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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:14:00 -
[1]
Shadarle pointed out to me that it is overdue. Indeed it is, got it together just haven't converted into a public safe document (like previously). Also, I've a few ideas that I wanted to discuss but again operational security issues intrudes so I felt I couldn't exactly discuss it publicly or with every holding share member.
(BTW I do have a current share holder listing and I'm impressed, nay, stunned at the retention rate. Only 3% have moved on the secondary market and I'd say that number is lower. I simply haven't confirmed all the corporate holdings with all the buyers of record.)
So, with the current list in hand I've contacted those large investors that constitute more than half, more than 50%, of those invested in RDIR. This list of investors does not include myself so my own 6.53% of RDIR holding was not in consideration. I am not disclosing the share holder list or who the are though if you've followed RDIR you pretty much know who that is already.
What I have presented to them is a 100% complete accounting of all transactions up to 31-Jan-08. It is truly complete with all the raw data included as well as a very well designed, if I may so, summary page. I've also posed certain ideas as well but at this point only half of those people have responded with email addresses where I could send the report.
While Benvie and myself have some distinct ideas on direction and management I have simply presented the report to this quorum and laid some simple questions down. In essence, I'm open to input, advice, criticism, and confirmations without reservations nor preconditions.
Well just one, I simply asked that the "ledger" remain undisclosed. I hope this update satisfies any worries or concerns. Sorry for having previously given you cause for doubt in my commitment or abilities.
Enough for now.
I will update this thread with a fully realized report within the week.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:17:00 -
[2]
{Reserved}
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:21:00 -
[3]
I should add that I posted this update as some of those investors I contacted felt that perhaps these discussions or, more importantly, that I am not including every possible investor in them might be inappropriate. Or at least deemed as such.
I respond to this simply by saying, I can only lay everything out clearly to as many people as is prudent. Transparency and accountability is paramount but so is operational security. Thus my choice on handling it was to do it this way.
>crosses fingers<
Here's to hoping there's a generalized shortage of drama this day/week.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Shadarle on 04/02/2008 21:19:00
After reading the email I can fully understand why you wouldn't want to disclose it to everyone. It is quite explicit.
When I have a chance to log in again I'll send you my thoughts on the specifics, especially about buy backs.
EDIT> Though perhaps you'll discuss the potential buyback amounts in this thread before I get a chance to log in (minimum of 4-5 hours from now). Mostly I'm just curious about this while I go over the other information in that report.
I also should add that Benvie did an amazing job picking items! Quite impressive.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:20:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Shadarle
It is quite explicit.
Having put together the report I lol'd when I read that. I'm very pleased with the diligence exercised in keeping everything well documented. Even mishaps are clear to see.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Jon Sanng
Minmatar
Conducti
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jon Sanng on 04/02/2008 22:50:36
So smaller investors get what exactly, a pat on the head? (edit: I guess the "public safe" report is forth coming, I apologize.)
How much longer do you think it's going to be for you to sell off your remaining stock? How much stock do you have left? What's your current NAV?
And how about some dividends? I'm growing tired of my ISK sitting in someones wallet completely stagnant.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jon Sanng
So smaller investors get what exactly, a pat on the head? And how about some dividends? I'm growing tired of my ISK sitting in someones wallet completely stagnant.
If you want a pat on the head I've got no problem with giving you one. But would you be comfortable with me ruining the fund simply to include everyone who might have a share? A decision had to be made who to disclose the full ledger to prior to fund closing down. And sorry you aren't one of them. I can't won't just act irresponsibly because you might act irritably. As for dividends, never was going to be any dividends. As for buyback, buy back and Nav has been stated each report. Isk, if you had wanted it, was yours for the asking.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Jon Sanng
Minmatar
Conducti
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Posted - 2008.02.04 23:10:00 -
[8]
That's cute how you picked parts of my post to respond to just to be an ass. Even after I apologized about my own misunderstanding.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.04 23:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jon Sanng
That's cute how you picked parts of my post to respond to just to be an ass. Even after I apologized about my own misunderstanding.
