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Myadra
Amarr
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.01.28 10:39:00 -
[1]
Was thinking tonight over some things, basically how to make ISK out of thin air and how many ways are left to do that in Eve universe, Investing in t2 bpo isnt viable anymore, invention is too much work & very competitive. So I thought, what do people use alot of now, Datacores, and how much do some cost? 1mil per? it actually costs more money and time to invent things than to buy realistically... seen Retributions for 5mil on market, and they use 3.6mil in components.
== the crazy idea... ==
So i thought, of this... shell out some isk in time codes.
Get 3 X 14 day trial accounts (then pay the one time fee each to make full which includes 30 extra days)
each account has 3 character slots, 1st make a basic character with research/science/lab op. train the research project managment skill and skill for research field, on all 3 accounts at same time.
Aprox 45 days or so each character I think if made right + +3's..
in mean time, using your main account with all 3 alts logged in & in gang and in space, while you do lvl4 missions for the corp you want these alts on. and able to get them to best research agents in a few days.
by time their at top lvl4 research agents, they'll have research project management 4, and get 5 research agents each. at 50-70 rp a day each.
rinse and repeat, till you got 3 slots on each account with 5 research agents farming RP , then put the accounts to sleep for 3 months. so its actually profitable
175mil x 3 accts for each 30 days = 425m..you could just do this every 3 months?
9 characters farming RP, = 60-80 rp a day each agent
x 3 characters x 3 accounts = 720 rp a day
50 RP for 1 datacore = 1mil
= 21,600 RP month = 432 datacores x 3 months = 1296 datacores
about 1.3bil every 3 months in datacores, and you just pay isk for time codes every 3-4 months. so your not making 1bil nearly every 3 months for buying 3 time codes and claiming the cores.
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In retrospect, maybe this is a crazy idea, now if you did this same thing for just 1 account, sacrificing your mains skilling, and got all 3 slots on your 1 account to lvl4 research agents, while a friend helps you get them for the research corp or you do those cosmos agent thing to get it faster, it basically pays the isk for a time code, and you get it free? but sacrifice 45 days x 2.. and on your main.
and get : 6300 rp aprox a month = 126 datacores = about 130-140m
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In closing, I just got research agents on one character and will keep it that way & tinker with invention (barely worth it for most things), just was trying to think of ways to make isk out of thin air.. trading (markets,escrow) and building things in desolate regions, selling bpcs of t1 stuff (bs & cruiser bpc sets) (make about 10-12% per month of investments of t1 ship bpos) is what I'll stick to. & seems most profitable for me.
Any thoughts or input..?
-Banner coming-
Back from long break
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Feyloan
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Posted - 2008.01.28 10:48:00 -
[2]
I believe your figures to be completely wrong, also you point out at one point 50-70rp per agent, on another 60-80rp per agent:
9 Chars, each with 5 Agents = 5 * 9 * 60-80 = 2700 rp - 3600 rp per day total...
You also wildly overestimate the DC price IMHO, they have collapsed as of late, let's take 500K as the price.
Bottom line = 81,000 rp - 108,000 rp per 30 day month
this equals 1620 - 2160 Datacores a month, so 810 mil - 1080 mil (with 1 mill of course double, your choice).
Regards,
Feyloan
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Feyloan
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Posted - 2008.01.28 10:49:00 -
[3]
P.S.: Read here for someone already doing this 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.28 10:54:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Myadra
Any thoughts or input..?
Yeah, you're half a year too late 
1|2|3|4|5. |
Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.28 10:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Feyloan
P.S.: Read here for someone already doing this
It's being done as an IPO but nothing stopping this being done for yourself (and those two extra char spots we have on our accounts)
Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
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Myadra
Amarr
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.01.28 11:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Feyloan
P.S.: Read here for someone already doing this
Interesting, guess someone else put a lot more time and thought into it than me already, (as with most crazy idea's i come up with lol), and he/she actually has math skills.. thanks for correcting the math btw, always used to fail it in school, anyway seems like a lot of work to get little back, I'll keep dreaming up other crazy pipe dreams to make isk.. ;)
-Banner coming-
Back from long break
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.28 11:03:00 -
[7]
As a public venture, it's already being done and struggling thanks to plummeting datacore prices. The profit margins are not high enough to justify another corporation going into it. However, there's nothing stopping you from doing it with your own account though I find my time is much more profitably spent.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.28 11:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Myadra
Interesting, guess someone else put a lot more time and thought into it than me already, (as with most crazy idea's i come up with lol), and he/she actually has math skills.. thanks for correcting the math btw, always used to fail it in school, anyway seems like a lot of work to get little back, I'll keep dreaming up other crazy pipe dreams to make isk.. ;)
I wouldn't worry about the math too much, that's why we have calculators and excel. Personally I'm pretty solid when it comes to calculus but fail pretty often with the arithmetic.
