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The Ratfink
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Posted - 2004.03.28 12:04:00 -
[1]
I have noticed a new tactic by a certain corperation we are at war with that use their alts as human shields in empire battles. Basically if one of your ships shoot cruise missiles its true they don't splash damage anymore but what they would do with their alts is fly in front of the missiles and get purposely blown up so the sentry guns will fire on your ship.
You'd think this was a exploit right? but no it appears that this is a "legitimate tactic"
you thoughts on this matter.. ?
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.03.28 12:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 28/03/2004 12:24:10
Not pointing fingers, but...
Yea we noticed that too. I think it is very lame, and nowadays it boils down to "who started it first". I mean we all have proof of such things, and we have quotes of other side claiming "this is not an exploit - GM Abraxas", but it's still lame.
I believe a gentleman's agreement is about to take place about the issue, let's see who keeps his promise.
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2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.03.28 12:27:00 -
[3]
Lame yes, only counter I can see is to not use missiles.
Sadly the only way you can level the field is by employing the same tactics against them, that way nither of you can use missiles and its down to guns and drones.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.28 12:35:00 -
[4]
Simple solution:
Stop missiles hitting anything but the target they were aimed at, remove splash damage from ALL missiles bar torpedoes, and that's all that needs be done to solve this problem.
I lost my Scorpion this weekend because it hit someone it shouldn't have done but there wasn't any cheating or anything; it was just bad luck that a stupid Velator-n00b got in the way.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.28 14:33:00 -
[5]
Surprise surprise, I foresaw this a long time ago.
Question is what can you do about it?
Convert Stations
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.03.28 14:48:00 -
[6]
they should make it so if n00bs get in the way they just die pure and simple. And using missiles in empire's a bit silly considering the surroundings. Unless your at a m00n of course
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.03.28 14:55:00 -
[7]
I agree, this tactic is particularily frustrating, and lame.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.03.28 16:28:00 -
[8]
We asked about this months ago and were told its a valid tactic. That said, cruise don't do too much splash damage so long as your careful. We just solved the problem by using an empire setup which didn't involve missiles.
Still its a lame tactic, but then again even if they didn't you might hit some innocent pilot :(
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2004.03.28 16:37:00 -
[9]
hmm sounds familiar, while we were at war with Merc Frigs i had one of their allies do that..get in the way, stop me using smart bombs, then grabing any loot. Needless to say i died.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.03.28 16:53:00 -
[10]
You get 3 characters with each account so deal with it... I think its bogus too but it has always been this way and I use my alts as well. So if you can't beat them join them! Adapt or perish!
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Admiral Thirdleg
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Posted - 2004.03.28 17:02:00 -
[11]
This tactic should be deemed exploit and thus incur a ban
Also, remove alts. Really, why do you need em? It's not like this is traditional MMORPG where you need other classes to get certain skills. Anyone can get any skill, alts just remove the ability to get them fast and cheap, removes spying and alt posting, and crap ass tactics like these. ONE CHARACTER ONLY!
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2004.03.28 18:18:00 -
[12]
Yeah sadly it's "just one of those things" at the moment. Some of our alliances corps have one of our enemies employing the utterly lame tactics of constantly jumping between "war corps" to fight them and using human shields.
It's pretty sad that people need to do this but I guess it's not really an exploit, it's certainly a respect drainer though.
Eve Blacklight Style
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The Ratfink
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Posted - 2004.03.28 19:13:00 -
[13]
Saying don't use missiles is all well and good but when you have ships that have mostly missile slots rather than turrets you tend to loose the advantage. We will never stoop to their lame level (they know this) and so they are pretty safe using cruise missiles. So we would be disadvantaged
Also about fighting at moons its not like you can control where you fight it just happens
The only way i could see a work around for this is changing the empire mechanics so missiles and so forth do not hurt any pilots that are not at war in empire space. This does not only add security to the real new players but also stops lame tactics as mentioned in this thread.