Well having read your 1st post, and its later edited version you do come off as an uninformed ass. I didnt even need to pick it apart, the whole tone of your first post was a-holeish. With that I can say, enjoy your pat on the head, because I as a "small investor" in this plan, knew from the get go, that I wouldnt be privy to some of the information until the whole project was complete.
If you had paid attention to the orginal plan, the money is "stagnant in the wallet" by your choice. At any time you have been more than welcome to have Shar/Benvie buy back your shars at the current estimated NAV.
--
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Jon Sanng
Minmatar
Conducti
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Posted - 2008.02.05 00:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Treelox
Well having read your 1st post, and its later edited version you do come off as an uninformed ass. I didnt even need to pick it apart, the whole tone of your first post was a-holeish. With that I can say, enjoy your pat on the head, because I as a "small investor" in this plan, knew from the get go, that I wouldnt be privy to some of the information until the whole project was complete.
If you had paid attention to the orginal plan, the money is "stagnant in the wallet" by your choice. At any time you have been more than welcome to have Shar/Benvie buy back your shars at the current estimated NAV.
An uninformed ass? The original IPO called for "liquidation will be completed no later than two months from the date of the release of the expansion.". Trinity released on December 5th, today is now February 4th. Forgive me if I get impatient a whole day early.
I don't expect to get detailed information about what he's buying and selling, but I was expecting at least some sort of report as was done here, here and here. After I realized such a report would be forth coming, and apologized for it, I was perfectly content to wait. Instead he, and now you, bite my head off about it.
And finally, it's difficult to gauge the worth of my investment and sell my shares when I haven't seen an update in more than a month, when I'd expect the share price to be climbing the most. Again this goes back to my apology and is a good point to rag on if you need to make yourself feel good, I guess.
P.S. See what I did here? I responded to an entire post rather than just a few very specific points. You should take some notes Shar. (I can be an ass too!!)
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.02.05 00:26:00 -
[11]
Pshaw, who needs the OC or Home and Away when you've got the MD forums :)
Anyways, interesting to know there's still a finger of RDIR out there. Certainly explains a few things I've seen 
Improve Market Competition! |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.05 01:40:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Treelox on 05/02/2008 01:41:06
Originally by: Jon Sanng
Originally by: Treelox
Well having read your 1st post, and its later edited version you do come off as an uninformed ass. I didnt even need to pick it apart, the whole tone of your first post was a-holeish. With that I can say, enjoy your pat on the head, because I as a "small investor" in this plan, knew from the get go, that I wouldnt be privy to some of the information until the whole project was complete.
If you had paid attention to the orginal plan, the money is "stagnant in the wallet" by your choice. At any time you have been more than welcome to have Shar/Benvie buy back your shars at the current estimated NAV.
An uninformed ass? The original IPO called for "liquidation will be completed no later than two months from the date of the release of the expansion.". Trinity released on December 5th, today is now February 4th. Forgive me if I get impatient a whole day early.
I don't expect to get detailed information about what he's buying and selling, but I was expecting at least some sort of report as was done here, here and here. After I realized such a report would be forth coming, and apologized for it, I was perfectly content to wait. Instead he, and now you, bite my head off about it.
And finally, it's difficult to gauge the worth of my investment and sell my shares when I haven't seen an update in more than a month, when I'd expect the share price to be climbing the most. Again this goes back to my apology and is a good point to rag on if you need to make yourself feel good, I guess.
P.S. See what I did here? I responded to an entire post rather than just a few very specific points. You should take some notes Shar. (I can be an ass too!!)
Well Jon you still remain uninformed, your really should read everything before you start typing.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=615609&page=1#28
Originally by: Shar
To explain: This is very much a speculative hedge type of fund. Once the go point is reached (and it has in reservations so far) the fund will initiate phase one. Once that is complete, it will go dormant. The length of time is really unspecified and can only be guessed on. Then, once the new patch hits it'll reactivate and try to profit.
But I guess you just have selective reading and only understood what you wanted too.
And please, please, please make sure you understand what you are investing in.
Originally by: Shar
Allot of you I know, or know me, fairly well so the warning is not needed. But I seriously don't need investors who are not clear on what they are getting into. I'm not nice, I'm anti-warm & fuzzy. So, please, please, please understand what you are getting into as you run the risk of getting your head bit off if you don't.
