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Arazel Chainfire
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:35:00 -
[1]
Ok, so after running lvl 3's in lowsec, and continuing to run into pirates despite my best efforts, I have come to ask:
Without rigs, which would be better, an active tank or a passive tank setup?
The reason why i say without rigs is because the rigs are quite frankly too expensive for a pure throwaway setup. That being said, the drake can still easily tank a lvl 3 with a passive setup even without rigs, though it then becomes more of a hp tank than a true passive tank. And yes, i have tested this... one of the harder lvl 3's might get me down to about 1/3 shield before its all done, but more often i still have closer to 2/3 to 3/4 shield left by the time i finish the mission.
The issue is the tank vs player pirates. Without rigs, the passive tank would be just a massive hp tank, and i would have to hope that they have a worse tank than my missiles and the sentry guns. So would an active tank actually be better in this case?
Thanks for your input
-Arazel
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Giant Haystacks
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:41:00 -
[2]
Active tank is always better for lowsec missionrunning if it can handle the mission, the reason is that shield extenders and rigs increase your sig radius and make you easier to probe. Drake should be able to handle lvl 3's with either.
If you keep a lookout for probes on your scanner you should be able to leave before pirates can find you.
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Shiodome
Caldari
Black Sea Industries
Cult of War
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Shiodome on 20/01/2008 00:47:27
drake doesn't have the powergrid for a decent active tank without faction fittings, which is a real shame as i'd love the option and would use the drake more in pvp if it were possible.
if there is a useable active tank, that doesn't gimp the ship unbearably with fitting mods that someone knows, i'd love to hear it :)
(btw the passive tank can cope with 80% of lvl4's without rigs easily aswell, and all lvl 4's with rigs... it gets boring though :P )
_____________________________________
today i am this cool:
[uncool]================[*]====[cool]
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Lumberjackhammer
Caldari
Wildlands Heavy Technologies
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:47:00 -
[4]
large booster, boost amp, 2 invulvs, 1 em res amp, 1 medium cap booster
2 bcu`s, 1 dmg control, 1 cpu upgrade
7 launchers.
and dont forget that some rigs are cheap, like resistance rigs,,,2 em 1 thermal would allow you to drop the em res amp and 1 invulv, freeing up 2 midslots for cap and still give u about 70% across the board
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Stuart Price
Caldari
Havoc Inc
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Stuart Price on 20/01/2008 00:50:02
If you get probed out you're going to die, regardless of how you tank, unless the pirates are idiots in which case it probably STILL doesn't matter.
The simplest answer is thus: Don't mission in low-sec unless you accept that at some point you will be caught and horribly killed to bits.
As for the tank, well that's simple as well: Passive drake > active drake every time. And the extenders making you easier to probe is SUCH a small increase its really not worth nerfing your tank to go active for such a small benefit.
If pirates are engaging you, it's almost certainly because they're confident of victory. Short of having friends warp in to help you out, there's not much you can do about it.
EDIT: The Drake is a perfectly feasible pvp ship. There are definite benefits to flying a ship nobody primaries due to the reputation of its tank... Even tanked it provides consistent, hard to kill damage.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Giant Haystacks
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Giant Haystacks on 20/01/2008 00:55:55
 Originally by: Stuart Price
Edited by: Stuart Price on 20/01/2008 00:50:02
As for the tank, well that's simple as well: Passive drake > active drake every time. And the extenders making you easier to probe is SUCH a small increase its really not worth nerfing your tank to go active for such a small benefit.
From the formula in the guide here it looks to be directly proportional, so a passive tank can easily make you 50-70% more likely to show on each cycle of the probe. If you can do the mission with an active tank theres no point making it easier for the pirates to no benefit for yourself.
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ThaDollaGenerale
Questionable Intentions
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Posted - 2008.01.20 01:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arazel Chainfire
one of the harder lvl 3's might get me down to about 1/3 shield before its all done, but more often i still have closer to 2/3 to 3/4 shield left by the time i finish the mission.
A passive shield tank doesn't begin to really shine until about 30% of shields are left. That's when it's at its maximum recharge point.
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Arazel Chainfire
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Posted - 2008.01.20 01:19:00 -
[8]
Thanks for all the fast input - and I'll try out that setup with my next drake :P
Yes, I accept that my ship *Will* die, probably rather soon (though I haven't had the problem of being probed out yet... only that of actually getting TO the mission site). However, with an unrigged bc, loosing a t2 fit that was fully insured will cost me in the end, between 20 and 30 mil. Putting 3 shield recharge/shield extending rigs on it though bumps that cost up another 40-45mil. If I'm going to be wasting that much money, i might as well just get a domi and run missions in that with a pvp fit, and I'll still loose less money per ship loss.
