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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.03 00:20:00 -
[1]
I spent a while today combing over T1 mods seeing if there any that were reasonably profitable to produce.
I'm not saying I didn't find any, but there are just tons of T1 mods out there that would be pointless for a new player to produce. The prices first of all, are set almost exactly to match what it takes to produce with perfect skills, which new players mostly don't have. This is because, I'm sure, the biggest use of T1 modules is to be bought up in bulk and then reprocessed by perfect refiners and then sold.
But the bigger blow is that often the meta 1 and 2 modules, which are better in nearly every way, are often *half* the cost of stock T1 modules. (Because they refine for half as much of course). I can't see a new player buying T1 modules when he can equip better named modules without needing to train any skills, and can buy them for half the price.
Do you all think folks actually buy and use most T1 modules or is it more or less entirely reprocess driven at this point? (Speaking only, of course, for those modules that drop from pirates).
Manufacturing most of those modules would be a money losing proposition, and I think the 'minerals I mine myself are free' crowd would never even realize it!
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.03 00:30:00 -
[2]
People buy tech 1 mods to build tech 2 mods...
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.03 01:13:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Benvie
People buy tech 1 mods to build tech 2 mods...
Indeed. Or they buy them if they can't use T2 skill-wise and the better named mods are either too expensive or out of stock locally.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.03 01:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Benvie
People buy tech 1 mods to build tech 2 mods...
Hey, I said that in confidence! (I think!) (Perhaps not, still if I can't ***** about something my head will explode.) |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.02.03 03:47:00 -
[5]
Quote:
for a new player to produce. The prices first of all, are set almost exactly to match what it takes to produce with perfect skills, which new players mostly don't have.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I can get a perfect T2 producing character in about 2 months. That's not very unreasonable in my opinion. A starting character needs less than two weeks to be competitive on the manufacturing market in my opinion. Further, I hope you looked further abroad than Jita for your price examples too.
Improve Market Competition! |
Caleese
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Posted - 2008.02.03 07:59:00 -
[6]
Not to mention those "clever" people that sell items for less than the mineral value.
Oh how I <3 those people. Maybe I should start keeping track of how much isk I make buying things just to melt them and sell the minerals at a profit. 
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Lardarz B'stard
Amarr
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.02.03 10:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Caleese
Not to mention those "clever" people that sell items for less than the mineral value.
Oh how I <3 those people. Maybe I should start keeping track of how much isk I make buying things just to melt them and sell the minerals at a profit.
Traders seriously cannot be arsed to check the mineral cost of every item tbh. Its a total waste of time.
Originally by: Kindakrof
there is no gravity in space
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Caleese
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Posted - 2008.02.03 11:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
Originally by: Caleese
Not to mention those "clever" people that sell items for less than the mineral value.
Oh how I <3 those people. Maybe I should start keeping track of how much isk I make buying things just to melt them and sell the minerals at a profit.
Traders seriously cannot be arsed to check the mineral cost of every item tbh. Its a total waste of time.
Hmmm and here I thought the idea of trading was to make a good profit. Can't see how you can be making a profit on something by selling it for less than the mineral price 
But like I say.... I'll keep making a profit off them. In fact more people should sell me stuff below mineral price 
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Nummb
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.03 16:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Caleese
But like I say.... I'll keep making a profit off them. In fact more people should sell me stuff below mineral price
I agree 100%. I may not be the best trader out there and I may not work as fast as someone else, but I am making plenty of money by buying undervalued items, melting them down and then building profitable ones. Yes I have a program that I have written that assist me in this process, its a combination of paint, excel and HAL 9000.
Originally by: Shadarle
Roleplaying may be a good way to get chicks... not sure it works for investors. Unless the investors are chicks.
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Danari
Amarr
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.04 12:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nummb
I have a program that I have written that assist me in this process, its a combination of paint, excel and HAL 9000.
Be careful stepping out to the beer fridge in the garage 
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Hersheff
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Posted - 2008.02.04 13:29:00 -
[11]
"I feel rather sorry for just starting out T1 module manufacturers"
depends were you sell them.
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If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now, quiet! The're about to announce the lottery numbers... |
mr bighelmet
EnTech
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.04 17:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Caleese
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
Originally by: Caleese
Not to mention those "clever" people that sell items for less than the mineral value.
Oh how I <3 those people. Maybe I should start keeping track of how much isk I make buying things just to melt them and sell the minerals at a profit.
Traders seriously cannot be arsed to check the mineral cost of every item tbh. Its a total waste of time.
Hmmm and here I thought the idea of trading was to make a good profit. Can't see how you can be making a profit on something by selling it for less than the mineral price
But like I say.... I'll keep making a profit off them. In fact more people should sell me stuff below mineral price
Thinking you know the other person market strategy is a risk, u dont know his standing or his reprocess skills, maybe he menaged to get a good proffit on the item already and wish to unload it fast?
I know there are certain things i bring from low sec that i sell below minerals cost becuse for me it's better to unload them fast and move on.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Prospor
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Posted - 2008.02.05 06:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Prospor on 05/02/2008 06:09:05
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
An alt needs less than two weeks to be competitive on the manufacturing market in my opinion.
Fixed, and...
