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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:32:00 -
[1]
Heres a idea that just came to me let me lay it out then explain the reasoning.
For full paid players with less than 5 Million SP they recive a bonus to training speeds untill they reach 5 Mill SP they gain SP at 3 times the currant speed.
Upto 10 Mill SP they gain SP at twice the normal speed.
From 10 Mill onwards training speed is normal.
Trail Acount players train at normal speed and can only take advantage of the bonus when they activate there acount.
And now the logic.
This will allow new players to become fairly competative in a few months if they carefully specialize in a certain ship/weapon class.
Its a extra incentive for trail players to upgrade to full acounts.
It can allow for the fact that the more you learn the harder it is to remember everything you know.
It will help new players get through the Learning skills (the reason i stopped playing before as i was not prepaired to put a month of training into something in order that im able gain SP at a reasonable speed).
It will allow casual gamers a chance to fly higher lvl ships and get hooked rather than say "man 4 months for a HAC?!? wheres my WoW Disk gone again".
Its going to have no effect on old players what so ever except maybe theres more players who want to buy t2 items they put up for sale, its going to encourage trial players to make the step into paying to play and its going to broaden the appeal to casual players, its a Win Win Win Situation.
Contructive critisem welcome comments like "in my day it took a months training to undock" or just "NO" need to be backed up with reasons why you think its a bad idea.
Sorry if my english is not so good.
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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:32:00 -
[2]
Heres a idea that just came to me let me lay it out then explain the reasoning.
For full paid players with less than 5 Million SP they recive a bonus to training speeds untill they reach 5 Mill SP they gain SP at 3 times the currant speed.
Upto 10 Mill SP they gain SP at twice the normal speed.
From 10 Mill onwards training speed is normal.
Trail Acount players train at normal speed and can only take advantage of the bonus when they activate there acount.
And now the logic.
This will allow new players to become fairly competative in a few months if they carefully specialize in a certain ship/weapon class.
Its a extra incentive for trail players to upgrade to full acounts.
It can allow for the fact that the more you learn the harder it is to remember everything you know.
It will help new players get through the Learning skills (the reason i stopped playing before as i was not prepaired to put a month of training into something in order that im able gain SP at a reasonable speed).
It will allow casual gamers a chance to fly higher lvl ships and get hooked rather than say "man 4 months for a HAC?!? wheres my WoW Disk gone again".
Its going to have no effect on old players what so ever except maybe theres more players who want to buy t2 items they put up for sale, its going to encourage trial players to make the step into paying to play and its going to broaden the appeal to casual players, its a Win Win Win Situation.
Contructive critisem welcome comments like "in my day it took a months training to undock" or just "NO" need to be backed up with reasons why you think its a bad idea.
Sorry if my english is not so good.
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Zor Chayne
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:37:00 -
[3]
lol where's my wow disk gone?!?!?
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:37:00 -
[4]
No. Go away.
When I joined a year ago I had something tiny like 200k SP. Now you start with like 800k SP right? You don't need a boost to 10 million.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:43:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/01/2008 11:44:10 New players already effectively train at a higher rate - it's faster to get to level 4 in a skill than it is to go from level 4 to 5.
On top of that, a new player can already play an effective role in PvP within a couple of weeks.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Cat Steele
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cat Steele on 22/01/2008 11:43:36 I disagree. Who wants a bunch of 4 month noobies flying around in the games best ships? Why would they continue to play? They've already scaled Mount Everest, what's left for them to do now? Shoot each other? Why not just play Unreal Tournament there is no skill training in that game.
The trial is there for new players to try the game to see if it suits them, if it does great they can subscribe, if it doesn't, they will quickly go back to whatever game they came from. No amount of free gear, skills or accelerated training will change that.
Case in point, when I tried WOW, I disliked it so much I uninstalled a 14 day free trial on the 2nd day. No amount of goodies could have kept me there.
C.S.
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Zor Chayne
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Frug No. Go away.