This isn't about running in stuff i can't afford to loose - a faction fit battleship in a mission hub pretty much makes the whole afford/can't afford thing rather pointless. The point rather is the turnaround time between loosing one ship before you go out with another. The less that is wasted on a ship that is going to die, probably rather soon, is the less time lost running lvl 4's before the next ship is out. With an unrigged drake, that time is about an hour or two, if I don't already have enough liquid to just go out and purchase it. With a rigged drake, that time bumps up to about 4 or 5 hours... and while I'm not too concerned about running a mission or two to replace a BC, having to run between 4 to 6 (if my agent is being ***) for each lost ship gets annoying rather fast.
-Arazel
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VB Sarge
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.01.20 03:57:00 -
[9]
If you are worrying about your tank in lvl 3's on a Drake, your tank is weak. I ran lvl 4's without rigs in a Drake and was just fine... slow, but fine.
On the OP, Passive Drake > Active Drake. The Drake doesn't have a good enough cap to really sustain an active tank.
As far as probing goes, the increase in sig radius really isn't going to mean you'll get probed out faster. If someone is probing for you, they are going to find you, unless you are quick on your feet and dock up or leave system. Trying to say that a few shield extenders is going to mean you are found by probing pirates faster is a pretty ignorant statement. If having a slight change in sig radius effects you so much, how come I can usually pick up a Velator before I pick up a Tempest?
All in all, you shouldn't need the rigs for lvl 3's. Heck, you shouldn't even really need T2 stuff, it will just make it easier. If you are going for lvl 4's, then yeah, the T2 is pretty necessary, but for lvl 3's? You should be fine with a pure vanilla fit. If you ever find a lvl 3 mission where your shields go under 20% in your Drake, you were using the wrong hardeners. Use active instead of passive hardeners, and stay away from invul fields in missions (unless it's zazz or mercs) I just ran a lvl 3 mission the other day in my Drake for old times' sake, and forgot to turn on the hardeners, and I went down to 90% shields... very hard I tell ya...
www.the-bastards.com
Ask me about recruiting options |
Vikarion
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 06:04:00 -
[10]
I don't know what other people use, but I found that this worked pretty well for missions:
Mid:
4 hardeners
1 recharger
one large extender
Low:
2 shield power relay
1 ballistic control system
I use CrumpleCorn(tm) Sigs, because they (and he) are awesome! |
ruleone
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:14:00 -
[11]
I wouldn't write off rigs straight away. Ignore the sig radius penalty-if someones looking for you, they will find you unless you're quick on your feet. And fitting 2 damage specific rigs will only set you back 7-8m and frees up at least one mid slot.
The drake was built for passive tank. I use one for gatecamping and I find that (depending on how many guns I'm having to tank) I've got a minimum of 3 spare mid slots (after I've fitted my tank) to put what I want in-sensor boosters, web, scram etc-potentially 4.
In all honesty the only concession I would make to take into account the pirates would be an MWD and possibly a stab or two. With damage resist rigs fitted you can easily fit an MWD and a recharger or two which would compensate for taking shield power relays out of the lows and swapping for stabs.
Don't try tanking pirates-all you're doing then is delaying the inevitable. If you can't get away, you will die. So focus on the getting away.
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Squatdog
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.01.21 10:27:00 -
[12]
I was ratting in 0.0 with an active tanking set-up for several months before I trained to Heavy Launchers II and went fully passive. I'd switch on the booster when my shields got to halfway and heal nearly back to full, then the capacitor would recharge by the time my shields got the halfway again.
My set-up was:
7 x Makluth Heavies
1 x Salvager
..................
LSE II
EM Hardener II
Inv. Field II
Shield Booster II
Boost Amplifier I
Afterburner II
.................
2 x Ballistics Control II
2 x Power Diagnostic II
..................
3 x Shield Purgers
The Shield Purgers were nearly worth more than the rest of teh fittings combined!
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Wardeneo
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.21 10:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Arazel Chainfire
Ok, so after running lvl 3's in lowsec, and continuing to run into pirates despite my best efforts, I have come to ask:
Without rigs, which would be better, an active tank or a passive tank setup?
the drake was born for uber passive recharge tank imho and it works really well untill u hit stupid amounts of dps than it then cant recharge fast enough, but with good pilot adn setup thast hard to do unless ur bringing in a few bs's
wardeneo
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets). |
Squatdog
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:28:00 -
[14]
Passive tanking is kind of meh until you pack in a lot of Recharge fittings and get below 200 second recharge time, where the effect of a single Shield Relay or Recharge makes a massive difference (in excess of it's actual %).
If you're serious about passive tanking, you need to go all the way.
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