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Blackbird - Off The Assembly Line

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Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.01.27 02:54:00 - [1] PLEASE READ THE REQUIREMENTS BEFORE POSTING! CLICK THE SIG TO DISCUSS OTAL PHILOSOPHY! I am an industrialist working on off-the-assembly-line (OTAL) configurations for T1 PvP cruisers and would like a to solicit some opinions regarding the Blackbird. The objective is an inexpensive yet effective setup that can be quickly produced from T1 blueprints. I try my best to play to the bonuses of a particular ship, and fit it the way it was "intended" to be fit. Requirements: 1: Can be manufactured entirely from T1 BPs!!!!! 2: Can be flown by a typical 5m SP Caldari pilot. 3: As effective as can be (For a Meta 0 ship) 4: Cap must hold out for a full 2 minutes of combat 5: Config must be feasible in terms of CPU and Grid Current Config: THIS WILL CHANGE AS THE THREAD PROGRESSES Highs: 3 x Heavy Missile Launcher I 1 x 200mm Rail Mids: 1 x 10mn MWD I 5 x ECM - Multispec I Cargo Hold: 2 x of each Racial ECM Lows: 2 x Signal Distortion Amp I The blackbird is one of those ships that practically fit's itself. Fill the mids with ECM, put launchers up top, and accentuate the bonuses with the lows. In my first config, I start out a little aggressive. All of the lows/mids are filled with ECM with the exception of the MWD. Up top I do 3 launcher and a 200mm railgun. The tank is nonexistant. It seems pointless to throw a 400mm plate on this thing. The one thing that I may do differently with this OTAL ship is to fit it with multi's, and leave 2 of each racial in the cargohold for the pilot to fit/use (I'll simply give only one type of missile ammo with the least material hungry missile). So, should I actually try to put a tank on this thing? Should something different be done with the top slots, especially the one without a missile hard point? Once again, I am looking forward to hearing your opinions. Lithia Tsanov What is an OTAL?
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:00:00 - [2] I'd personally go 3x ASM for anti-frigate screening. 3 unbonused heavies won't do much, esp. with an all low skill T1 fit, so 3x ASMs will do comparatively more in their given field. MWD would be optional, I think, based on whether its in 0.0 or not. Without fear of bubbles, the blackbird could get away without one by simply warping into the fight at long range to begin with. Still not a bad idea to have one on hand though. Going with ASMs gives you the grid to get at least an 800mm plate on it, maybe even 1600mm depending on the skills. That last high can pretty well be ignored. A medium neut perhaps, or a salvager for after-combat. One 200mm rail will both do very little damage, have poor tracking for frigates tackling you, and not have the range to match your ECM.
Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:06:00 - [3] Originally by: MalVortex I'd personally go 3x ASM for anti-frigate screening. ASM meaning small assault missile launcher? Then sub one of the amps for "as big a plate as you can shoe-horn in"? Props on the salvager idea. Nobody ever seems to have one handy in gangs. The only problem is that you're usually salvaging Blackbird Wrecks. LT What is an OTAL?
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:14:00 - [4] Yep, you got it. ASM, the cruiser sized light launchers. Much easier to fit, not that much worse dps, and they'll help protect against tackling. Drop an amp and go for the biggest plate the pilot can fit. With lowish skills one amp won't make much of a difference either way, but an extra jam cycle on 5 or 6 jammers just well may. And yea. Blackbirds are carrion birds it seems
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:22:00 - [5] TBH that railgun is never going to get used, you might want to replace it with a smartbomb. The biggest threat to a BB is going to be drones, as if they're already out then jamming the enemy won't stop them. However drones tend to get recalled quickly if they start taking damage (aspecially if the damage seems to be coming from SBs, and even moreso now that shields don't insta-recharge) Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/01/2008 03:39:29 Blackbird - Bait style 3x Assault Launcher I, Salvager I LSE I, LSB I, SBA I, 2x Ivuln I, Med Cap Booster I DC I, PDU I Tanks about 200 DPS... replacing with T2 gear gets a truly ridiculous tank for a cruiser. -Liang Ed: Feel free to replace the LSE with a multispec or racial if you're bringing along a gaggle of these. ;-) -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.27 03:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Cambarus TBH that railgun is never going to get used, you might want to replace it with a smartbomb. The biggest threat to a BB is going to be drones, as if they're already out then jamming the enemy won't stop them. However drones tend to get recalled quickly if they start taking damage (aspecially if the damage seems to be coming from SBs, and even moreso now that shields don't insta-recharge) Last time I flew a Blackbird with SB's, the SB's really didn't do all that much against the drones before I got popped. If I'm remembering correctly I had either a 800 or 1600mm rolled tungston plate on the thing. With unbonused resists, if you're taking 200dps an extra 4000hp is an extra 20 seconds of life (though in all likelyhood you're going to get called primary and take more dps then that). My suggestion, forget trying to tank damage. Concentrate on speed and the ability to get outside the other guys range. Dal Originally by: HEXXX In all seriousness; I think I made a miscalculation originally. . . We either need to fix this or fix our advertising.
