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Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.02.14 14:15:00 - [121] Bump for tempest agility boost!!!! It deserves it! Also plating minmatar ships except the typhoon is tupid since throw away the only advantage minmatar have that is agility and speed (that in BS calss is almost non present)
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.14 14:24:00 - [122] The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.14 15:54:00 - [123] Edited by: Goumindong on 14/02/2008 15:56:35 Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc. This is false, the bellicose can be fit to be used just fine. Its very similar to a stabber, a tad bit slower, but more DPS and more non-tracking based DPS[it can also run a huge buffer tank with 2 LSEs, or a perma-MWD setup at 2.5-3km/s] Its about as strong as the Arbitrator, about the same DPS but its a lot faster. Trades that for the versatility of the Arbis drone bay and ewar.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.14 16:55:00 - [124] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 14/02/2008 15:56:35 Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc. This is false, the bellicose can be fit to be used just fine. Its very similar to a stabber, a tad bit slower, but more DPS and more non-tracking based DPS[it can also run a huge buffer tank with 2 LSEs, or a perma-MWD setup at 2.5-3km/s] Its about as strong as the Arbitrator, about the same DPS but its a lot faster. Trades that for the versatility of the Arbis drone bay and ewar. The only reply I can think of to this is: .....................................__................................................ .............................,-~`»lllllll`~,.......................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll»`-,.................................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,.................................. ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\................................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................................ ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,........................... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(»`,`,.......................... ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).......................... .................\,-`»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-*......\|...`-,..........\........
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:04:00 - [125] Edited by: Goumindong on 14/02/2008 18:04:32 Eh, not my fault if you wont see its advantages.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:09:00 - [126] Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc. There is nothing really wrong with the bellicose as goumindong says. Its more that stabber and rupture are so good that no one cares much for the bellicose. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Bane Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:16:00 - [127] The only problem with the Bellicose is that 19 times out of 20 target painters aren't worth using. The ship itself doesn't have any problems.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:50:00 - [128] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc. There is nothing really wrong with the bellicose as goumindong says. Its more that stabber and rupture are so good that no one cares much for the bellicose. Ah, the stabber is SO good that I have a rigged one gathering dust for months now. Why would you ever think of flying one with heat all around and no falloff bonuses? That leaves the rupture as the only viable cruiser flying.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:52:00 - [129] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 14/02/2008 18:04:32 Eh, not my fault if you wont see its advantages. Which of them is it? Never being primaried, or fast easy insurance payouts?
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:58:00 - [130] Originally by: Seishomaru Bump for tempest agility boost!!!! It deserves it! Also plating minmatar ships except the typhoon is tupid since throw away the only advantage minmatar have that is agility and speed (that in BS calss is almost non present) All things said, the agility bonus is probably not enough to make much of a difference. Doesn't have any impact vs droneships, doesn't have any impact vs missile spammers either, doesn't probably have any impact vs pulses either, and you'll end up webbed by tacklers anyway and you won't be able to leverage your ship bonus unlike your targets.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.14 19:41:00 - [131] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Ah, the stabber is SO good that I have a rigged one gathering dust for months now. Why would you ever think of flying one with heat all around and no falloff bonuses? That leaves the rupture as the only viable cruiser flying. Uhm you not happy with the stabber? LoL -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.14 19:46:00 - [132] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ariel Dawn The Bellicose is pretty much the only ship in EVE that is labeled a comedy option, even if you fit it with an actual intent to use it. Saying it is fine... take a look at how easy it is to fit, then it's bonuses, etc. There is nothing really wrong with the bellicose as goumindong says. Its more that stabber and rupture are so good that no one cares much for the bellicose. Ah, the stabber is SO good that I have a rigged one gathering dust for months now. Why would you ever think of flying one with heat all around and no falloff bonuses? That leaves the rupture as the only viable cruiser flying. The stabber and the rupture are different types of ships. But stabbers are excellent heavy tacklers. They are essentially super-frigates. Bellicoses are similar, but either perma run the mwd or have a really huge buffer for tackling. That you don't have a use for them doesn't mean that others don't have a use for them. Stabbers are cheap vagabonds and Bellicoses slightly different Stabbers. Yea, vagabonds are better, but they also require more skills, cost a whole bunch more, and are the "super-specialized" version of the ship.