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What's wrong with the forums?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:13:00 - [1] Everytime I reply to a post it logs me out and asks me to log in when I click post/reply blanking out my post -- eve-guides.com All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!!
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:15:00 - [2] It seems like whatever code generates the session IDs for the forums occasionally generates a string of bad ones (a.k.a. ones that the server doesn't recognize properly; that makes you log in again despite the fact that you were already logged in. I use firefox, and whenever I have this bug I just click the reply/quote/new topic button about four or five times. This opens up four new tabs, and at least one of those will have a valid session ID (I have my account set to automatically log in and remember my username/password). ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Braaage Everytime I reply to a post it logs me out and asks me to log in when I click post/reply blanking out my post It sometimes also erases my post when Ive written it and press post and you cant get it back. Search function is also total crap.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Braaage Everytime I reply to a post it logs me out and asks me to log in when I click post/reply blanking out my post It sometimes also erases my post when Ive written it and press post and you cant get it back. Search function is also total crap. Just hit the back button and your post should still be there - it is for me anyway. Are you using IE or Firefox? ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:23:00 - [5] Yeah oddly after posting this it stopped doing it -- eve-guides.com All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!!
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:24:00 - [6] Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 24/01/2008 21:24:06 Always copy your post to the clipboard before pressing the button. One day, CCP will fix this forum, and there will be much rejoicing. ________________
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 24/01/2008 21:24:06 Always copy your post to the clipboard before pressing the button. One day, CCP will fix this forum, and there will be much rejoicing. At least we know for sure that someone is actually working on them now. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2

CCP Mitnal	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:08:00 - [8] I believe the system is that once you log in you are assigned to a certain box on the server, the forum server is spread over more than one box. What can happen is during session changes or any activity on the forums you can be moved from box to box, in which case you're effectively logged out and can lose your post (unless you copy it/ctrl x/ctrl v). Thankfully it is much rarer now than in the past and my incredibly un-technological explanation is not the most comprehensive (or accurate) but explains the essence of the problem. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang

An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 07:21:00 - [9] I do have an issue similar to this where it pretty much doesn't let my login stay logged in. It happens 95% of the time on Firefox, but it never happens on IE or Safari. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Vested Interest	Posted - 2008.01.25 07:58:00 - [10] 100% of the time I go to reply or quote a post, it takes me right back to the thread. 2nd time in the thread the edit button will appear and they all work. This is with Firefox.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:21:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Mitnal I believe the system is that once you log in you are assigned to a certain box on the server, the forum server is spread over more than one box. What can happen is during session changes or any activity on the forums you can be moved from box to box, in which case you're effectively logged out and can lose your post (unless you copy it/ctrl x/ctrl v). Thankfully it is much rarer now than in the past and my incredibly un-technological explanation is not the most comprehensive (or accurate) but explains the essence of the problem. Well then please fix this problem, it has been a PITA for many months. It's not hard to share session information between servers or to keep users on a particular server depending on the session cookie - pretty much all load balancers can do this ("cookie based persistence"). I've had to log in as much as 15-20 times on a bad day and CCP hasn't even managed to post a workaround for this year-old problem (hint: delete all session cookies for myeve.eve-online.com).
Zytrel Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Lazuran (hint: delete all session cookies for myeve.eve-online.com). This. I've also had troubles login in. Clearing all cookies helped and also stopped the forum settings (like default posting char) from getting lost.
Zor Chayne Hedion University	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:21:00 - [13] Originally by: CCP Mitnal I believe the system is that once you log in you are assigned to a certain box on the server, the forum server is spread over more than one box. What can happen is during session changes or any activity on the forums you can be moved from box to box, in which case you're effectively logged out and can lose your post (unless you copy it/ctrl x/ctrl v). Thankfully it is much rarer now than in the past and my incredibly un-technological explanation is not the most comprehensive (or accurate) but explains the essence of the problem. hahha, oh god don't admit something like that. These forums - considering their level of public visibility and popularity - are insanely poor. The only reason I can see for not switching to another forums platform is the stubbornness of your coders, or some kind of denial about how good they are at coding forums (hint: not good). Case in point, remember when the goons spammed the forums and the code got so confused that the stickies were falling off the front page? Yeah. Quite.
w0rmy M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Lazuran Well then please fix this problem, it has been a PITA for many months. It's not hard to share session information between servers or to keep users on a particular server depending on the session cookie - pretty much all load balancers can do this ("cookie based persistence"). I got half a dozen old Alteon cache directors and some third party code for them thatll do the job. T20 is welcome to steal them off me if theyre any help in fixing this Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Vahligmarr Minmatar 14th Legion	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:37:00 - [15] same prob here
Xaen Caldari Black Podding	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:01:00 - [16] How about the fact that after a fairly short amount of time, you're quietly logged out. I have my username & password saved, but I still have to click log in. From a user's perspective it's completely nonsensical. If I don't actually have to re-enter my login information, why am I ever logged out? Does CCP just like making me click things? For those of us that save our logins, it's just a completely unnecessary hiccup between us and being able to post. Many sites that save login information don't have anything like this. You're just always logged in. For reals, dog. Why are these forums so bad at it? -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.25 23:20:00 - [17] Well, looks like super-troll has posted in this thread. But I'm going to ignore it, and would like to know if anyone knows why it is only Firefox that won't let me stay logged in. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Arc Anna Caldari Pacific Starfleet Command	Posted - 2008.01.26 01:13:00 - [18] The forum is excessively aggravating; almost 100% of the time I want to post I prolly had to click "log in" 20 times, flashing between pages of "Please Wait", back to "log in" and re-displaying the thread in question, without ever once seeing the Reply to Topic screen! Why can't CCP use a proper commercial bulletin board?