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Lycanth
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Posted - 2004.03.28 19:28:00 -
[14]
 Quote:
This tactic should be deemed exploit and thus incur a ban
Also, remove alts. Really, why do you need em? It's not like this is traditional MMORPG where you need other classes to get certain skills. Anyone can get any skill, alts just remove the ability to get them fast and cheap, removes spying and alt posting, and crap ass tactics like these. ONE CHARACTER ONLY!
I agree it should be classed as an exploit but removing the spare two character slots is not bright
What about the people who may have to share their account with say their brother or their father?
by your reasoning those people would have to pay for a brand new account
And besides who would decide which is your main character and which is just an alt?
No removing the extra two characters cannot,will not ever be a viable option nor a solution for this problem as any fool could just pay some new char 100k to fly his n00b ship in the path of your missiles
Thanx for your time
dont even bother turning your mods on-it wont help. |
Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.03.29 07:49:00 -
[15]
Laff.. reminds me of something I did to a pirate once..
Someone jumped me as I was idling at a gate, fired some cruise missles from a Kestrel.. I just moved my ship behind the gate and when they impacted the gate.. in effect, they had attacked Concord.. oops, look at all the pretty colors.
Doesn't beat my favorite PK-Pirate missle encounter though.. was in a Moa one day, and happened to have two MWD on it for traveling.. got jumped by a Kestrel (what is it with you guys and Kestrels?) So I just MWD'ed around and brought his cruise missles back to him.. scratched my armor a bit, but blew the @#$@ out of his Kes and his pod.. Thank you, splash damage.. I miss you!
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Nyrram |
Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.03.29 08:07:00 -
[16]
One of those player-made movies has a bship that is being circled by shuttles... I figure it's either to keep missles from leaving the bb, or keep missles from hitting the bb.. either way, it's cheap as crap.
The video is called the-nubtastic-nubmen-for-hire.avi
From the looks of it, it's the attackers using this cheap tactic on the target.
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Nyrram |
Judicator
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Posted - 2004.03.29 08:14:00 -
[17]
Telling people that they should just refrain from using missiles pretty much amounts to the same thing as teling Caldari pilots to go and jump off the deep end. I fly mostly Gallentean ships and they are gunboats so I *could* care less, but I don't.
Missiles hitting targets that get in their way is realistic to a degree, but I'd rather live without that degree of realisme and avoid Caldari pilots getting screwed over. In terms of realisme a projectile/hybrid/laser should also hit things that get in their way, but right now they just magic themself right through and only hit the intended target.
How can you justify the missile behavior if guns don't suffer the same problem, as they rightly should?
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Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.03.29 08:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nyrram on 29/03/2004 08:38:17
Judicator, I couldn't agree more.. if you download that vid and watch it, these Nubtastic idiots are indeed the ones circling their target (a Scorpion bship) with shuttles.. you know that the pilot of one of the shuttles is the twit taking the video, because all the readouts on the screen show you that he has no modules and is flying 500m/s at 500m from the bship... and they are actually PROUD that they managed to kill a Scorpion under these conditions? Proud enough to display this video of them using an obviously lame, p*ssy tactic to get a kill, anyway..
I mean, in part of the first sequence, you can actually see the shots coming to the Scorpion from the sentry guns... and this is supposed to impress us how exactly?
Funniest part of the clip is in the second section where they have several Carcals firing cruises at a lone Raven.. one of the Nubmen ships flies too close to fire his missles, and as he's apparently trying to get out of the way, his ship is destroyed and he his podded by missles from his own corp... great flyin there guys.
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Nyrram |
Judicator
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Posted - 2004.03.29 08:45:00 -
[19]
Nyrram
The tatic employed by those nubtastic lamers is ranked amongst the lowest of low. If you need to employ underhand tatics to win your are truely a sad person/corporation.
