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Viceroy Bolloxim
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:04:00 -
[1]
Just wondered, because I hear all the PvP comments about the new ships, but something tells me that level 4 missions and some deadspace missions are about to become impossible.
bad enough torps from rats will travel 110km
please no carebear comments.. this is a serious enquiry as a lot of players do actually mission run
-bollo Digital - Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer. Fury - the property of being wild or turbulent; "the storm's violence" |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:11:00 -
[2]
That's right. Level 4 missions will now become... IMPOSSIBLE
Seriously. Claiming that any level four missions will be impossible after this is, at best, extreme hyperbole. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2 |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:11:00 -
[3]
The resistance nerf is going to take maybe one or two percentage points off the resists of mission runners who use resistance buffers. Also this hasn't been implemented yet.
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Viceroy Bolloxim
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:29:00 -
[4]
yeah, no I didnt mean all level 4s, there are a couple that are really mean because they require an omni tank, this might tip the balance on them. My alt does some mission running and that em resist change might mess up the domi on a couple..
not even sure about the deadspaces though in 0.0
I guess point I am making is that I hope this gets tested,
bollo Digital - Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer. Fury - the property of being wild or turbulent; "the storm's violence" |
Sandeep
Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:36:00 -
[5]
So as I understand, they drop resist from 60% to 50%, resulting in 20% less tank on that damage type. Realistically, after factoring damage type distributions, 15%.
So if you need to use 80% of your tank to complete a mission, i.e. 800 dps vs 1000 hp/s (after resists), you now will use 100% if you are hit entirely by that damage type.
In conclusion, shoot faster, make less mistakes, pay more attention. Doing these, I don't see any major problem doing level 4s.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:45:00 -
[6]
Lower level mission runners will actually experience the resistance nerf harder than level 3/4 runners. My Raven with four T2 active hardeners (usually two each for the main damage types being received) tops out at like 80% resists more or less, depending on which resistance they're buffing. Once the resistance nerf hits I'll hardly feel it except over the very long term in the mission. Smaller ships don't run so many hardeners, if any at all, so they may have a harder time adjusting at first. It still won't make anything "impossible" of course.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum The resistance nerf is going to take maybe one or two percentage points off the resists of mission runners who use resistance buffers. Also this hasn't been implemented yet.
For all resistances what count is not the actual % removed, but the percentage increase in damage. And that is +25% damage for Explosives on shields and +25% damage for EM on armor.
As the dev blog example explain well, the percentage change in effective damage is the same independently if you are using hardeners or not.
Quote: The Raven with shield hardeners running would be getting 79.3% Explosive resistances before the change and 74.1% after. That's effectively a 25% increase in Explosive damage taken.
The same Raven without hardeners go from 60% to 50%, with a 25% increase in effective damage taken.
Quote: The Dominix with armor hardeners running would get 80% EM resistances on armor before changes and 75% after them. That's a 25% increase in EM damage taken on armor.
Again, the same Dominix without hardeners go from 60% to 50% with an effective increase in damage taken of 25%.
An increase in 25% damage taken is not a small increase, especially in some mission.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:57:00 -
[8]
Something in the way it's worded is stopping me from comprehending something. How is there a 25% difference in damage between 80 and 75% resists?
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Sandeep
Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Something in the way it's worded is stopping me from comprehending something. How is there a 25% difference in damage between 80 and 75% resists?
100 incoming damage points on TQ today: 80% resist -> 20 dmg
100 incoming damage points on SISI today: 75% resist -> 25 dmg
(25-20) / 20 = 25% more damage
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Ishan Mons
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Something in the way it's worded is stopping me from comprehending something. How is there a 25% difference in damage between 80 and 75% resists?
80% resist means you take 20 damage for each 100 incoming... drop that to 75% and you now take 25 damage for each 100 incoming... thats an additional 5 damage 5 is 25% of 20
weren't you arguing for EM change and you didn't understand that? ------------------------ Infrared = heat = thermal Infrared crystals = less therm more EM I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS! Reach in front of a 10watt CO2 laser some time you'll get it... |
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Something in the way it's worded is stopping me from comprehending something. How is there a 25% difference in damage between 80 and 75% resists?
I hit you with 100 damage. 80% reduces it to 20. 75% reduced it to 25. the 5 extra damage is 25% more then 20 damage.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viceroy Bolloxim
bad enough torps from rats will travel 110km
Somehow, being a cruise raven user, I never really noticed how ****** up this fact is.
WTB Rat torps.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:06:00 -
[13]
I did not run a mission, but I did compare resists.
Shield tanked for all damage types, maelstrom
EM 66.7 Thrm 64 Kin 73 Expl 77.5 ( old 82 )
so for 100 damage incoming I'd take 22.5 vs 18 or a 25% increase in explosive damage.
I STILL don't see how a 25% increase to explosive damage constitutes a needed Amarr buff.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Summersnow I did not run a mission, but I did compare resists.
Shield tanked for all damage types, maelstrom
EM 66.7 Thrm 64 Kin 73 Expl 77.5 ( old 82 )
so for 100 damage incoming I'd take 22.5 vs 18 or a 25% increase in explosive damage.
