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David Fightmaster
Sony Enterprise
3
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm just curious if this a good idea or not, so I figure I'll post this topic in general discussion to see what people think about it. My idea is to use plex to buy merchandise from the EVE store like the ISK guide, tactical star charts, and many other stuff (maybe a ship model ). How to make this work, is just convert your plex into store credit on whatever the RL money value its worth which CCP is selling a plex for on their website. Plus not lose the store credits as well after I made a purchase, so my left over credit can go to another purchase in the future. I'm only thinking about this since CCP allows you to pay for fanfest events with plex instead of using RL money. So I'm asking the EVE community on their input on this before I make it proposal. Just to see if its worthwhile or not.
www.davidfightmaster.com |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1048
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yup. It is a very good idea. One I have proposed as well in the past but people don't seem too interested. To CCP, PLEX is just as good as cold hard cash. One way or another if PLEX is bought, sold or traded in any way at all, CCP still gets the money from it. Why they have not already given the option to purchase hard goods through the CCP Store is beyond me.
Come to think of it...there may be some legal issues involved. Possible tax evasion issues and whatnot. Once you buy the PLEX you are then using face game money for real life goods. At least it could be viewed that way by some courts... EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

David Fightmaster
Sony Enterprise
3
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Posted - 2012.02.13 14:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Yup. It is a very good idea. One I have proposed as well in the past but people don't seem too interested. To CCP, PLEX is just as good as cold hard cash. One way or another if PLEX is bought, sold or traded in any way at all, CCP still gets the money from it. Why they have not already given the option to purchase hard goods through the CCP Store is beyond me.
Come to think of it...there may be some legal issues involved. Possible tax evasion issues and whatnot. Once you buy the PLEX you are then using face game money for real life goods. At least it could be viewed that way by some courts...
Yeah, I didn't think about the tax issues. But I would assume it wouldn't be a problem if price of the item your purchasing has the tax already included. Thanks for your comment and input.  www.davidfightmaster.com |

Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
586
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
No |

David Fightmaster
Sony Enterprise
3
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Simple enough, thanks lol.  www.davidfightmaster.com |

Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
61
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
I wouldnt mind it tbh. +1 for the idea.
As for taxation youd already have to pay income tax in the country the cash originated in. The only thing youd be avoiding might be say sales tax but that varies by country anyway. The only real people to be losing out on the sales tax would be where the store is located physically and that can be gotten around easily as tax would simply be included in the price of the item so I dont see any tax reasons its not feasible. Import duties and fees would still apply as would shipping fees. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
465
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
I am not against the idea, but it would spike PLEX prices even higher, so I don't know about the economic wisdom of something like this. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |

Liam Mirren
255
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Posted - 2012.02.13 19:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I am not against the idea, but it would spike PLEX prices even higher, so I don't know about the economic wisdom of something like this.
Yup, I can see why people would be afraid of that. Thing is ofcourse that with plex prices going up the supply would (slowly) also increase creating a new equilibrium. I'm not a fan of CCP being money grabbers but being ale to pay the store in plex would be a sound choice.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
465
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Posted - 2012.02.13 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote: Yup, I can see why people would be afraid of that. Thing is ofcourse that with plex prices going up the supply would (slowly) also increase creating a new equilibrium. I'm not a fan of CCP being money grabbers but being ale to pay the store in plex would be a sound choice.
After the PLEX price rise we have seen during this last year, I am not very confident that plain supply/demand reasoning works on the PLEX market. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |

Liam Mirren
255
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Posted - 2012.02.13 19:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
older players are still coming back in droves "having a look", using their isk to peek into EVE again. Apart from that easy isk like incursions means people have cash. The price is high because people are willing to pay it. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
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Ai Shun
262
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Posted - 2012.02.13 19:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
I thought the CSM discussed this in the PLEX round at the last summit. Have a poke through the notes; I'm pretty sure it was in there. |

Jita Alt666
895
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Liam Mirren wrote: Yup, I can see why people would be afraid of that. Thing is ofcourse that with plex prices going up the supply would (slowly) also increase creating a new equilibrium. I'm not a fan of CCP being money grabbers but being ale to pay the store in plex would be a sound choice.
After the PLEX price rise we have seen during this last year, I am not very confident that plain supply/demand reasoning works on the PLEX market.
There is always a lag between the rise in price and the fall in demand. Think of 11th century England. A large summer storm wipes out the summer crops in August, farmers who had mastered two crop rotation managed to harvest the first but the second was lost, farmers who only did one cycle per season lost the whole schbang. With corn supply massively reduced, flour prices start to rise, as flour prices rise bread prices rise. There is small grumbling, then there is riots and starvation, as the starvation strikes deep into the peasantry and the long cold winter bites, the demand begins to drop. By the next summer equilibrium has been reached.
When the current rescission bites in deeper more people will turn to plex to keep their accounts going. As it bites deeper and they lose the ability to pay their utilities equilibrium will be reached.
Fake edit: Don't take this post seriously. |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
465
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote: There is always a lag between the rise in price and the fall in demand. Think of 11th century England. A large summer storm wipes out the summer crops in August, farmers who had mastered two crop rotation managed to harvest the first but the second was lost, farmers who only did one cycle per season lost the whole schbang. With corn supply massively reduced, flour prices start to rise, as flour prices rise bread prices rise. There is small grumbling, then there is riots and starvation, as the starvation strikes deep into the peasantry and the long cold winter bites, the demand begins to drop. By the next summer equilibrium has been reached.
When the current rescission bites in deeper more people will turn to plex to keep their accounts going. As it bites deeper and they lose the ability to pay their utilities equilibrium will be reached.
Fake edit: Don't take this post seriously.
I WILL RAGE AT YOU NOW ABOUT HOW INACCURATE YOUR ANALYSIS IS.
Nah. The only way for PLEX prices to go down is either for fewer people to buy them with ISK (not seeming likely), or for more people to buy them with $$.
That is how I justify it to myself when I get so tired of boring PvE that I just say "**** it", buy a PLEX, and lose an expensive ship. I am doing it for Eve's economy. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |

Logix42
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
22
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Posted - 2012.02.13 20:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Initially the idea might seem good but there is a flaw. The problem is it creates a legal way for isk to be converted into RL $$. This would encourage even more botters. Accelerate your particles out of my system immediately! |

Kemonia
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.02.13 20:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yes  |

Liam Mirren
255
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 20:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:Initially the idea might seem good but there is a flaw. The problem is it creates a legal way for isk to be converted into RL $$. This would encourage even more botters.
Hello sir, I would like to purchase this car with 42 quafe T-shirts, they're quite rare you know. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |

Sarmatiko
526
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 20:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:I thought the CSM discussed this in the PLEX round at the last summit. Have a poke through the notes; I'm pretty sure it was in there. ^this OP please read minutes before you will discover your next "new and exciting" idea that "no one discussed" ever since PLEX was introduced.  |

Cipher Jones
301
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 20:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Yup. It is a very good idea. One I have proposed as well in the past but people don't seem too interested. To CCP, PLEX is just as good as cold hard cash. One way or another if PLEX is bought, sold or traded in any way at all, CCP still gets the money from it. Why they have not already given the option to purchase hard goods through the CCP Store is beyond me.
Come to think of it...there may be some legal issues involved. Possible tax evasion issues and whatnot. Once you buy the PLEX you are then using face game money for real life goods. At least it could be viewed that way by some courts...
Its an awesome idea as far as promoting botting and RMT.
I buy item.
I sell item.
I just took money out of CCP's coffers.
And also, you are correct. If you put money into a game it is a game. If you take money out it then falls under many countries' laws as a bank. Google Diablo III for more information on that.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |

Luis Graca
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 20:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
yeah right thats whats needed things to make plex's prices even higher |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
339
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 21:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes and /signed
However, bare in mind doing this would totally institutionalize RMT. The consequences of this is you can expect CCP to sell a crap-ton of merchandise, a wave of botting the likes of which we have never seen will wash over all of new eden, Russian/Chinese RMT'ers will need to radically alter their business model or go out of business, and yes PLEX will go through the roof. That might not be a bad thing though... for the game. It would be bad for me since I'm currently a PLEX player, but it would really change the landscape of MMO payment models and I think eve itself. All that said, I am supporting this simply because I would be interested to see what happens and shaking up the snowglobe now and again is fun. I'm not sure if this would net out as a good thing for the players or CCP. ...so, grain of salt yo.

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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1072
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 21:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
All the more reason for CCP to get off their ass's on the RMT and bots issue and actually do something about it to fix the problem. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

David Fightmaster
Sony Enterprise
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 20:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah, there is a lot of ramifications if CCP did allow something like this to happen. I truly would like to see how it would affect the PLEX prices. Could only imagine it would go up, but by how much? It would be a show to see I suppose . On people taking advantage over something like this with RMT, last thing I want is farmers making a profit off something like this that's only meant to help players get items for the game they like so much. Regrettably that's something that can't be really stopped .
Thanks everyone for your comments, it was very insightful for me to see the responses from other players about this idea. www.davidfightmaster.com |

Ohanka
The Lone Patrol Tactical Narcotics Team
21
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 21:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
delete plex altogether.
Pay for the game properly dimwits. |

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
428
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 22:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
It would just be a wow clone though. disorientating |

Ganagati
Perkone Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 23:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Come to think of it...there may be some legal issues involved. Possible tax evasion issues and whatnot. Once you buy the PLEX you are then using face game money for real life goods. At least it could be viewed that way by some courts...
This is a much larger issue than you think and is the reason you'll never see this come to pass.
Go look up some of the nasty hubub involved around second life and government's attempts to tax the ingame currency. If you could convert in game currency to real life currency, governments would jump all over it and cause a world of hurt for CCP and EVE players.
Farm some iskies -> buy plex -> buy t-shirt -> sell t-shirt for real monies -> profit???
Suddenly isk has a real monetary value in both directions. Right now you can go from real money -> isk, but you can't legally go from isk -> real money. If you COULD, then wouldn't isk become a taxable income? It sounds silly, I know, but honest to god there were a group of legally savvy government workers who tried to make a similar claim against another game. Proof Titans are rare (just another null battle): http://i.imgur.com/CY6x4.jpg-áBattles in EVE can look kinda silly sometimes, huh? |

Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
822
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 23:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
TL;DR - Let's bump plex up to 899 m isk a piece. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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