I don't care how "legit" it is and tbf I think it is only legit because the devs never saw it coming. It might become outlawed some day tough. Main problem is also the fact that sentry guns and CONCORDE are teh ultimate gank squads so any mistake and you are dead.
EVE could learn from Jumpgate in regards to security and players policing themself. Might need to modify the system, but at least you would not be instan gibbed by sentries and CONCORD over a minor mistake.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:28:00 -
[20]
<- Guilty.
I may have had something to do with this 'tactic' starting, let me explain.
A long time ago I was paid by a certain corporation to help defend them during a war.
My Corp at the time, Latro Militaris, specialised in fixing peoples problems at a cost, mostly simple take-outs (I don't mean pizza here)
Anyway, I knew that Concord and sentry guns would take out the people who fired 'intercepted' missiles. I thought it was worth a try, afterall, work is work.
I fitted a punisher for pure speed, and waited...
...
...
...
Eventually a battle kicked off, both sides using missiles.
I manually navigated my punisher at 8.5km/s through the swarm of missiles into my pre-selected torp. I knew I couldn't afford to hit friendly missiles, and hitting multiple enemy missiles would toast me fast.
I mangaged to hit the target missile, and concord proceeded to do their job.
Was it lame?
Well, I had the balls to risk my main character and his full set of implants knowing there was a very good chance of getting podded.
Was it fun?
Hell yes, it was a huge rush.
Is it an exploit?
The way I did it, no.
Is it griefing?
No, I was paid to do it, it was work.
Should alts / n00bs do it?
Hell no.
Should missiles only hit their intended target?
No.
Clearly I am biased because I use turret based ships?
I fly a Raven.
Adapt ladies, stop begging CCP to make the game easy for you. Seriously.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:32:00 -
[21]
Balance balance balance.
Make all ammo impact on objects between it and its target or none at all.
You cannot treat one differently than the other.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Xavier Perez
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:45:00 -
[22]
But...but...but.....a 1400 mm artillery shell flying through a 400 km wide asteroid is perfectly reallistic!
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: McWatt on 29/03/2004 20:05:02
Quote:
Adapt ladies, stop begging CCP to make the game easy for you. Seriously.
the real problem is uber-concord.
and always was.
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Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:12:00 -
[24]
Amen, McWatt!
You could just toast the human shield twits if Concord wouldn't instagank you all the time.
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Nyrram |
Ooke
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:18:00 -
[25]
would be nice if npc's like concord could interpret intention. from the straight numbers they killed an "innocent" but if they saw them get into the middle of danger on purpose it would/could be a totally different situation. Or maybe they could "tow" neutrals out of the way from warring corps...
course AI isn't even a fraction smart enough to figure that one out.
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
toaster
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:37:00 -
[26]
This tactic has been used for a long time now. We had opponents using it and just did our best to work around it. Some of our guys petitioned it and were told tough luck from what I remember. There are workarounds, but since the ridiculous strengh and number of sentry guns got put into place, it's not as easy as just warping away. Your ship will be toast quickly.
I would just use turrets while battling in safe space, that's a good policy anyway just due to the large number of new pilots and innocent bystanders in safe space.
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Denathis Arabar
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:50:00 -
[27]
I would agree with josh, ammo does have that evil advantage of going through things, but it would be impossible to make it hit stuff in the way i would guess.
Other then that this reminds me of a the agent missions a while ago, the missions were giving us stuff to kill at the gates, i thought this was cool, you would see battles happening 50k out from the gates and you could help people if they needed help. People complained that people were getting in teh way and getting killed ect... (to me i thought it added extra realism and interactivity with players) The missions were moved away from gates into the loneliness of a point in space where there is no one...
Same with this, empire is peacefull, if you have a war you have to be carefull not to kill other people around, so carefull with smart bombs and carefull with missiles which splash. Why does everyone always want the game dumbing down instead of trying to change their own tactics?
(please note im caldari so use missiles but we do have other options.)
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