Burukt Vri'ra Locus Industries	Posted - 2008.01.27 07:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Burukt Vri''ra on 27/01/2008 07:38:03 This may be a stupid question, but.. why an MWD? The BB generally has no reason to go fast, and that's eating a midslot that could be used for another jammer, a sensor booster, or heaven forbid an ECCM. Also, that's a plate AND and an MWD, a bit counter-intuitive. That and the dropping of the MWD might let you squeeze on a bigger plate, or a shield extender. EDIT I r speel gud ----------------- What? I just work here.
RnProphet The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.27 07:56:00 - [9] With that many multispecs your bb is going to cap out in short order, 'specialy with the mwd nerfing the cap. Try a medium cap booster with 800's in in maybe?
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:01:00 - [10] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 27/01/2008 09:01:42 Two words for you: NAMED ECM. Use it. Flying a Blackbird with basic T1 jammers is a complete waste. While not as much of a waste as your other ships (especially the Celestis) due to ECM lacking a stacking penalty, you're still going to have horrible jam chances. While best-named ECM is horribly expensive, the mid-range ECM is still reasonable, especially if you go with racials. Just to highlight this point: with 2x T1 SDAs, your ship has a lower jam strength than a Blackbird with best-named ECM and ZERO SDAs. Jam chance is about 40% vs. 50% against cruisers, 25% vs 35% against battleships, per jammer. While this might not seem like a lot, with 5x jammers active it really adds up, especially when you consider that your newbies will not be flying EFT characters with level V in the ECM strength skill or Cruiser V. That said, you still have two major problems, if you insist on this foolish little crusade of yours: 1) You need to fit racial ECM, not multispectrals. Your jam chances are already going to suck enough with basic T1 jammers and low skills, so the low base strength of multispectrals isn't going to help anything. At least with racials, you can compensate for the poor skills/equipment to some degree. 2) The plate is a complete waste. A basic T1 800mm plate on a Blackbird adds essentially nothing to your survival time under anything but the lightest fire, and it costs you a huge price in ECM strength. Drop it and fit another SDA. Originally by: Burukt Vri'ra Edited by: Burukt Vri''ra on 27/01/2008 07:38:03 This may be a stupid question, but.. why an MWD? The BB generally has no reason to go fast, and that's eating a midslot that could be used for another jammer, a sensor booster, or heaven forbid an ECCM. Also, that's a plate AND and an MWD, a bit counter-intuitive. That and the dropping of the MWD might let you squeeze on a bigger plate, or a shield extender. MWDs are mandatory on all PvP ships. The Blackbird is a PvP ship. Simple enough?
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Merin Ryskin MWDs are mandatory on all PvP ships. The Blackbird is a PvP ship. Simple enough? Not in empire, really.
velmistr Ecco Caldari InNova Tech Inc Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: Merin Ryskin MWDs are mandatory on all PvP ships. The Blackbird is a PvP ship. Simple enough? Not in empire, really. If BoB member talks about PvP it is always 0.0 - either fleet or moderate gang ;-) OP: I would stick to 3x assault missile launchers, medium remote armor repper, mwd, 4-5x ecm, 0-1 eccm, 2x sda
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:47:00 - [13] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/01/2008 19:48:08 Originally by: Lithia Tsanov Current Config: THIS WILL CHANGE AS THE THREAD PROGRESSES Highs: 3 x Assault Missile Launcher I 1 x Salvager I Mids: 1 x 10mn MWD I 5 x ECM - Multispec I Lows: 1 x Signal Distortion Amp I 1 x 800mm Steel Plate Cargo Hold: 2 x of each Racial ECM This is a very reasonable fit. A few suggestions for the FC: - Make sure everyone understands what and how to cycle jam - Make sure everyone calls out when they score a jam on someone so others don't waste ECM on them - Make sure everyone calls out BEFORE someone becomes unjammed so that people can go for the cycle jam You might want to put a good ECM person in charge of the wing of these guys and stuff them in their own vent channel. It can get noisy, but make sure discipline over coms is maintained. -Liang Ed: I might consider dropping the 800 plate for another SDA as the gang size goes up. Also, consider pre-fitting out some of the ships with common racials as gang size goes up. -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Selia Rain	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:00:00 - [14] I'm going to have to say that meta ECM would have to be imported to your 0.0 manufacturing location, where T1 would not, and thus, a total T1 fit, as opposed to the hassle of importing mass quantities of low meta modules. I will however agree with the racial point. You get much better jam strength with racials, and you can usually count on any given gang featuring a gallente/minmatar ship or two, so at least those two racials would be a great thing to issue with the ship(along with multis, of course). Teach your pilots to match colors to target ships and you win!
Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:30:00 - [15] I am ashamed to say this.. When I have multiple ECM boats in a gang... I just have them target the largest ship whose characters has the closest beginning letter of their names as my ECM pilot. So .... Nubtard jams Mugen... ArrowKiller jams Adelphi etc. It was the simplest and most brain dead way of telling pilots who to jam, though not nearly as effective as having their own WCommander. Same kinda goes for drone assignment on gate camps. M and below assign their drones to interceptor A, N and above to interceptor B. Then again, I'm not a particularly good FC. I've met and served under far worse though. LT What is an OTAL?
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Lithia Tsanov Then again, I'm not a particularly good FC. I've met and served under far worse though. We've got some really good FC's in Avalon (I'm one of them, though probably not "really good")... I guess I just get spoiled. -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^

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