As far as crazy ideas go, eventually you'll get one that actually works and hasn't been done and then get filthy rich. At least assuming EVE continues to grow and diversify, it's feeling a little stagnant on the economic end these days...but that's for the other thread I just posted in.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Feyloan
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Posted - 2008.01.28 11:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Myadra
Interesting, guess someone else put a lot more time and thought into it than me already, (as with most crazy idea's i come up with lol), and he/she actually has math skills.. thanks for correcting the math btw, always used to fail it in school, anyway seems like a lot of work to get little back, I'll keep dreaming up other crazy pipe dreams to make isk.. ;)
Crazy Ideas are always good, and people who are interested in them can always be found here to invest in such ideas if they trust you. Also, apologies for that "are completely wrong" part in my post, was a little too direct and mean tbh. 
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.01.28 14:29:00 -
[10]
Welcome to the has-been good idea of yesteryear.
_______________________________
I need new voices in my head,
To speak my secret evils with.
I need new lovers in my bed,
To be my friends and special pets. |
cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.01.28 14:39:00 -
[11]
I thought it was a good idea about 6 months ago. It took my 2 months of training and missioning with the right corp's to get my standings up.
I thought it would be a good way to play for free!!!
I produce 190 ME datacores a month, which USED to pay for a GTC but not now. Only worth about 60 mill at the moment.
If anything I think the situation will get MUCH worse. Matalino's venture is not even at full datacore production (according to his IPO schedule), and when it does reach that point he could be flooding the market with more cores.
In the end I think that IPO will be a lot of work for very little reward. The shareholders would probably of been better not investing as the returns will be higher elsewhere, and their own datacore production more profitable.
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.28 17:12:00 -
[12]
Dedicated research accounts are quickly losing viablity. It will take you years to recover your original investment, if you ever recover it at all.
As it is, I will be making an announcement in about a week and a half to give an overview of what I plan to do to minimize the loses for my investors, to recover as much of their original investment as possible, as I no longer believe that our original target return is reachable.
Of course you can proceed with your idea if you wish, but I will tell you honestly that it is not worth it.
You can make a little extra ISK on the side by collecting DC's with your main, but it is not worth training up alts on additional accounts.
(To my investors, the official announcement and status update will be released Feb 8 or possibly a little sooner. I am delaying the announcement until I can liquidate as many assets and finalize as many details as possible.)
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.28 21:34:00 -
[13]
Datacores have dropped in price far too much for that to be viable anymore.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Drab Cane
Caldari
Mining Emporium inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.28 22:25:00 -
[14]
Within the last week or so, DC - Rocket Science have doubled in price in Jita.
I wonder if Matalino's exit from the datacore farming biz is the cause, or if someone else is manipulating the market. Someone bought up all my stock in a neighboring region, and then I noticed the price increase.
Hmm, I'll have to check if those purchases happened before or after the price change . . .
- Who Dares, Wins |
Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.28 22:50:00 -
[15]
It's people putting into practice the idea that in theory all the datacore prices should equalize over time.
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Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.29 05:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Matalino
Dedicated research accounts are quickly losing viablity. It will take you years to recover your original investment, if you ever recover it at all.
As it is, I will be making an announcement in about a week and a half to give an overview of what I plan to do to minimize the loses for my investors, to recover as much of their original investment as possible, as I no longer believe that our original target return is reachable.
Of course you can proceed with your idea if you wish, but I will tell you honestly that it is not worth it.
You can make a little extra ISK on the side by collecting DC's with your main, but it is not worth training up alts on additional accounts.
(To my investors, the official announcement and status update will be released Feb 8 or possibly a little sooner. I am delaying the announcement until I can liquidate as many assets and finalize as many details as possible.)