When I joined a year ago I had something tiny like 200k SP. Now you start with like 800k SP right? You don't need a boost to 10 million.
lawl, bitter.
Player with <10mil SP: "hell yeah, great idea" Player with >10mil SP: "Hell naw, bad idea" Player with >60mil SP: "waaaah, no, ive been hear since it started, I deserve lotz of stuff and you shud respekt me!!!"
"heh"
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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Frug No. Go away.
When I joined a year ago I had something tiny like 200k SP. Now you start with like 800k SP right? You don't need a boost to 10 million.
Solipsistic, Selfish and Unconstructive.
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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gazghkull on 22/01/2008 11:54:36
Originally by: Cat Steele Edited by: Cat Steele on 22/01/2008 11:43:36 I disagree. Who wants a bunch of 4 month noobies flying around in the games best ships? Why would they continue to play? They've already scaled Mount Everest, what's left for them to do now? Shoot each other? Why not just play Unreal Tournament there is no skill training in that game.
The trial is there for new players to try the game to see if it suits them, if it does great they can subscribe, if it doesn't, they will quickly go back to whatever game they came from. No amount of free gear, skills or accelerated training will change that.
Case in point, when I tried WOW, I disliked it so much I uninstalled a 14 day free trial on the 2nd day. No amount of goodies could have kept me there.
C.S.
I think the 4 month old noobies want to fly around in some of the games best ships you say 4 months like its nothing its a very long time.
When you say whats there left to do but shot each other? i thought your were realy onto something but only if i took it out of context. :P
Its not like 10 mill SP is even close to endgame but it may get you into battleship that wont die the first lvl4 mission you try or if you specialize a worthwhile role in pvp as a dictor or logistics pilot.
I i wanted skill training removed from eve i would of said that but i dident.
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Kransthow
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:51:00 -
[10]
No, deal with it
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Cat Steele
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:54:00 -
[11]
C.S.
I think the 4 month old noobies want to fly around in some of the games best ships you say 4 months like its nothing its a very long time.
Its not like 10 mill SP is even close to endgame but it may get you into battleship that wont die the first lvl4 mission you try or if you specialize a worthwhile role in pvp as a dictor or logistics pilot.
I i wanted skill training removed from eve i would of said that but i dident.
You asked for feedback, and I'm giving it to you. I've been playing this game for years, I didn't whine about how long it took to train my skills, and neither should you.
C.S.
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:55:00 -
[12]
Eve is going to succumb to idiocracy
Thankfully at least no breeding is involved.
So what I'm saying is, No. --
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Hegemony DuRoche
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:56:00 -
[13]
That's the trouble with youngsters today. Instant gratification is all they care about.
And don't imagine that this idea hasn't been suggested a zillion times before in a zillion different ways.
The increase in starting SP a while ago was okay, I guess. But now you can roll a character who can start belt piracy in a rifter instantly and do it well in a week of further training. And that's the point, isn't it? Eve isn't about instant shiny battleships, it's about getting involved. You can do that without 10M SP.
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Seven Reth
Minmatar Institute of Engineering STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:56:00 -
[14]
You can already be competitive in a few months, especially if you "carefully specialise in a certain ship/weapon class. You can be competitive in a frigate from week one, and can be pretty useful in a BC inside a few. As a new player what more do I need to start having fun?
The waiting tends to even out too, because before you are able to fly that shiny new ship, you have to be able to afford it, and given that you shouldn't fly anything you can't afford several of, if you're talking battleships, that's going to take some time. I can't afford to fly one yet, so what good is the skill to me anyway?
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Cat Steele
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Richard Phallus Eve is going to succumb to idiocracy
Thankfully at least no breeding is involved.
So what I'm saying is, No.
LOL. /signed
C.S.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:05:00 -
[16]
No.