And as to monthly reports, I dont recall there ever being a provision in any of the business plan write-ups that there would be monthly reports. Although Shar has in numerous places in a few of the threads about this investment, stated that he is availble to be contacted by investors if they have questions or concerns.
I am glad we understand each other now.
---
Dear Mod, yes its worth it.
---edit
forgot to hyperlink, oops
--
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.05 01:56:00 -
[13]
Fight nicely children.
Jon, I meant my post to be tongue in cheek.
Any offense, I'm sorry.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.02.05 06:19:00 -
[14]
shar, not sure if i count as a small or large investor, but i didn't get a mail and I'm hoping the reason why is because the shares are held in the corp wallet not my personal one (FTEK).
If you did want to send me the update, drop me line and i'll forward my email over :)
----------------------
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.05 13:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
shar, not sure if i count as a small or large investor, but i didn't get a mail and I'm hoping the reason why is because the shares are held in the corp wallet not my personal one (FTEK).
LOL, Treelox joked with me about this last night. I had to inform him that the rest of us all got together and decided, "No, Ftek and Tree.... just no." But, in seriousness, all shares held in corporate wallets were still pretty clear who the original purchaser were. Without being specific, you are in the 5th stage group of share holders. Hmmmm.... 2 x 20% Shareholders 1(+1) x 6% Shareholders 1 x 5% Shareholders 3 x 3% Shareholders 8 x 1.5% Shareholders FTEK is in the last group at 1.5%. As you can see the number of people that have to be included as I relax the inclusion criteria just means that many more leaks, as I view society in Eve. While I can operate in spite of any specific attempts at disruption, who really wants to enact alternate methods? Originally by: Omber Zombie
If you did want to send me the update, drop me line and i'll forward my email over :)
I, personally, have no problem with this mate. I'll happily email you a copy of the current ledger and communiques I've shared with the others. Your ... integrity is without question. PS: the +1 in 6% shareholders is myself however I don't count myself in such decisions. Conflicts of interest and all that.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Dohkar
Amarr
Statler and Waldorf LLC
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Posted - 2008.02.05 15:20:00 -
[16]
Thanks for the updates, Shar.
Can't say I'm thrilled about being left "out of the loop", but I can understand your concerns about leaks. (although I'd love to see the spreadsheet!  ) I guess I'll wait the week for the public report.
Originally by: Shar Tegral"
While Benvie and myself have some distinct ideas on direction and management I have simply presented the report to this quorum and laid some simple questions down. In essence, I'm open to input, advice, criticism, and confirmations without reservations nor preconditions.
If any major directional changes are made, is there a plan to put the changes before the entirety of the shareholders? (either for an official vote or not) I would think(?) that at least a new basic business plan would be put out, since the old one (at least the Trinity part  ) is mostly finished.
---
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Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Without being specific, you are in the 5th stage group of share holders. Hmmmm....
lol, np's mate, I new i wasn't a large holder, just wasn't sure where i was in the scheme of things :)
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FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2008.02.07 04:12:00 -
[18]
Any chance of just wrapping this up soon? I would like to get my investment and profit from that investment back.
This has been dragging on for long enough I think.
It's better then Quafe!
Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.07 04:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Any chance of just wrapping this up soon? I would like to get my investment and profit from that investment back.
This has been dragging on for long enough I think.
Do you think this is being kept going for absolutely no reason?
It seems people keep saying things along the lines of what you just did. But it's already been covered that things are still being sold off as quickly as is financially responsible.
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.07 05:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Any chance of just wrapping this up soon? I would like to get my investment and profit from that investment back.
This has been dragging on for long enough I think.
If your ready to pull out, I believe Shar is more than happy to buy back your shares at the current estimated NAV.
--
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.07 06:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
This has been dragging on for long enough I think.
You may evemail me regarding cashing out your shares at our mutual convenience. I can't be rid of you fast enough.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.07 15:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I can't be rid of you fast enough.