... This... I don't know what the **** to say. This was my first and likely my LAST investment venture. I researched it out i saw someone who made things work and kept it completely above board even in the worst messes. And in the end i still get the shaft up the ass. That was 72 million i could of invested in a ship i actually could of used. Or put towards a long term ship investment... For someone with not all that much SP or luck in rare items thats a pretty large amount of money. I didnt need this news. There are not enough curses in the combined languages of man to express my frustration. Matalino you i trust. Investments on the other hand. I think this Forum and this subject should be DISSOLVED. -.-
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.29 06:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Matalino on 29/01/2008 06:11:09
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
... This... I don't know what the **** to say. This was my first and likely my LAST investment venture. I researched it out i saw someone who made things work and kept it completely above board even in the worst messes. And in the end i still get the shaft up the ass. That was 72 million i could of invested in a ship i actually could of used. Or put towards a long term ship investment... For someone with not all that much SP or luck in rare items thats a pretty large amount of money. I didnt need this news. There are not enough curses in the combined languages of man to express my frustration. Matalino you i trust. Investments on the other hand. I think this Forum and this subject should be DISSOLVED. -.-
Please be patient and wait until all of the details are finalized. I will still be doing my best to see everything through as best as I can. While our choice of market may be failing, it is still far to soon to say that your choice of CEO has failed.
I would ask for a bit more patience so that I can provide an accurate accounting of where we stand. As I said in my post, I will be providing a more detailed report by Feb 8.
Unlike with the recent conclusion of petition issue, the date that I have set for that announcement is only dependant upon myself, so the announcement will be made on or before Feb 8.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.29 06:41:00 -
[18]
Never invest more than you can afford to lose. If 78m was a lot to you you shouldn't have been putting it into someone else's hands. Not to mention that investing in public companies and bonds really isn't advisable to people at that level of ISK. You get far more return investing it into yourself. If you had say invested it in a ship for mission running you would have made far far more than in any public investment.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.29 07:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
... This... I don't know what the **** to say. This was my first and likely my LAST investment venture. I researched it out i saw someone who made things work and kept it completely above board even in the worst messes. And in the end i still get the shaft up the ass. That was 72 million i could of invested in a ship i actually could of used. Or put towards a long term ship investment... For someone with not all that much SP or luck in rare items thats a pretty large amount of money. I didnt need this news. There are not enough curses in the combined languages of man to express my frustration. Matalino you i trust. Investments on the other hand. I think this Forum and this subject should be DISSOLVED. -.-
If you have so little money then I have to wonder what would have been a good outcome for you. Would an 8% return of about 5 million isk per month really have been useful in any way? I'd imagine anything else you did with that 72 mil would have returned far more profit.
Investing is for people who have no other use for their money that would yield a better profit.
Not to mention you chose to invest in a very high risk investment. Perhaps you didn't realize it was high risk, but that was your own fault. You'll notice some of us stayed far away from investing in it. I desperately wanted to invest in something but I always held back on it because I was not confident DC prices would stay high. You chose to invest despite the risk. You have no one to blame but yourself. If you didn't have 72 million to lose you shouldn't have invested 72 million. You should be prepared to lose 100% of your investment every time you invest, if you aren't then don't do it.
Perhaps it's good it will be your last investment, the market community here is for serious people with strong opinions and the nerves to invest in risky operations.
Frankly I think a minimum investment amount is a good idea for IPO's. Personally I think 1 billion should be the bare minimum, just to save people from themselves so the rest of us don't have to read whine posts if things don't work out perfectly.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Ahn Riane
Blue Star Surveying and Mapping
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.29 08:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Frankly I think a minimum investment amount is a good idea for IPO's. Personally I think 1 billion should be the bare minimum, just to save people from themselves so the rest of us don't have to read whine posts if things don't work out perfectly.
This is not a good idea.
 There are a lot of small scale investment opportunities out there. Public availability means small scale investors in that case.
I like whine post, they are so entertaining.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.01.29 13:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
... This... I don't know what the **** to say. This was my first and likely my LAST investment venture. I researched it out i saw someone who made things work and kept it completely above board even in the worst messes. And in the end i still get the shaft up the ass. That was 72 million i could of invested in a ship i actually could of used. Or put towards a long term ship investment... For someone with not all that much SP or luck in rare items thats a pretty large amount of money. I didnt need this news. There are not enough curses in the combined languages of man to express my frustration. Matalino you i trust. Investments on the other hand. I think this Forum and this subject should be DISSOLVED. -.-
I lol'd.
Talk about your over-reacting.
