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Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:25:00 - [1] This is a quote from Dr Slurm :- "Anybody, ANYBODY whose first post in the market discussion forum asks for money absolutely deserves to be ignored. This is not a question in my mind." About as singularly a stupid statement that I've read in these forums. Im currently making 500m a week which will rapidly rise to a billion a week. I will soon be in the same position as many of you are in looking for somewhere to invest my spare isk. My position as somebody ASKING for money will only be true in the short term while I 'get back on my feet' Once I do have a few spare Billion I will start offering ENTIRELY UNSECURED LOANS and I will be particularly interested in offering these loans to people WHO HAVE NEVER POSTED HERE BEFORE So.......will I get scammed? sure So ...... will I get robbed? sure Will I have lot's of fun? you damn right I will The title of this post refers to a British TV programme where wannabe entrepreneurs 'pitch' for investment before a panel 5 multimillionaire business people. So 1st I need 4 like minded individuals who are prepared to invite and seriously consider investment propositions or loan requests from complete 'noobs' I'll be willing to throw 2 billion in the pot and with 4 more like-minded individuals that will make a starting fund of 10 billion Obviously we would have to make a set of basic rules and then we could get the thing up and running. It is fair to say that the vast majority of the 'wannabees' in the TV show get 'sent packing' with their tails between their legs and without any funding. Probably the same will happen to most who make a 'pitch' for funding from Eve Onlines very own Dragons Den. There will be some serious 'due diligence' work needing doing here. So who's up for being a Dragon?
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:32:00 - [2] And what exactly is so absurd about my statement? Nothing. A fool and his ISK are soon parted. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:43:00 - [3] Give me a few minutes to get one of my alts ready so I can apply for a bill or two ISK when you start this up. I guarantee you that you will never find out it is me but that I will be able to convince you to give me money. So I really do hope you get this up and running. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Dr Slurm Edited by: Dr Slurm on 26/01/2008 07:40:06 And what exactly is so absurd about my statement? Nothing. A fool and his ISK are soon parted. //edit: I should note that you offer nothing to refute my claim. You merely jump to your own assertions. BTW would this be the same British TV show that disregarded the plan for a flying toy that now holds a multi-million dollar contract with the Department of Defense contract from the American government? Yea, I think so.. you don't do 'fun' do you Dr ?
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Mtber Originally by: Dr Slurm Edited by: Dr Slurm on 26/01/2008 07:40:06 And what exactly is so absurd about my statement? Nothing. A fool and his ISK are soon parted. //edit: I should note that you offer nothing to refute my claim. You merely jump to your own assertions. BTW would this be the same British TV show that disregarded the plan for a flying toy that now holds a multi-million dollar contract with the Department of Defense contract from the American government? Yea, I think so.. you don't do 'fun' do you Dr ? You don't seem to understand how important this is. It is the internet after all. I don't see what is "fun" about your post. In fact its outright stupid and I hope Shadarle somehow parts you and any other fool of his isk. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Mtber Once I do have a few spare Billion I will start offering ENTIRELY UNSECURED LOANS and I will be particularly interested in offering these loans to people WHO HAVE NEVER POSTED HERE BEFORE As someone who has given loans with zero collateral to people with limited posting history on MD I would like to say that it is possible to do and turn a profit at but that I have zero confidence in your ability to do it. By the way, you aren't half the businessman Dr Slurm is and he is generally correct in asserting, "Anybody, ANYBODY whose first post in the market discussion forum asks for money absolutely deserves to be ignored. This is not a question in my mind." There are exceptions to every rule but that's not a bad one to live by. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 08:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Mtber Once I do have a few spare Billion I will start offering ENTIRELY UNSECURED LOANS and I will be particularly interested in offering these loans to people WHO HAVE NEVER POSTED HERE BEFORE As someone who has given loans with zero collateral to people with limited posting history on MD I would like to say that it is possible to do and turn a profit at but that I have zero confidence in your ability to do it. By the way, you aren't half the businessman Dr Slurm is and he is generally correct in asserting, "Anybody, ANYBODY whose first post in the market discussion forum asks for money absolutely deserves to be ignored. This is not a question in my mind." There are exceptions to every rule but that's not a bad one to live by. As much as I like support in my opinions I don't know you and you certainly don't know me. Please don't stick up for me. You have absolutely no sense of my business sense. I really don't need you down playing it with false bravado. That came out snarkier then I wanted it to, but I can't think of any other way to word it. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Kushion Anti Sweden Defense Force	Posted - 2008.01.26 08:16:00 - [8] eh... what's to stop me from creating a new alt every day and cooking up some story to part you from your isk? While on one hand I admire your intentions, I can't say I think you put much actual thought into this...
Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 08:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Dr Slurm Edited by: Dr Slurm on 26/01/2008 07:40:06 And what exactly is so absurd about my statement? I simply believe that any proposition or request should be considered on its merits period. You appear to believe that any proposition that constitutes the proposers 1st post in these forums automatically has no merit. It's just an intellectually bereft argument.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.01.26 08:46:00 - [10] Actually, i think its wrong to say that Dr Slurm's statement is stupid. But i know a few guys who wants loans. Care to give them a loan?
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 08:56:00 - [11] Edited by: Dr Slurm on 26/01/2008 08:57:59 Edited by: Dr Slurm on 26/01/2008 08:57:20 Originally by: Mtber Originally by: Dr Slurm Edited by: Dr Slurm on 26/01/2008 07:40:06 And what exactly is so absurd about my statement? I simply believe that any proposition or request should be considered on its merits period. You appear to believe that any proposition that constitutes the proposers 1st post in these forums automatically has no merit. It's just an intellectually bereft argument. In fact that statement is based on intelligence. I am merely supposing that any first post in market discussion asking for money has no merit. It means exactly this: The person did not previously care about or contribute to the Market Discussions Community. The ONLY reason they posted was for money. Thus is why they should be ignored. Just like I ignored you when you held your grubby little hand out. ps. learn how to quote. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:00:00 - [12] "I don't see what is "fun" about your post. In fact its outright stupid and I hope Shadarle somehow parts you and any other fool of his isk." Hmm a lot of 'fools' got scammed out of 43billion So far I've been scammed once in my eve playing time and that was for 100m and depended on Eves inimitably rubbish gameplay mechanics to succeed. This wasn't the case with Riethes scam. I am of course making an important point here which you seem to be missing. This whole thread is about 'due diligence'. The whole POINT of a Dragons Den is that it would be a battle, at least initially, between scammers and those performing the due diligence. If all applications were rejected for the 1st few weeks or so eventually the career scammers would get bored and move on. I personally would be entirely indifferent to losing isk in this way if I felt that overall something good was being achieved. Obviously one would like to see some genuine applicants and once the Shadarles of this world have had their fun hopefully the majority of the applicants would be genuine. This of course would depend on where and how widely the plan could be advertised.
Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:04:00 - [13] Originally by: LaVista Vista Actually, i think its wrong to say that Dr Slurm's statement is stupid. But i know a few guys who wants loans. Care to give them a loan? The only time I've encountered you ingame was when you were defending Elora Narst. Enough said
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Mtber "I don't see what is "fun" about your post. In fact its outright stupid and I hope Shadarle somehow parts you and any other fool of his isk." Hmm a lot of 'fools' got scammed out of 43billion So far I've been scammed once in my eve playing time and that was for 100m and depended on Eves inimitably rubbish gameplay mechanics to succeed. This wasn't the case with Riethes scam. I am of course making an important point here which you seem to be missing. This whole thread is about 'due diligence'. No this thread is about trying to troll my opinion your other thread may have been trying to make that point. Quote: The whole POINT of a Dragons Den is that it would be a battle, at least initially, between scammers and those performing the due diligence. If all applications were rejected for the 1st few weeks or so eventually the career scammers would get bored and move on. You are very, very, very, very, very naive. Quote: I personally would be entirely indifferent to losing isk in this way if I felt that overall something good was being achieved. I'm sure Shadarle's alts will do something very good with it. He only needs to convince you of it at this point. Quote: Obviously one would like to see some genuine applicants and once the Shadarles of this world have had their fun hopefully the majority of the applicants would be genuine. This of course would depend on where and how widely the plan could be advertised. Youth and inexperience are no match for old age and treachery. It would be best if you remembered that. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Mtber Originally by: LaVista Vista Actually, i think its wrong to say that Dr Slurm's statement is stupid. But i know a few guys who wants loans. Care to give them a loan? The only time I've encountered you ingame was when you were defending Elora Narst. Enough said I've never encountered you ingame, does that make you a nobody or a never was? It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:17:00 - [16] What you seem to be saying is that you will do exactly what is already done on these forums. i.e. someone will apply for cash, be questioned by the 'dragons' and then either they get the cash or they wont. I don't see how this differs from the current situation. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Mtber Originally by: LaVista Vista Actually, i think its wrong to say that Dr Slurm's statement is stupid. But i know a few guys who wants loans. Care to give them a loan? The only time I've encountered you ingame was when you were defending Elora Narst. Enough said You're an exclamation mark who's first action in MD was to launch an utterly failed IPO. Now you're bitter and I get that but this absurd plan isn't going to change that and it certainly doesn't give you the right to go around insulting and belittling the established and trusted members of MD. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Yiasa KronDair	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:27:00 - [18] hmn well, my first post was to start my bond off =) and I didn't screw anybody over + made a nice return for my investor... So the rule does not always need to apply =). I did read the forums dough before just didn't care to post. I think that quite allot of people are around that are that way.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Yiasa hmn well, my first post was to start my bond off =) and I didn't screw anybody over + made a nice return for my investor... So the rule does not always need to apply =). That does not mean you merited investment. It only means your price for corruption was not met(yet). Quote: I did read the forums dough before just didn't care to post. I think that quite allot of people are around that are that way. You sure didn't mind not posting until you wanted something. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Dr Slurm In fact that statement is based on intelligence. I am merely supposing that any first post in market discussion asking for money has no merit. It means exactly this: The person did not previously care about or contribute to the Market Discussions Community. The ONLY reason they posted was for money. Thus is why they should be ignored. Just like I ignored you when you held your grubby little hand out. It would make more sense if you said "...first post in Eve forums...". I think there is quite a lot people who never posted in MD but would get any ISK they wanted if they asked, becouse they already have some credit in Eve world or good personal contacts.
Dunpeal Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.26 20:40:00 - [21] Edited by: Dunpeal on 26/01/2008 20:40:20 Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Yiasa hmn well, my first post was to start my bond off =) and I didn't screw anybody over + made a nice return for my investor... So the rule does not always need to apply =). That does not mean you merited investment. It only means your price for corruption was not met(yet). Quote: I did read the forums dough before just didn't care to post. I think that quite allot of people are around that are that way. You sure didn't mind not posting until you wanted something. Actually i believe in reallity that would give him SOME merit, and someone that does business and has never scammed doesn't mean it wasn't just the right price for him, that is the same as stating everyone is a hypocrit merelly by stating that everyone can con for money, one could argue human beings are by nature, hypocritical, but then again every rule has it's exception, and some humans are by nature... against their own nature. My point is not to defend someone but merely to argue a phyllosophical point, and then don't we all do something because we just WANT something? I for one, barelly post at all, what causes me to post? The wanting of something, in this case to try and argue a point. My Past, my destiny... http://www.save-evetv.com/
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.01.26 21:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Mtber Originally by: LaVista Vista Actually, i think its wrong to say that Dr Slurm's statement is stupid. But i know a few guys who wants loans. Care to give them a loan? The only time I've encountered you ingame was when you were defending Elora Narst. Enough said I dont know who the hell Elora Narst is. 'Nuff said.
Kushion Anti Sweden Defense Force	Posted - 2008.01.26 22:39:00 - [23] Quote: Obviously one would like to see some genuine applicants and once the Shadarles of this world have had their fun hopefully the majority of the applicants would be genuine. I lol'd. Have you seen how many 10x(or some similar) scammers spam in jita for hours & days on end? Something tells me Shad's patience will be the least of your worried... Scammers are legion. The reason 1-day old alts don't get funding is a very good one; they have no background, and nothing at all to support their claims. Aside from the unlikeliness of it all (hi I just started playing eve today, found MD, read up on how to apply for a loan, and did it! all within 5 minutes of character creation...) anyone can do it, any time they want, as much as they want. I like how you imply that MD hasn't done a good job supplying funding to newer characters based on the merits of their claims. The recent rash of 3-month old characters creating IPOs are a good way to illustrate my point; you have a whole bunch of 3-month old characters come out of absolutely nowhere, with no references of any kind, no standings, no contract history, no security, and yet they seem to know quite a bit a bit about writing IPOs. Coincidentally, they can't figure out how to use in-eve. They were denied. Are you saying people like this should get funding? And the other newer character that got money for his IPO... he had claims, he presented them, he proved them. He got funding. The MD community does a pretty good job of screening applicants most of the time. It isn't perfect, but what is? Offering large loans to 1-day old alts with wild stories isn't helping anyone but the scammers. If your plan actually gets going, I can foresee these forums being flooded by dozens of scammers looking for easy isk...