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.14 21:45:00 - [133] The problem with the Bellicose is that Target Painters are pretty terrible in comparison to other ewar, the Stabber does a better job at being a Stabber than the Bellicose does. It doesn't really have a use, unless for some reason the only thing you have access to is Bellicoses. Target Painters are another issue entirely though and should warrant their own discussion thread.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.14 21:52:00 - [134] Originally by: Ariel Dawn The problem with the Bellicose is that Target Painters are pretty terrible in comparison to other ewar, the Stabber does a better job at being a Stabber than the Bellicose does. It doesn't really have a use, unless for some reason the only thing you have access to is Bellicoses. Target Painters are another issue entirely though and should warrant their own discussion thread. Have you even tried to fly a bellicose or are you a leaf caught up in the wind? -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Siddy Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.14 23:35:00 - [135] I am little diapointed abaut tempest now, i need it to be more agile and more light or faster. Signed siddy Eves No1 Tempest advocate
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.14 23:43:00 - [136] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ariel Dawn The problem with the Bellicose is that Target Painters are pretty terrible in comparison to other ewar, the Stabber does a better job at being a Stabber than the Bellicose does. It doesn't really have a use, unless for some reason the only thing you have access to is Bellicoses. Target Painters are another issue entirely though and should warrant their own discussion thread. Have you even tried to fly a bellicose or are you a leaf caught up in the wind? I've flown every Minmatar ship asides from the Vargur and Naglfar, Hel and Ragnarok. From what I can tell, you haven't even flown a Rifter. I know what the Bellicose is capable of and compared to the Stabber/Rupture it has no use unlike an Arbitrator/Celestis(prenerf)/Blackbird asides from messing around with a Phoenix. And this thread, again, is not concerning any of that. Tempest needing a boost is the issue at hand.
Rogerano Minmatar Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:16:00 - [137] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Minmatar have speed. Thats their thing. So no, you cant have the best tanking and best ganking battleships. Just like gallente, amarr and caldari dont have the fastest hac or cs... mmmm balance... This statement is super-doopa-dumb and shows a complete lack of forethought. When has speed ever been a factor for battleships (after the nano-nerf)? Before you answer "nano-phoon" please try to recall that we are not discussing the phoon here. Tempest. Does. Not. Speed. Tank. --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:40:00 - [138] Range dictation.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:57:00 - [139] Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. But Im guessing he doesnt know what that means judging by his response, wich is pretty lol since he seems to be minmatar and prolly flies minmatar ships. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Ort Lofthus Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.15 08:25:00 - [140] I am thinking the way to fix the tempest is to make midslots useful again. It was always sort of a gunboat that relied more on untility highs and mids instead of the tanks you see on other gunboats. It actually has a lot to gain from the new TDs. A pair of em will knock down a target's gun range by about 70% with max skills, which is enough to knock a neutron mega with null down to 8km optimal+falloff. The only thing I would change would be to make the tracking computer range script for falloff, so autocannons could have a non-rig method of increasing falloff. Keeping the falloff boost only on a midslot module means that the tempest would have unique to bring to the table, as it is better able to spend midslots on tracking computers, and thus falloff. I am not sure about just making an optimal+falloff script for the TC because it would result in an increase in artillery ranges. I know for certain that a falloff enhancing tracking enhancer would be pretty overpowered, and find a place on many of my auto-boats.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.15 10:26:00 - [141] Originally by: Goumindong But stabbers are excellent heavy tacklers. They are essentially super-frigates. Bellicoses are similar, but either perma run the mwd or have a really huge buffer for tackling. Is a super frigate a kind of under-performing cruiser? Cause I can slap some speed mods on the lows and end up with a slightly slower stabber with a damage bonus. Originally by: Goumindong Stabbers are cheap vagabonds and Bellicoses slightly different Stabbers. Another under-performing cruiser then? Anyway, no, if it was a cheap vagabond it'd have a falloff bonus which it doesn't. And as such it can't kill ** because it'll get webbed in a heartbeat or do no dps at all. It would seem that once a ship is useless it gets turned into a tackler. Originally by:** Goumindong Yea, vagabonds are better, but they also require more skills, cost a whole bunch more, and are the "super-specialized" version of the ship. Obviously a vagabond is not a tackler, it's a hit and run ship. Just like a stabber or the bellicose aren't tacklers. But yes, once our ships are pussified enough that's the only thing you can do.