a role rather than use another ship designed for the role.
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Duncan Bannatyne
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:50:00 -
[22]
I love the HACs
I love the Recons
I ADORE the Command Ship's.
Everything else Amarr is FAIL.
Duncan Bannatyne
The Dragons Are Taking Over... |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:53:00 -
[23]
To the op:
Cause they only see the downsides of amarr, and don't realise how to benefit from their strengths.
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P.S.
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Mind control and tin hats |
Raxxius Maelstrom
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:00:00 -
[24]
isn't thermal usually the least tanked resist in both shield and armour tanks?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:12:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/01/2008 12:15:12
Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom
isn't thermal usually the least tanked resist in both shield and armour tanks?
Except that usually less than 40% of your damage output is thermal. Rest is EM.
So, not only do you deal less raw damage, but usually your raw damage is less than 70% effective overall against typical tanks.
Not only that, but most of your ships only have one "real" bonus to begin with.
Ok, MAYBE, if the bonus changes from -10% to -15% per level, or if they just cut laser cap usage in half and add one "useful" bonus to each Amarr laserboat instead of that "fake" bonus (like, say, laser tracking or laser damage, or even laser optimal, whichever bonus is not present yet on that specific ship and would suit it best), then you just MIGHT have something interesting there.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:14:00 -
[26]
Don't start that again.
Lasers have a built in damage bonus and are limited in use to amarr ships by fitting requirements and cap use that is negated by high fittings and cap use bonus on amarr ships.
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Mind control and tin hats |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Laboratus
Lasers have a built in damage bonus and are limited in use to amarr ships by fitting requirements and cap use that is negated by high fittings and cap use bonus on amarr ships.
HAD. Way, way back in time. No longer true. The rest got slightly boosted now and then, lasers not.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Laboratus
Lasers have a built in damage bonus and are limited in use to amarr ships by fitting requirements and cap use that is negated by high fittings and cap use bonus on amarr ships.
HAD. Way, way back in time. No longer true. The rest got slightly boosted now and then, lasers not.
That is true. Especially when ship bonuses are applied to weapons. If you look at a Focuse Medium pulse Laser I and compare it to a 180mm Autocannon I (unfitted), you will see the lasre has better RoF (4.05 vs 4.50) allmost the same dam mod (2 vs 2.0625) but worse tracking (0.9 vs 0.132). Ofcourse laser beats AC in optimal.
But when you add ship bonuses, the picture changes.
What CCP should do, was to increase laser performance to equal that of a fitted AC and keep the cap bonus. I really like that Amarr are the only ones that can use laser effectivly. Just like Minmatar are the only ones that can use projectiles effectivly. Projectile's on an Apoc might be better than Laser, but they are underperforming compared to a Pest (as they should).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:38:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/01/2008 12:41:22
Originally by: Laboratus
You can get 1kdps from a geddon to a range of 55-60km depending on fittings and skills. If that isn't good, nothing is...
Short of a wholly unfeasable fit like 3-4 heat sinks, megapulse/scorch and two tracking comps with range scripts, including ogre ii damage (at 60km? heh... maybe with bouncers, but then you'd need a sentry drone damage rig and a drone optimal range midslot too), I don't see this happening.
And you'd have insane trouble not capping out in an instant.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:44:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Laboratus on 18/01/2008 12:45:51
Edited by: Laboratus on 18/01/2008 12:44:55
Megapulse+ scorch(and navy MF for close range), 3 heatsinks 2 TEs and sentry drones, with the only rig being senty damage aug.
Works, fits without problems and instapops stuff. Cap death at 4 minutes.
Edit:
Who uses TCs anymore...
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P.S.
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Mind control and tin hats |
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