What I have got is me well earned. I have trained for a long time to get to the point where I am. Shortcuts for new players to get to the same level as me, which is now on my thrid year in EVE will not be accepted. It would be a breach on the trust between players and devs. The devs can only do so and so much without totally offending their loyal playerbase. SWG and SOE learned the hard way what that will say offending their playerbase..
Besides, you dont need to hold as much SPs as one of the veterans to be effective in PvP!!! You will need some time yes, but within a few months you can be a quite skilled PvPer, and within a 13-15 months you can be a force to reckon with on the PvP field, flying for example command ships!
Diminishing the veterans is not the right way to go. Its the surest way to destroy the game!
PS: I dont consider myself as a veteran, even if I have been a member of EVE for like 26 months now.
Advice: Dont think Skillpoints! Think Ships! Think arms! Think modules! And for christ sake: Specialize!! Dont try to fly all ships!
Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
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Ovno ConSyquence
Amarr Free Mercenaries Union FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:06:00 -
[17]
1) Ideas like this turn up all the time and always get flamed down.
2) As already mentioned you start with 10 times the sp we used too.
3) Advanced learning skill requirements have reduced to 4 instead of 5, meaning that you spend less time training them.
4) Contrary to popular opinion it is not worth training your learning skills beyond 3 until at least your third month of play, you may train slower but as you only training to lvl 3 for most skills it doesn't matter and you get to play with loads of new toys as you progress. (plus I know so many people who thought they were doing the right thing training them first who then left because they haven't progressed)
5) Skill points != level, a 1 month of noob can kill a 60 mil xp vet with ease if the noob is fitted right or in a gang with friends and the vet is caught out ratting etc
6) In general more xp = more choice not more effective (obviously some skills do really help but 90% of any vets skill points went into level 5 skills which still only give you another 5% effectiveness)
7) What does this have to do with casual gaming, you train whether your logged in or not.
8) Trail players upgrade if they like the game, giving them an incentive just means we'll get more whiney peeps who only joined because of the incentive.
9) Just no.
10) something about the good old days
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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cat Steele C.S.
I think the 4 month old noobies want to fly around in some of the games best ships you say 4 months like its nothing its a very long time.
Its not like 10 mill SP is even close to endgame but it may get you into battleship that wont die the first lvl4 mission you try or if you specialize a worthwhile role in pvp as a dictor or logistics pilot.
I i wanted skill training removed from eve i would of said that but i dident.
You asked for feedback, and I'm giving it to you. I've been playing this game for years, I didn't whine about how long it took to train my skills, and neither should you.
C.S.
Am i right in thinking that when you started the most skill intensive thing you could train for was a battleship and t2 and its painfull sp requirements were a twinkle in the developers eyes everything is relative as far as im concerned the more you need to train the faster the training needs to be, besides how would this effect older players? more newbies with the confidence to make the move to 0.0 can only add to the entertainment.
Oh and if ccp did this they can expect a healthy influx of new players that cant be bad also older player may decide to make new acounts and try another races combat ships or specialize in science and industry.
The only reson i can see older players dislikeing this idea is the fact no one came up with it when they were still struggling to find there feet.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gazghkull
Originally by: Frug No. Go away.
When I joined a year ago I had something tiny like 200k SP. Now you start with like 800k SP right? You don't need a boost to 10 million.
Solipsistic, Selfish and Unconstructive.
We already see too many new players losing ships they have no idea how to fight with. 1-week old players in battlecruisers, 2 week players in battleships.
Fact: player intelligence and experience count for at least as much as skillpoints. 10M SP is not the bare minimum required to be successful at PvP (or level 4 missions, come to that). 5M plus experience, courage and intelligence will beat 10M + never left hi-sec every single time.
Your post clearly indicates that you think you suck because you don't have 10M skillpoints. That's not why you suck.
EvE is about patience, long term goals, trade-offs. Accept that or find a different game, because if you lack patience, you'll never really enjoy EvE.
If you're that desperate for the millions of skillpoints you think will mean you won't suck, sell a few GTC and buy a character. They're pretty cheap atm, I understand.