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.15 10:29:00 - [142] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. But Im guessing he doesnt know what that means judging by his response, wich is pretty lol since he seems to be minmatar and prolly flies minmatar ships. And I know that he knows what he's talking about because he probably flies minmatar ships, unlike you.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.02.15 11:07:00 - [143] Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. How do you dictate range even in 1BS-vs-1BS in a Tempest now that overloading is available? Keep your MWD always overloaded and hope it won't blow up before the fight is over? And of course, against any gang that includes at least one cruiser or smaller with a webber... Forget it. -- Gradient forum
Maraleith The Culture Holding Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.15 12:23:00 - [144] How about we simply adjust the tracking of large artillery and autocannons upwards, adjust agility upwards and speed slightly upwards? The improved tracking might remove the need for a rack of tracking computers and tracking enhancers to reach the same range as the revised Amarr BS. It won't stop the basic issue of the Tempest being outtanked and outranged by the revised Amarr ship but its a start.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.15 13:24:00 - [145] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. How do you dictate range even in 1BS-vs-1BS in a Tempest now that overloading is available? Keep your MWD always overloaded and hope it won't blow up before the fight is over? And of course, against any gang that includes at least one cruiser or smaller with a webber... Forget it. Aye, this is very true as well. If they overload their MWD and your cycle just started, your overload can come 7+ seconds later than theirs will. Mobility advantages on the BS level are incredibly difficult to take advantage of, unlike BC size and below, mainly due to agility issues.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.15 14:53:00 - [146] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. But Im guessing he doesnt know what that means judging by his response, wich is pretty lol since he seems to be minmatar and prolly flies minmatar ships. And I know that he knows what he's talking about because he probably flies minmatar ships, unlike you. He does? Great flame bait. Go back to your cave vanessa. You havent made a single valid point in all these threads. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.15 14:55:00 - [147] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. How do you dictate range even in 1BS-vs-1BS in a Tempest now that overloading is available? Keep your MWD always overloaded and hope it won't blow up before the fight is over? And of course, against any gang that includes at least one cruiser or smaller with a webber... Forget it. Aye, this is very true as well. If they overload their MWD and your cycle just started, your overload can come 7+ seconds later than theirs will. Mobility advantages on the BS level are incredibly difficult to take advantage of, unlike BC size and below, mainly due to agility issues. No its not difficult. So it doesnt work 100% of times. So sometimes your overheat MIGHT come a bit too late. Oh noes its not 100% fail proof so I cant play like this. Oh noes. Its not like you have to orbit another battleship, its just enough that you can be a tiny bit faster to keep the range. Seriously ariel are you even playing this game or no? -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:59:00 - [148] Edited by: Goumindong on 15/02/2008 16:01:13 Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Goumindong Range dictation. How do you dictate range even in 1BS-vs-1BS in a Tempest now that overloading is available? Keep your MWD always overloaded and hope it won't blow up before the fight is over? And of course, against any gang that includes at least one cruiser or smaller with a webber... Forget it. No, play keep away with unoverloaded MWD and then overload your web and activate it as soon as he hits 13km. Fly manually and orbit at about 9.5km if you get him slow enough. As he bursts his mwd, keep bursting yours. He will probably close eventually, but its unlikely he will do so before you have done enough damage to bring him down. If you get caught, switch to hail and start ganking. Oh, and shoot the cruiser/frigate first. If that means the mega gets close enough, overload your mwd and burn away with the TD on him. With the TD you don't need to keep him out of web range, just out of short web range.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.15 19:27:00 - [149] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Vanessa Vale And I know that he knows what he's talking about because he probably flies minmatar ships, unlike you. He does? Great flame bait. Go back to your cave vanessa. You havent made a single valid point in all these threads. Hey! Come back! You forgot the content in your post!
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.02.15 21:29:00 - [150] the tempest is FINE as it is. your right when you say it may not be the best bs in game, but who cares. Eve is about ships being different. The tempest can hit very high dps, and be selective with damage types. Not sure how their is a problem with that.

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