Personally I think you would have been far better off investing in that ship you were talking about. Spending all your ISK in an investment, especially one where you would have been far far far better of spending it on yourself, was quite a silly thing to do. That's a very minimal amount of ISK to be investing... I can't see how it would benefit you at all to toss it all into something you'd get a minimal return on. [DATAC] was hardly going to make you a billionaire out of 78m. If you'd dropped that into a nice L3 mission ship you could well have a cool bil by now, however and be running L4s and making even more, for example. Some of us have the ISK to spare in taking risks in investments. Some of us invested 10x more than you or even more, and you don't see anyone else freaking out about it. I don't think anyone else is silly enough to spend everything they have into one of these ventures, though. You certainly shouldn't have.
You need to be smart with your ISK and weigh the pros and cons before going into something like this. Hopefully you learned something.
_______________________________
I need new voices in my head,
To speak my secret evils with.
I need new lovers in my bed,
To be my friends and special pets. |
bolo solow
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Posted - 2008.01.29 16:58:00 -
[22]
Switch your guys out of ME and into Nanite engineering. Those cores are much more stable in price and generally over 900K to 1 mil and have been for quite some time. Molecular engineering cores are also rising and over 800K in general. If your R&D alts have versatility built in, they can switch into and out of agents as needed as the market changes.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.29 17:10:00 -
[23]
At this point in time I'd say it's crazy to get into. Many months ago would have been ok.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.29 17:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: bolo solow
Switch your guys out of ME and into Nanite engineering. Those cores are much more stable in price and generally over 900K to 1 mil and have been for quite some time. Molecular engineering cores are also rising and over 800K in general. If your R&D alts have versatility built in, they can switch into and out of agents as needed as the market changes.
Not really an option for [DATAC], really.
We're talking dozens, maybe hundreds of alts that need training in skills they don't have yet, and more than likely access to new agents (since, you know, the chosen mecheng agents hardly even have the perfect blend of "other" types of valuable research).
Also, even if switching was not so much of an issue (just get L4 in the other field, hopefully already have access to a decent agent of that new field), compared to L5 in science, that's at least a 21% drop in sheer datacore volume, and will take the 30 mil ISK (so, roughly 60 core's worth) on top of a bit under two weeks to switch all three chars on one account to the new ones, then another two months to bring that science to L5 too.
For a single character, one with a multitude of skills (especially if already learned and up to L4 at least), switching is easy.
For a horde of alts especially designed for this, not so much.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.29 18:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: bolo solow
Switch your guys out of ME and into Nanite engineering. Those cores are much more stable in price and generally over 900K to 1 mil and have been for quite some time. Molecular engineering cores are also rising and over 800K in general. If your R&D alts have versatility built in, they can switch into and out of agents as needed as the market changes.
I have already thought of this. DATAC characters are training up a variety of fields. But this in itself will not save the venture.
Do you seriously think that nobody else is already doing this. Nanite is the new ME. It will crash within a couple of months as everyone trains up the skill needed. Two of the best Nanite agents are also among the best Mechanical agents. The only thing needed to switch fields is skill training time.
With any luck enough people will jump on that bandwagon that ME prices will raise again as production is shifted to those other fields. 
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Myadra
Amarr
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.01.30 02:47:00 -
[26]
I myself think, datacore + markets to offload them would not be enough alone to be worth it, unless markets stay stable, but combined with:
1. Alts running research in starship + other fields to get cores needed
2. Empire research POS's (in .5) to copy cruiser BPC. to max run's (25% faster)
- theres a alliance that provides service called - Empire Research ? & get to use their lab pos's by joining alliance and dont cost much more than npc slots.
3. Invention division to use the cores + bpcs & pos invention slots (25% faster)
- Remember, ship interfaces are nearly 150m if you look right spots.. skills for encryptions are 15mil. and to get right skills to lvl4+ is few week
4. Selling of said invented t2 bpc's on escrow or some given to production dept.
5. Production of T2 recons,heavy indictors,Hac's.
Overall, I think this could "equalize" the crash of markets in datacores? since t2 ships seem to be going up in price in some fields people arent producing anymore (more going to t2 bs/command ships), and some are profitable if you find right sources for t2 components. & right ships not being supplied (by monitoring supply and demand)
Think all 3 things combined could bring a profit to a venture no matter what happens to datacore prices. or t2 ship prices. if a venture was handled and run right. its all about balance & research.
-Banner coming-
Back from long break
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