Still, I'll throw you a bone. Want to know how you can do a level 4 mission with 3M skillpoints? Here's a hint: what do the 2 Ms in MMOG stand for?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gazghkull
Originally by: Cat Steele C.S.
I think the 4 month old noobies want to fly around in some of the games best ships you say 4 months like its nothing its a very long time.
Its not like 10 mill SP is even close to endgame but it may get you into battleship that wont die the first lvl4 mission you try or if you specialize a worthwhile role in pvp as a dictor or logistics pilot.
I i wanted skill training removed from eve i would of said that but i dident.
You asked for feedback, and I'm giving it to you. I've been playing this game for years, I didn't whine about how long it took to train my skills, and neither should you.
C.S.
Am i right in thinking that when you started the most skill intensive thing you could train for was a battleship and t2 and its painfull sp requirements were a twinkle in the developers eyes everything is relative as far as im concerned the more you need to train the faster the training needs to be, besides how would this effect older players? more newbies with the confidence to make the move to 0.0 can only add to the entertainment.
Oh and if ccp did this they can expect a healthy influx of new players that cant be bad also older player may decide to make new acounts and try another races combat ships or specialize in science and industry.
The only reson i can see older players dislikeing this idea is the fact no one came up with it when they were still struggling to find there feet.
Am I right in thinking that when battleships were the acme of combat power, there were no cheap +4 implants or advanced learning skills or hi-sec missions or salvage or any of the other huge starting advantages new players get now?
Why yes, yes I am!
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:19:00 -
[21]
i can see by the venom older players are spitting how insecure they are and the fact ive linked the idea with reasons why it may make ccp some money makes the idea even more dangerous, i also havent heard one thing about the idea that would effect older players its not like you stand to lose anything, also i find the arrogance of some ppl unsavory.
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Brother Tycho
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:26:00 -
[22]
If this ever happend i would make a Gal toon amarr for the lose atm but if theres one thing i know devs do supriseing things when they see $ in there eyes look at swg and that died catering to wow nubs -------------------------------------------- All the girls say im pretty fly for Ni-Kunni. |
Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence 1) Ideas like this turn up all the time and always get flamed down.
2) As already mentioned you start with 10 times the sp we used too.
3) Advanced learning skill requirements have reduced to 4 instead of 5, meaning that you spend less time training them.
4) Contrary to popular opinion it is not worth training your learning skills beyond 3 until at least your third month of play, you may train slower but as you only training to lvl 3 for most skills it doesn't matter and you get to play with loads of new toys as you progress. (plus I know so many people who thought they were doing the right thing training them first who then left because they haven't progressed)
5) Skill points != level, a 1 month of noob can kill a 60 mil xp vet with ease if the noob is fitted right or in a gang with friends and the vet is caught out ratting etc
6) In general more xp = more choice not more effective (obviously some skills do really help but 90% of any vets skill points went into level 5 skills which still only give you another 5% effectiveness)
7) What does this have to do with casual gaming, you train whether your logged in or not.
8) Trail players upgrade if they like the game, giving them an incentive just means we'll get more whiney peeps who only joined because of the incentive.
9) Just no.
10) something about the good old days
Best counter agument so far what, was point 9 responding to? |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gazghkull i can see by the venom older players are spitting how insecure they are and the fact ive linked the idea with reasons why it may make ccp some money makes the idea even more dangerous, i also havent heard one thing about the idea that would effect older players its not like you stand to lose anything, also i find the arrogance of some ppl unsavory.
Honestly. Is it not arrogance and greedyness not to mention lazyness, not to be willing to work for something?
I have worked hard to get to the point where I am. When I started in 2005 there where plenty of people who where quite good! Everyone had by then too millions of skillpoints! But I ignored those, and instead consentrated on my own business! And so should you!
Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
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Anhammerad
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Anhammerad on 22/01/2008 12:33:58 It seems to me that the question here is 'Why should you get faster training times?'