Eyal Thorn Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.01.26 01:46:00 - [19] Edited by: Eyal Thorn on 26/01/2008 01:49:34 Originally by: CCP Mitnal I believe the system is that once you log in you are assigned to a certain box on the server, the forum server is spread over more than one box. What can happen is during session changes or any activity on the forums you can be moved from box to box, in which case you're effectively logged out and can lose your post (unless you copy it/ctrl x/ctrl v). Thankfully it is much rarer now than in the past and my incredibly un-technological explanation is not the most comprehensive (or accurate) but explains the essence of the problem. Uhhh...my head hurts from reading this...but, your web developers have heard of the term "session affinity" right? "Invented" for web applications in the mid 90's (although a much older concept in computing I believe) to prevent the kind of problems you describe. Your load balancing layer keeps track of each session cookie and routes them to the same server (box? - node is the common term for a physical server) that they originally was assigned to as long as the session is valid. An even better, but performance wise more costly concept: Session persistence. Your session data is stored in a common DB at the back so that no matter what "box" you are routed to via the load balancing layer they all find your session data in that one repository, and can check validity, state, data or other things they need. Now, if a session is invalidated through timeouts etc. nothing will help, because you have set a timeout that kills the session, so a new one has to be established through a login. But this should be totally independent of what server you are routed to as that is usually random in any load balancing scheme. And when you kill a server side session, the cookie on the client should be invalidated at roughly the same time so that you don't get the problems described above (having to manually kill cookies etc.) Sorry if this sounds a bit "better than thou", and I see from your post that this isn't your field of expertise, but these are basic principles of design for high traffic sites that have been around for over a decade. And today all web application middleware includes this functionality as default...at least any OSS/J2EE based ones...and yes I have designed some heavy traffic sites in my time... _______________ Cheers Eyal
Zor Chayne Hedion University	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Eyal Thorn Uhhh...my head hurts from reading this...but, your web developers have heard of the term "session affinity" right? "Invented" for web applications in the mid 90's (although a much older concept in computing I believe) to prevent the kind of problems you describe. Your load balancing layer keeps track of each session cookie and routes them to the same server (box? - node is the common term for a physical server) that they originally was assigned to as long as the session is valid. An even better, but performance wise more costly concept: Session persistence. Your session data is stored in a common DB at the back so that no matter what "box" you are routed to via the load balancing layer they all find your session data in that one repository, and can check validity, state, data or other things they need. Now, if a session is invalidated through timeouts etc. nothing will help, because you have set a timeout that kills the session, so a new one has to be established through a login. But this should be totally independent of what server you are routed to as that is usually random in any load balancing scheme. And when you kill a server side session, the cookie on the client should be invalidated at roughly the same time so that you don't get the problems described above (having to manually kill cookies etc.) Sorry if this sounds a bit "better than thou", and I see from your post that this isn't your field of expertise, but these are basic principles of design for high traffic sites that have been around for over a decade. And today all web application middleware includes this functionality as default...at least any OSS/J2EE based ones...and yes I have designed some heavy traffic sites in my time... ...good god, someone needs to kick all the MS trained script kiddies a**es - they wouldn't know what computing is if it hit them flat in the face, and do it before they wreck the entire internet. To think that some of these brainfarts are coding web banking solutions is frightening... Please don't tell CCP devs how to code, they have hundreds of man-years of experience. They know perfectly well how to code a decent forums, they just choose not to. :) -- :(
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 15:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Zor Chayne Originally by: CCP Mitnal I believe the system is that once you log in you are assigned to a certain box on the server, the forum server is spread over more than one box. What can happen is during session changes or any activity on the forums you can be moved from box to box, in which case you're effectively logged out and can lose your post (unless you copy it/ctrl x/ctrl v). Thankfully it is much rarer now than in the past and my incredibly un-technological explanation is not the most comprehensive (or accurate) but explains the essence of the problem. hahha, oh god don't admit something like that. These forums - considering their level of public visibility and popularity - are insanely poor. The only reason I can see for not switching to another forums platform is the stubbornness of your coders, or some kind of denial about how good they are at coding forums (hint: not good). Case in point, remember when the goons spammed the forums and the code got so confused that the stickies were falling off the front page? Yeah. Quite. This. There are open source, free, downloadable forum platforms that are better than the current ones in every way. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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