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Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.24 16:47:00 -
[1]
Right, this is not a whine. I love my Lachesis but the entire Lachesis thread is pretty obsolete now.
The Lachesis used to be popular and wanted in gangs. Long range warp disruption + ECM was very fun.
Now there are tons of ships with extended disruption (EA Frigs, HICs) and the nerf on damps is such that you might as well fit ECM (and thus fly a blackbird). 4 midslots to somewhat disable one ship... even unbonused ECM is more desirable.
So what are some crazy setups that work? 7 midslots: I tried some crazy shield tank bait setups, and fitting 3 drone nav computers and 2 target painters made for some fun inty popping but it still doesn't seem to have a role to fill so I always feel like I'm cheating the gang if I bring my Lachesis out.
Anybody got a solid combat role for this ship that shouldn't be filled by another ship? (i.e. ECM means you should really fly caldari, small guns and sensor boosters means you should really be in a destroyer or frig).
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arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.24 16:50:00 -
[2]
You MIGHT want to consider using bonussed damps rather than unbonussed ecm's. Other than that, cant fly this ship (yet), but from what i hear it is pretty obsolete because of the damp nerf (but as far as i know, teh devs^tm said they would 'look' at the current situation on damp bonussed ships, dont flame me for this if it isnt true).
Nice hamster! - Mindstar
Thanks!
We wont touch this sig! - Cortes
I lied - Cortes
LIAR! |
Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.24 16:55:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: arbalesttom
You MIGHT want to consider using bonussed damps rather than unbonussed ecm's. Other than that, cant fly this ship (yet), but from what i hear it is pretty obsolete because of the damp nerf (but as far as i know, teh devs^tm said they would 'look' at the current situation on damp bonussed ships, dont flame me for this if it isnt true).
First thing I did. 
All the stories you have heard about the damp nerf are true.
Even putting three well skilled and bonused damps with range scripts on a BS still leaves them enough range to fight pretty effectively and makes it hard to keep away. And damps are stacking nerfed so above three there is hardly any effect. You can put 7 bonused and scripted damps on somebody and still watch them shoot your gangmates from 10-20km.
Anyway, this isn't supposed to be a damp nerf whine. Let's try to toss out ideas. I've given two that are playable: bait ship and a fun drone trick.
I'm hoping we'll find a fun role that can justify bringing the Lachesis to gangs without the FC asking me to change ships 
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Kel Solaar
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:29:00 -
[4]
I'm still flying mine but yeah it's a total piece of crap now ...
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Pans Exual
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:37:00 -
[5]
The lachesis is an awesome heavy tackler. It has crazy scramble range, can get terrific scan resolution, fits a 1600mm plate, etc.
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demonfurbie
Minmatar
Covert-Nexus
Blue Sun Trust
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:45:00 -
[6]
trade it in for a falcon
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:53:00 -
[7]
Until Remote Sensor Dampeners get boosted, you may want to try filling a heavy tackler roll. Load up a point or two and then passive shield tank it to death. Scram at max range while lobbing missiles and/or rail fire on them. You will need someone up close to web for you though or you'll be useless.
In other words, turn it into a poor-mans', non-capital-scramming Heavy 'Dictor.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.01.24 17:53:00 -
[8]
They're still useful for long range warp disruption.
I'm sure a BS pilot would be greatly annoyed if you used the sensor resolution scripts and made their lock time on ships glacial. Combine that with an ECM pilot that gets a jam cycle in and you can neutralize the BS (sure an ECM can shut down a BS on its own - but now it may not have to dedicate as many of its ECM modules to the same ship and be freed to jam more ships than normal).
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.24 18:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Pans Exual
The lachesis is an awesome heavy tackler. It has crazy scramble range, can get terrific scan resolution, fits a 1600mm plate, etc.
I'm finding the tackle range isn't much of a differentiator anymore. It used to be almost twice the range of anyone else, more with overheating. Now if you get a couple EA frigates in gang (very common now) your disruption is likely to be redundant, especially because the frigs are more manueverable and faster to lock as well.
Scan res is okay. I find 1600mm setup prohibitively slow and clumsy though. If you actually fly with one please share your post-trinity setup.
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Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.24 18:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Edited by: Omarvelous on 24/01/2008 17:57:18
P.S. Range scripts still negate 1 major advantage of an ECM ship - Range. Usually ECM pilots are near optimal and not using speed mods (exception Kitsune). 1 damp will drop them into falloff - 2 damps throws them deep into fall off (ie now they're useless)...
Actually I'm fairly certain that's a bit of an error you've got there. It doesn't change module range, just locking range. If I cut a falcons lock range from 140km to 70km he can still use his ECM normally, but only out to 70km.
Just a point of order.
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Lois Bishop
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.24 19:11:00 -
[11]
lachesis w/ lock time scrips + x2 diemos w/ neutrons + jammer drones = sexy
lachesis in roaming nanogang damping carriers/logistics/huginns/rapiers/E-war= sexy
lachesis vrs carrier == x2 sexy
-Lois Bishop
Recovering Nano-fag, Nano-free for 0 days, 0 hours, 42 seconds
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.01.24 19:34:00 -
[12]
Lachesis is good for 1) catching mission runners 2) camping minmatar gates
Nothing else. "Combat Recon" isn't a fitting name anymore , that ship can't fight at all - will be killed by the first passing 'rax.