Protheroe	Posted - 2008.01.26 22:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Ambo What you seem to be saying is that you will do exactly what is already done on these forums. i.e. someone will apply for cash, be questioned by the 'dragons' and then either they get the cash or they wont. I don't see how this differs from the current situation. Indeed. I don't think a Dragon's Den is a bad idea, but what the OP outlines already largely happens naturally whenever a new IPO is proposed. The only difference here would be making an event out of it. Maybe it would work if you could generate wider interest in the project, and possibly get the News Service to follow developments. EGSE Share/Bond Brokerage

CCP Mitnal	Posted - 2008.01.26 22:55:00 - [25] Cleaned Please remember to stay on-topic. OP, it is unwise, unless you are looking for an argument, to introduce flamebait quotes in your original post. Please do not derail your own thread by continuing personal battles. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang

Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Ambo What you seem to be saying is that you will do exactly what is already done on these forums. i.e. someone will apply for cash, be questioned by the 'dragons' and then either they get the cash or they wont. I don't see how this differs from the current situation. I like this post, it implies I am a dragon. Dragons are very cool. Especially fire-breathing ones! I agree with your analysis though. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Mtber "I don't see what is "fun" about your post. In fact its outright stupid and I hope Shadarle somehow parts you and any other fool of his isk." Hmm a lot of 'fools' got scammed out of 43billion So far I've been scammed once in my eve playing time and that was for 100m and depended on Eves inimitably rubbish gameplay mechanics to succeed. This wasn't the case with Riethes scam. I am of course making an important point here which you seem to be missing. This whole thread is about 'due diligence'. The whole POINT of a Dragons Den is that it would be a battle, at least initially, between scammers and those performing the due diligence. If all applications were rejected for the 1st few weeks or so eventually the career scammers would get bored and move on. I personally would be entirely indifferent to losing isk in this way if I felt that overall something good was being achieved. Obviously one would like to see some genuine applicants and once the Shadarles of this world have had their fun hopefully the majority of the applicants would be genuine. This of course would depend on where and how widely the plan could be advertised. Things are the way they are for a very good reason. It is unwise to ignore all that has come before you in thinking that somehow things will be different for you. You will find that the people here are angry with you because what you plan to do will only feed the scammers. This encourages them and raises the hackles of investors who become extra vigilant now that "blood is in the water". Also, being arrogant doesn't help. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
ChongSaiKei	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:28:00 - [28] despite the many negative comments, i've got to agree with the op and his idea. It seems many of you are thinking too conventionally or are just too obsessed with virtual belongings. IvT watch dragon dens and in essense i have a few things to say about it, which actually ties in with scammers or so called bad investment. Most of the dragons have too much money and are just doing the show to appear on tv and have fun judging ppl's business ideas, the money they give on the show is very little, just 10-20 thousand if im not mistaken. Not all business turns out to be profitable. there are some who had amazing pitches and had this sense of guranteed success but still managed to lose the whole investment. (like case of scammers)but there are a few who did very well too. But the entire purpose of the show is to help ppl who had workable ideas but require some financial support. whether they succeed to be profitable is another story, but in this very process a means of entertainment is created, ie show is broadcasted, and the public like me is going to watch it. (so just treat it as a show, let the OP run it and just watch if you want. I;m sure there are a lot more, who enjoys watching dragon den, will find this interesting too, ppl like me of cos.) So back to topic, OP give me a month or two and i shall have enough isk to partipate. would be an honor to be 1 of the dragons. do evemail me if you're willing to let me in. cheers
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.27 14:36:00 - [29] Edited by: Astorothe on 27/01/2008 14:39:02 Edited reason: spelling/grammar This would have come across better had you just announced you were setting up a fund to invest in new projects and not started with a personal attack. I disagree with your basic premise and my reason is that in Eve you need to take unusual precautions before investing because of the medium (internet). The flaws of doing "business" in Eve and the reasons why MD-regulars have our ways of vetting is there not just because one member said so, but from learning the hard way and experience. Good luck though - your heart is in the right place, but I think you're going to lose a lot of ISK if you run with this as it is. There are a lot of people who will take advantage of your philanthropy. Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Mtber Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:18:00 - [30] I've decided to abandon this idea. That of course doesn't stop anybody else from picking it up and running with it

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