From reading your op the answer I have gained thus far is:
'I quit the game because training took too long so I want to train faster than everyone else until I am ready. It's not fair that people who've been playing longer have better things than me' (You said it yourself, where's your WoW disc so you can go spend 10 hours a day grinding to level 50 or whatever WoW goes up to (wouldn't know myself - hated it after the first 3 hours on day one, thought it was childish, boring and much too easy (maybe the easiness aspect is why so many play it, sad day for humanity))).
Now please feel free to correct me if I am wrong players that think those not liking this idea are selfish and solipsistic but the OP's above attitude strikes me as exactly the same thing with a touch of laziness heaped on top for good measure.
Originally by: Gazghkull Its not like 10 mill SP is even close to endgame
Oh and by the way this (^^) line demonstrates that the OP just does not understand what EVE is about in my opinion.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Gazghkull i can see by the venom older players are spitting how insecure they are and the fact ive linked the idea with reasons why it may make ccp some money makes the idea even more dangerous, i also havent heard one thing about the idea that would effect older players its not like you stand to lose anything, also i find the arrogance of some ppl unsavory.
Honestly. Is it not arrogance and greedyness not to mention lazyness, not to be willing to work for something?
I have worked hard to get to the point where I am. When I started in 2005 there where plenty of people who where quite good! Everyone had by then too millions of skillpoints! But I ignored those, and instead consentrated on my own business! And so should you!
No you don't understand. It's impossible to enjoy playing a game like eve if anyone has more skills or a better ship! No-one could possibly have fun roaming around in a frigate looking for opportunities and scheming for a way to pay for their first cruiser and dreaming of the day when they finally get a battlecruiser. If there's one thing that makes achieving goals more fun and satisfying, it's making those goals quick and easy to achieve. What possible point could there be in having long term goals? Surely what's best for CCP is to make yet another MMOG where you can hit level 70 in 3 months, have nothing left to achieve, and then move on to "beat" the next online game. That's the way for them to make more money! The fact that subscriber numbers have risen every month for the last 3 years only goes to prove this, since they'd obviously have risen faster if the game were completely different in nature.
Anyone who disagrees is just bitter and hates new players. They can't possibly know more about EvE than a guy who's just started so they should just shut up. They probably kill puppies and kittens as well! (LOL!)
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Gazghkull i can see by the venom older players are spitting how insecure they are and the fact ive linked the idea with reasons why it may make ccp some money makes the idea even more dangerous, i also havent heard one thing about the idea that would effect older players its not like you stand to lose anything, also i find the arrogance of some ppl unsavory.
Honestly. Is it not arrogance and greedyness not to mention lazyness, not to be willing to work for something?
I have worked hard to get to the point where I am. When I started in 2005 there where plenty of people who where quite good! Everyone had by then too millions of skillpoints! But I ignored those, and instead consentrated on my own business! And so should you!
No you don't understand. It's impossible to enjoy playing a game like eve if anyone has more skills or a better ship!
In other words, among the 210.000 players in eve, only one is having fun. Dr. Caymus
Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
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Gazghkull
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:47:00 -
[28]
Maybe 10 mill sp is to high but help upto say 3 mill sp to ease new players into the game would be a great welcome gift to new players and alot of people ive tried to convince to play have had second thoughts after takeing a closer look at the time investment involved.
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Zo'Ra Achura
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Posted - 2008.01.22 13:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gazghkull ...have had second thoughts after takeing a closer look at the time investment involved.
You can have fun in your first week of Eve.... you don't need 10 mil isk before you can start having fun. If your friends cannot bother to spend some time skilling up in a MMO game that even allows you to train skills WHILE YOU'RE NOT LOGGED IN, then this game is not for them. That's ok, nothing wrong with that but you just have to accept that and move on...
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Oddball
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.22 13:05:00 -
[30]
The point is that it already has been made easier. Starting skill points were already increased. It's just not easy enough for you.
So no.
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