Originally by: ivan draco
we didnt want your post anyway
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General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.01.24 19:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: General Coochie on 24/01/2008 19:54:22
Works good for gankin mission runners and as ppl said heavy tackler. Id prefer a nano fit when tackling though. Perma run mwd, some damps and disruptor. If you got a 1600mm plate, a lot of ships could simply out run you.
It suckely sucks for ewar though.
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Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.24 23:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lois Bishop
lachesis w/ lock time scrips + x2 diemos w/ neutrons + jammer drones = sexy
lachesis in roaming nanogang damping carriers/logistics/huginns/rapiers/E-war= sexy
lachesis vrs carrier == x2 sexy
I have to assume this is "forum pvp".
Huginn/Rapier have locking ranges of 156km with the skills you should have to fly one (125 base). Even three bonused, scripted post-trinity damps won't change that far enough to effect extended web range AT ALL. 
Respect to the TRIUM alliance ticker, but I'm guessing if you fly these ship types you haven't since trinity hit. That or perhaps you're hoping to decrease the opposition by spreading bad info.... 
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Lois Bishop
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.25 00:08:00 -
[15]
yea sorry i wasn't clear, usually just throw lock time scrips on huginn/rapier (in our gangs usually primaried)
-Lois Bishop
Recovering Nano-fag, Nano-free for 0 days, 0 hours, 42 seconds
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Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.25 00:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lois Bishop
yea sorry i wasn't clear, usually just throw lock time scrips on huginn/rapier (in our gangs usually primaried)
Ah,so. That would work 
I suppose that's a viable tactical niche for the Lachesis: delaying the "kryptonite" to your gangs uber-setup long enough for it to be primaried down.
Very nice.
(Doesn't happen to work for me as I don't Nanof... umm... our gangs usually don't have lots of overdrives.)
That's the kind of out of the box thinking this thread is for though. I present you this golden Lachesis in award <clunk>
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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.01.25 02:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Stakhanov
Lachesis is good for 1) catching mission runners 2) camping minmatar gates
Yepyep, that's pretty much all we use them for.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:12:00 -
[18]
I now know what you do with a Lachesis.
Nano Lachesis + long range nano gang = pod
Some buds of mine and I got jumped by this type of gang last night. They don't have to kill your lock range completely, just get it under 30km or so, be faster than you, and be able to kill you from range. They had the numbers on us too so it was pretty lopsided.
Props A4D.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.01.25 15:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Emmerlaine
Originally by: Omarvelous
Edited by: Omarvelous on 24/01/2008 17:57:18
P.S. Range scripts still negate 1 major advantage of an ECM ship - Range. Usually ECM pilots are near optimal and not using speed mods (exception Kitsune). 1 damp will drop them into falloff - 2 damps throws them deep into fall off (ie now they're useless)...
Actually I'm fairly certain that's a bit of an error you've got there. It doesn't change module range, just locking range. If I cut a falcons lock range from 140km to 70km he can still use his ECM normally, but only out to 70km.
Just a point of order.
I don't know why I was thinking of tracking disruptors on guns...
You're right - ECM strength is unaffected - you will just cut their lock range down - since they aren't speed fit you may drop them out of lock range and unable to use their ecm is what I meant.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Aston Gulliver
Gallente
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2008.01.25 15:56:00 -
[20]
H - 3 Heavy Launchers, 2 200MM rails
M - 10mn Micro, 3 LSE, 2 Invuln, 1 Disrupter
L - 2 RCU, 1 DMG Control or 1 BCU
Rigs - EM Shield, Thermal Shield or Kinetic Shield
Drones: 3 Hammerheads, 2 Hobogoblins
Tank is pretty damn crazy. I've tanked a Deimos and Cyclone at the same time as well as a Blaster Rokh / Cane combo. 40km + point and decent DPS, key factor here is the ship is damn cheap now...
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.25 17:55:00 -
[21]
lach is good, but there are better options to disrupt your enemy (rook), and keep him in place (tackling inties) now.
so until they boost the gallente recon line, they have limited uses, unlike the caldari and minmatar recon lines.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Aston Gulliver
Gallente
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2008.01.25 18:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Grimpak
lach is good, but there are better options to disrupt your enemy (rook), and keep him in place (tackling inties) now.
so until they boost the gallente recon line, they have limited uses, unlike the caldari and minmatar recon lines.
Are you double accounting?
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Khorian
Gallente
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.01.25 18:47:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Khorian on 25/01/2008 18:49:23
Lachesis is incredibly cheap heavy tackler for low sec gate camps. Extremely high Scan resolution if fitted correctly, 8 points with a range of about 20km, ideal for gate activities. Fit a plate and EANM and tank Sentries easily with a remote repper.