If you consider Production Efficiency IV competitive, you could be. That skill alone will take you more time to train to V than the two weeks as a new player. From what I've seen on guides and forum advice, you get this skill to V (TBH, it's good advice IMO). Then you have cost of implants, learning skills, BPO, BPO research, and mineral costs. Each of these is cutting into how much time you spend selling product before making profit, you'll be 'in debt' for a while until the sales pay off the investment. Then the learning curve in EVE is steep, not all new players get the advice to check for pre-researched BPOs (which they and their Miner I's and/or free frigates with civilian guns will grind to get money for while they train) and spend 2-3 weeks after buying a BPO just waiting for research to be done. Most are told to train learning skills for the first month. You only really need three skills for production of T1 (Industry V, Prod Eff and Mass Prod). Can't comment on the T2 part though. Still, it's what... 6-7 weeks?
Personally, I've put up buy orders for the meta items of modules I produce to resell them. I figure purchasing them myself will be much cheaper than letting them take away my customers. I've yet to see how well this strategy pans out though, with buy value under melt value I'm sure to come out ahead still.
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Daqinson
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.05 14:28:00 -
[14]
People buy T1 all the time. Sit in a system on the verge of 0.0 and one day you will sell 1,0000,0000000,00,0000 Small neutron blasters... Because blobing in throwaway tech 1 ships is fun :D
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Caleese
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Posted - 2008.02.06 11:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: mr bighelmet
Thinking you know the other person market strategy is a risk, u dont know his standing or his reprocess skills, maybe he menaged to get a good proffit on the item already and wish to unload it fast?
I know there are certain things i bring from low sec that i sell below minerals cost becuse for me it's better to unload them fast and move on.
Wouldn't it make more sense (and dare I say isk) that if you're going to sell stuff below mineral price, you reprocess (or get a corp mate to reprocess it if you don't have the skills) and sell the minerals for more?
Oh wait no forget that, just keep selling stuff for less than it's worth... I like people like you
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Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person.
How does the world survive such stupidity? |
Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.02.06 13:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Caleese
Hmmm and here I thought the idea of trading was to make a good profit. Can't see how you can be making a profit on something by selling it for less than the mineral price
It's simple. T1 loot drops. People who pick these up don't care at all about the mineral price of the things because they haven't expended those minerals to get it, and probably lack the skills and trading infrastructure to realise the full value of it's mineral form anyway.
Originally by: Caleese
Wouldn't it make more sense (and dare I say isk) that if you're going to sell stuff below mineral price, you reprocess (or get a corp mate to reprocess it if you don't have the skills) and sell the minerals for more?
That depends on several factors.
He may not have a corp mate with reprocessing skills, or a refining friend willing to effectively subsidise him by loaning out those skills for free.
It may be easier to sell the module than the minerals. This will largely depend on where you are, what you have, and how many of them you have. If it's a small item, or you don't have very many of them, selling the minerals may turn out to be quite time-consuming and inefficient.
No-ones going to come and collect from your sell order for a few hundred trit, or 2 units of zyd, so you'll be selling direct to buy orders. Which is likely to mean hauling the stuff to several different systems to get the best buy order for each mineral individually, or accepting lower-priced buy orders. So either you need to factor in the cost of the hauling, or the lower price of those local buy orders.
These players are unlikely to handle sufficient volumes, or have the skills and time required to leverage the "full" value of these items. Therefore, it should not come as a surprise that you are able to leverage more value out of an item than they are.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Myrdyr
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Posted - 2008.02.06 15:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Matthew
Which is likely to mean hauling the stuff to several different systems to get the best buy order for each mineral individually,
Wow, have you even opened up the market window in game?
Please post constructively. ~Saint |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.06 15:41:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Thinking you know the other person market strategy is a risk, u dont know his standing or his reprocess skills, maybe he menaged to get a good proffit on the item already and wish to unload it fast?
It's always silly to call another trader stupid when you may not understand his reasoning. Maybe he's not trying to squeeze out the last extra penny, and is just trying to make a quick sale. Maybe he's more concerned about turnover and keeping his isk free.
There are many reasons why people might put up items for sell orders for less than it their mineral cost. Of course, if you're in the right area, you won't need to sell it for much less than mineral cost anyway.
Though, when people talk of an items 'reprocess value' they are usually referring to the total composition of minerals in there, or what you'd get with max reprocessing and good station standing.
If you have these, it really doesn't matter what the other guys strategy is: free isk for you if it's at your station. I like people who sell things for below mineral cost and wish there were more of them.
Knowing the mineral cost of every item involves a lot of bookeeping and spreadsheet trawling and updating of mineral values. For most folks, it's just simpler to sell the item as is.
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Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.02.06 15:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Myrdyr
Originally by: Matthew
Which is likely to mean hauling the stuff to several different systems to get the best buy order for each mineral individually,
Wow, have you even opened up the market window in game?
Yes, I have. Many times per day. For the last 3+ years.
Unless you plan to live in jita your entire Eve existence, it is very likely that the best buy order for a mineral in your region at any given time will be in a system other than the one you are currently in.
While you'll probably be able to narrow down where the best buy orders are likely to appear into a handful of systems for each region, it's very unlikely that all the minerals will be highest in one system at the same time. Which means you'll either accept a slightly lower price, or be doing a lot of hauling.
Bear in mind that the situation my post was describing was specifically for a player who is seeing volumes insufficient for high-priced sell orders. Clearly, this will be a very different proposition to that faced by the dedicated mineral traders, will require differeing approaches, and will value the materials differently (which was the whole point of my post).
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
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