Last night was a bad night for me. Kept waking up every 15 minutes or so, insomnia and what not. So I wasn't exactly in my most reasonable mood. Never the less, it was wrong of me to say the above as it is also untrue. I can be evemailed regarding buy out, I can be e-mailed as well. shar_tegral at comcast dot net. You would not be the first to cash out and I can honestly say that the offers are never weighted one way or the other. To update the status on the discussion: FastLearner's idea is one that seems to strike the balance of responsibility to the fund and satisfying some of the investor frustration. The gist is to actually issue a partial NAV dividend. So I've been making arrangements to get an alt free to join RDIR and do a dividend issuance. It will be a dividend equal to the initial investment amount. (1M per share) Once this dividend is issued any one still seeking to completely cash out is still more than welcome. NAV will of course be adjusted to reflected to the value but ... well the math is simple enough. PS: Yay for sleep and coffee. Just remember the proper order for the two.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.07 18:26:00 -
[23]
That is an excellent idea to pay out dividends up to 100% of initial payment. We can then start cashing out as we choose.
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Jon Sanng
Minmatar
Conducti
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Posted - 2008.02.12 01:57:00 -
[24]
Am I really the only person getting impatient?
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.12 03:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jon Sanng
Am I really the only person getting impatient?
I believe that Shar will be more than happy if you contact him ingame and ask for a full buyback. Just the impression I have gotten from past post.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.12 03:20:00 -
[26]
I'm curious about the status of that 100% dividend that was discussed.
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.12 03:27:00 -
[27]
Edited by: FastLearner on 12/02/2008 03:28:32
I'm not impatient for a dividend. I am ,however, slightly bemused as to why Shar needs to get an alt into RDIR to pay out a dividend. I'm pretty sure Ben already has an alt there - so with the maximum dividendable (is that a word?) amount being 2.1b there's zero risk of fraud if Shar transfers the dividend 2.1b at a time to Ben and trasfers each subsequnt chunk after Ben's dividended out the previous one. If it's taking a week to get an alt into a corp (took me 1 day to make a new alt , new corp + vote on shares when I had a problem with Fury Bank) then it seems effort and time (which equals money) is needlessly being wasted.
I'd also propose that the end date, for the purpose of calculatin Benvie's share of profits be set as the date at which principal + growth to the the point at which Benvie is due returns has been paid out.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:43:00 -
[28]
Almost immediately after Jon posted a request I evemailed him an update. I'm not against explaining myself however internet connection has been a bit dodgey. With the snow and ice storms up here power and internet connections get that way. (Not to mention my slip and fall incident.)
There is no delay other than arranging things so that I can do the dividend issuance directly. I'm profuse in my pushing Benvie forward as the success behind this ipo. I'm also doing all I can to distance Benvie from some very valid investor frustrations. Frustrations that are mine to deal with, bear, and resolve. My choice, you can scream all you want about it... at me.
As to the alt thingey... um, No.
Shortened my response to this: I don't not use alts in any disposable manner. I only have two accounts and have long stated I won't be going to a third though affording it is easy. Eve is addictive enough without me stringing up a third IV bag to my arm and pumping for what it is worth.
Also, my credibility is partly based on the fact that all of my toons are matters of record in various places. I have not changed them and they are mostly as ancient as I am (2003). I might not directly advertise who they all are (widely) but I also don't try to hide them either. To do this dividend, in fact, my very private one is being disclosed. (He's the one I log on to be in Eve without getting convo's or anything - My antisocial moods per se.)
In this regard I am a quantifiable element. I only have two accounts, I don't play alt posting / alt pirating / alt scamming / or pretty much any alt type games. It might be more trouble to refuse to pick another account or alt to do things but to me it is worth the trouble than the doubts.
So... there.
PS: After this weekend's drama it was a good idea to simply avoid the forums. I just thought I'd point out why I did not respond to this immediately though this text has been ready for a good 12 hours or so.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.17 02:07:00 -
[29]
In case anybody missed it, 15*2 = 30 bil ISK was issued already as dividends (the initially raised cash).
So far, everybody got back what they put in, and all that's coming later on (on liquidation day) is "pure profits".
It's important in case you want to trade RDIR stock, so I thought I'd mention it.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.17 04:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T
In case anybody missed it
No one worth noting missed it in the least.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean.
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