If you land in a low sec gate camp and see a lachesis and you are in anything bigger than a frig, dont even try to run from the gate, your travel fitting wont save you (especially if the camp also has a huginn/rapier). Move back to the gate and jump through.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.25 19:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aston Gulliver
Originally by: Grimpak
lach is good, but there are better options to disrupt your enemy (rook), and keep him in place (tackling inties) now.
so until they boost the gallente recon line, they have limited uses, unlike the caldari and minmatar recon lines.
Are you double accounting?
I might hear voices very frequently, but I proud myself of being a 4-year vet and never had a single alt or 2nd account.
I also proud myself in flying with my gang mates, and not solo. and considering our gang setups, I can say that if they have one, I can provide the other.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Aston Gulliver
Gallente
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2008.01.25 20:51:00 -
[25]
Quote:
I might hear voices very frequently, but I proud myself of being a 4-year vet and never had a single alt or 2nd account.
I also proud myself in flying with my gang mates, and not solo. and considering our gang setups, I can say that if they have one, I can provide the other.
That was sarcasm mate. You basically said "why fly a lachesis when a falcon and an inty are just as good if not better. Unless you can double account, I'm not sure that statement holds water, and if you throw 2 ships into the mix, why not a falcon and a lachesis, or deimos and lachesis or....
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Ratzap
Gallente
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.01.25 22:47:00 -
[26]
Damps are a bit "meh" now yeah but it's still plenty good for long distance scrams. It's not hard for quick ships to get out of bubbles. Lock fast, scram to 46km or so with t2 disruptors and you have much better chances of getting them before they can warp.
Ratzap
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.25 23:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Aston Gulliver
Quote:
I might hear voices very frequently, but I proud myself of being a 4-year vet and never had a single alt or 2nd account.
I also proud myself in flying with my gang mates, and not solo. and considering our gang setups, I can say that if they have one, I can provide the other.
That was sarcasm mate. You basically said "why fly a lachesis when a falcon and an inty are just as good if not better. Unless you can double account, I'm not sure that statement holds water, and if you throw 2 ships into the mix, why not a falcon and a lachesis, or deimos and lachesis or....
what I was trying to say is that the lach is not the ship it was before and that there are better alternatives.
A gang will most likely pack some sort of tackler in the form of interceptor now that they were boosted, or at least a vagabond. Sure the range is much smaller, but we're talking about scramming targets in ships that can lock damn fast and stay away from neutralizers, and still be fast enough to outrun most of the other counters.
which means that the only role that the lach can have is in the Ewar department. However, again, CCP forgot to take into account that the dampening ships line was fine and nerfed it together with the dampners. If it wasn't enough, ECM recieved a boost in form of less cap used and an improved falcon that now jams as good as the rook, but trades firepower for cloaking capabilities.
with those factors, and considering that ECM is a much better force multiplier than sensor dampening, if you had to chose between a glorified tackler that can, at most take a single ship out of the battle and a ship that can pretty much put 4 ships out of the battle, I'm definitely pending to the latter one.
as for the sarcasm bit, I know that you were being sarcastic
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planetary interaction idea! |
Celedris
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.01.26 04:24:00 -
[28]
Damp nerf trashed it's previous role as a flexible EW ship. Mid-ranged faux HAC is it's best role at present IMO:
3x HML II, 2x D-150mm II
MWD, 2x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, Med Cap Booster
2x Overdrive II, Nano II
2x Polycarbon rigs / 3x Hammerheads + 2x Wars
Requires tons of skills to fly well and not really worth it, but it does fly ~3.5 to 4km/s, 250-300dps at 40-50km depending on skills, 35k effective hitpoints and good regen, and most importantly tackles up to 48km and overheat tackles near 60km. Can change between T2 and best named mods depending on skills & implants as it is very tight on grid, can also drop some tank for a second point. Cheap hull and very resistant to ECM with 30 sensor strength; Not bad but probably not worth it to poly and there are much better choices when deciding what to fly in a small gang.
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Emmerlaine
Gallente
Crab and Krawdad Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.26 16:38:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Emmerlaine on 26/01/2008 16:38:57
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aston Gulliver
Originally by: Grimpak
lach is good, but there are better options to disrupt your enemy (rook), and keep him in place (tackling inties) now.
so until they boost the gallente recon line, they have limited uses, unlike the caldari and minmatar recon lines.
Are you double accounting?
I might hear voices very frequently, but I proud myself of being a 4-year vet and never had a single alt or 2nd account.
I also proud myself in flying with my gang mates, and not solo. and considering our gang setups, I can say that if they have one, I can provide the other.
(I hope this isn't a "pyramid quote" all that is relevant...)
Very well put Grimpak, this is the same thing I'm finding. The conventional Lachesis roles are more than met in most gangs because every race has tackling intys now and the damps don't do much anymore.
Those fitting the Lach as a psuedo-HAC, I have some issues with your setups. I have good skills and I can try out other (real) HACS/HICS with similar fits and make ships that are better in every way (more dps with more tank and speed too for example). The long range scram is a little nice but I'm just finding, again in gangs, that I almost never get to use it because of all the tiny long-range tacklers flying around.
I do like the "mission tackler" role a couple people have pointed out, that one is pretty valid. Gonna have to start hunting mission-runners I guess :) 
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