I STILL don't see how a 25% increase to explosive damage constitutes a needed Amarr buff.
So did you miss the 25% increase to EM damage on armor tanks, which are by far the most popular method of tanking in PVP? ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2 |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tarminic Seriously. Claiming that any level four missions will be impossible after this is, at best, extreme hyperbole.
No, it's outright stupid.
___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:13:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/02/2008 23:14:36 ... Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/02/2008 23:14:26 ... Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Viceroy Bolloxim
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
An increase in 25% damage taken is not a small increase, especially in some mission.
my point exactly, the resistance itself seems small, but the overall DPS received in a mission will dramatically change. A lot of 4s are straightforward, but there are quite a few that are really needing skills that require t2 gear.
in the past, we've seen changes happen that effect one segment (pvp) side in 0.0 which will have dramatic PvE effects because they were not the reason for the change.
and honestly I dont know anyone that goes on TEST to rat or to PvE.
-bollo Digital - Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer. Fury - the property of being wild or turbulent; "the storm's violence" |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:39:00 -
[19]
Okay I see what you're saying. Also I haven't argued for or against resist changes in any thread.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 01/02/2008 23:44:37
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Something in the way it's worded is stopping me from comprehending something. How is there a 25% difference in damage between 80 and 75% resists?
Other have replied, and with better grace, so edit away
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:41:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 01/02/2008 23:45:55 No I don't please run that by me again
actually wait let me make this post a bit less snarky. Yes I get there will be a 25% EM increase now assuming those resists. Once you factor in the thermal damage and base damage from lasers (or just base from missiles/EMP) the overall damage increase actually amounts to less than 25% of overall, which is good (all things considered.)
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tarminic
So did you miss the 25% increase to EM damage on armor tanks, which are by far the most popular method of tanking in PVP?
Did you miss the facts that
The thread topic is about MISSION RUNNING.
I run missions in a shield tanked ship.
How exactly does your pvp setup in ANY WAY affect EITHER OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS...
For that matter, how exactly does armor tanking at all, which already has an overall 20% bonus to t1 resists, affect shield tanking, in any way?
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Eve University
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 01/02/2008 23:43:53 I just think it's funny that my passive shield Ishtar's tank against EM/Therm will be right up against that of my Dual MAR one ... and that the exp resist which is half the reason I invested in shield skills and equipment in the first place is about to get ruined. Angel DPS is almost all EXP; thanks a lot CCP!
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 01/02/2008 23:42:53 No I don't please run that by me again
actually wait let me make this post a bit less snarky. Yes I get there will be a 25% EM increase now assuming those resists. Once you factor in the thermal damage and base damage from lasers (or just base from missiles/EMP) the overall damage increase actually amounts to less than 25% of an increase overall.
Depend on the enemies, but I think about a 10-15% effective increase on the vulnerable tanks for Angels and Blood Raiders.
Would make an Angel Extravaganza (if it is ever re-implemented) harder, and some other mission too.
A lot of NPC drones do em or explosive damage and you get them in batches.
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ExcellciuM
Exair Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2008.02.02 00:10:00 -
[25]
Edited by: ExcellciuM on 02/02/2008 00:10:50 It's going to make running EA 5 and AE Bonus pretty tough.
I usually level off at 30% shields in my nighthawk and hold there in both rooms, now ill have to warp out...... I actually have to press a button now in a mission other than F1-F6
THE SKY IS FALLING! QUICK SAVE ME!
I'm more concerned about the weakening of shield tanks further in PvP, just another reason to not fly Caldari.
edit for big text
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.02 00:32:00 -
[26]
So basically most if not all of the complaints and flames are due to the shield resistance reduction and mission runners, who can't farm angel missions and alloyed titanium bars as easily as before? Ah well, carebears always used to complain the loudest..
Seriously Zulupark, please ignore them.
Actually I would have said -5% exp on shield might be enough for balance sake. Or maybe just -5% EM on armor, no shield reduction and instead 18% for EANM2. But the self-serving attitude of some players makes me say go through with it.
___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.02 00:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Viceroy Bolloxim Just wondered, because I hear all the PvP comments about the new ships, but something tells me that level 4 missions and some deadspace missions are about to become impossible.
bad enough torps from rats will travel 110km
please no carebear comments.. this is a serious enquiry as a lot of players do actually mission run
-bollo
How the hell did you get into Digi?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Johnny Darkseid
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.02.02 01:21:00 -
[28]
lmao. This change will have ZERO effect on mission runners. Even a nub fit can tank the hardest level 4's so this will only make them be a bit 'harder' as in you won't notice it.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 01:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Johnny Darkseid lmao. This change will have ZERO effect on mission runners. Even a nub fit can tank the hardest level 4's so this will only make them be a bit 'harder' as in you won't notice it.
QFT. Oh noes god forbid you might actually have to look at your screen while doing lvl 4s in your raven.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.02 02:11:00 -
[30]
Then what's the problem and all the outrage about?
Minmatar ships shooting at shield tanks in PvP? I mean.. come on, be serious.
Oh, or is it about all the passive tanked drakes in PvP? Well this could be part of the explanation.
___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
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