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Arkedon
Caldari
Pegasus Knights
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Posted - 2008.02.05 19:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Arkedon on 05/02/2008 19:32:47
Just some idle musings here. I was thinking of how to calculate how much an in-game item actually costs in relation to the real world.
Feel free to add your ideas, and I actually need real data from miners to fill in my values so we get an accurate tab.
Items in game cost isk, and the most basic way to make isk is to mine. So for this excersize lets consider the veldspar market as the focal point.
1. Average cost of veldspar on the market
2. Average amount of veldspar mined per hour
3. Operating costs/expenses per hour (crystals, lost drones, etc)
4. How many hours spent mining veldspar
Now for our excersize, "labor cost" is the real world income that a player would have been making if they were not playing the game. For example, working at a part time job, etc. In most cases, you cannot be working at a real world job while still mining in-game. So the "labor cost" is the potential real world income you sacrifice, in order to mine in-game.
Now, macro/software miners will break this formula because they basically incur no "labor cost" when going about their mining runs. They can continue to have their toons in-game automatically mining while they go about in the real world doing whatever.
So here's an example: (Again, values are not yet accurate - will update once you kind folks update me with proper values).
Veldspar mined per hour: 50,000
Veldspar market value: 10 isk
Assuming Minimum wage = labor cost (US$7.00 average for USA)
Isk/hour = 50,000 veldspar x 10 isk = 500,000 isk
Dollar cost of isk : 500,000 isk / US$7.00 = 71428.57 isk for every US$1.00
So based on the above example, a ship that costs 90mil isk has the real world equivalent of US$1260.00  if the player's sole income is the veldspar market.
That seems a bit too high.
The numbers are way off right now, but as soon as we collect more reliable data we will start to see a better picture.
Mission running, bounty collection, etc, are other sources of income. And they are more likely more profitable than strictly veldspar mining, but their variables are more difficult to control and predict.
So I will start with the veldspar market first.
Again, this is just a mental excersize for fun.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.02.05 19:42:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
71428.57 isk for every US$1.00
So spending 100$ on ISK will get you 7,1 million?
I think this figure is wrong somehow.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.05 19:43:00 -
[3]
Well, you must have miscalculated something, and for starters, that's the "veldspar mined per hour" part.
It takes very little, if almost no effort whatsoever to get to 350k veldspar units per hour (35k m^3, or 583 m^3 per minute), and for the "more experienced" people almost 1 mil units per hour (100k m^3) is not unusual.
The income levels of a "newbie", you could at best compare to those of a teenage mowing lawns or somesuch.
For a "minimum wage" job equivalent, you'd have to look at chars that are at least a month old or so.
So, let's say 5 mil ISK per hour as a "minimum wage" income, because it neatly scales with your calcs at a 10:1 ratio.
A Raven would then cost something more akin to 126$, which is still a lot, but, "meh".
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Arkedon
Caldari
Pegasus Knights
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Posted - 2008.02.05 19:55:00 -
[4]
Thanks for the input.
Here's the new list of values:
Veldspar mined per hour: 500,000
Veldspar market value: 10 isk
Assuming Minimum wage = labor cost (US$7.00 average for USA)
Isk/hour = 500,000 veldspar x 10 isk = 5,000,000 isk
Dollar cost of isk : 5,000,000 isk / US$7.00 = 714285.714 isk for every US$1.00
The adjusted values gives the dollar much more buying power. But you are right, a 90mil isk ship would still fall in the neighborhood of US$126.00
Wow, imagine how much the titans would have cost.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.05 19:57:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DubanFP on 05/02/2008 20:04:09
Going by veldspar mining rates of a newb doing for fun is rediculous. It's by no means any sort of standard. Like offering your car washing service then ****ing in the guy's gas tank in front of him and expecting anyone to ever come back again.
It's an service item that isn't like convential work-->cash. If you use GTCs you realize ISK's value is completely dependant on what people are willing to pay for it. The best way to figure this out is to see how much isk people are willing too pay for a given thing.
Look at GTCs. People are willing to pay 200 million isk for 1x 30 day GTC, because it's what people are willing to pay and there is no minimum wage value raising the prices that is the price of the GTC. The GTC's real world value is $15. Therefore $15 is worth 200M isk because it's what it does get sold for.
See this for something i did some time ago on it. I found that a titan's value is roughly equivilent to a moderately valued car.
___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.02.05 19:59:00 -
[6]
Quote:
costs in relation to the real world.
Are you trying to calculate how much isk would be worth given that no isk-gathering activity should net lower than the minimum wage?
or
Are you trying to calculate how much an iskgathering activity actually is netting given that you could sell the isk for real currency?
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Arkedon
Caldari
Pegasus Knights
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Posted - 2008.02.05 20:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Arkedon on 05/02/2008 20:04:47
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Quote:
costs in relation to the real world.
Are you trying to calculate how much isk would be worth given that no isk-gathering activity should net lower than the minimum wage?
or
Are you trying to calculate how much an iskgathering activity actually is netting given that you could sell the isk for real currency?
Not really about buying/selling isk with real world currency.
I'm just trying to get an idea how much "real world income" we would be giving up if we chose to stay in-game and make isk for ourselves.
I'm just using the minimum wage as a reference, since it is not realistic to assume that everyone makes minimum wage. It just makes for a more uniform baseline for calculations.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.02.05 20:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Arkedon
Not really about buying/selling isk with real world currency.
I'm just trying to get an idea how much "real world income" we would be giving up if we chose to stay in-game and make isk for ourselves.
I'm just using the minimum wage as a reference, since it is not realistic to assume that everyone makes minimum wage. It just makes for a more uniform baseline for calculations.
I see.
The opportunity cost (financially) for spending time in Eve making money that has no real value IRL instead of working for minimum wage = minimum wage. Is it not?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.05 20:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2008 20:54:19
Originally by: Cpt Fina
The opportunity cost (financially) for spending time in Eve making money that has no real value IRL instead of working for minimum wage = minimum wage. Is it not?
Well, sort of, but he brings it to the extreme, as in "idly making ISK in EVE" = "minimum wage in the USA".
If he'd be serious about it, he'd equate the opportunity cost of a seasoned ISK collector with minimum wage.
So, instead of (roughly) 5 mil ISK per hour as a baseline, he should be using 20 mil the very least, if not more than 40 mil ISK per hour.
So, his "labor value" after the initial /10 adjustment due to forgetting veldspar is 0.1 m^3 (not 1 m^3), should undergo another /4 or even /8 adjustment.
So, much more akin to 25$ for a Raven, or, heck, 15$ for a Raven.
You actually end up very close to GTC prices already, not two orders of magnitude away as his initial estimate.
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Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.02.05 21:01:00 -
[10]
I'd rather like to see how much ISK were in dollars/euros taken from their economy and ours so we know how rich we capsule pilots are.
someone take prices for food, cars, stuff and calculate isk->rl money on a "realistic" way?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.05 21:04:00 -
[11]
If you put it that way, it's more like 1 ISK = 2 USD.
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Arkedon
Caldari
Pegasus Knights
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Posted - 2008.02.06 00:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
I'd rather like to see how much ISK were in dollars/euros taken from their economy and ours so we know how rich we capsule pilots are.
someone take prices for food, cars, stuff and calculate isk->rl money on a "realistic" way?
It would be really hard to equate actual values of commodities between EVE and the real world. There needs to be an established (and stable) reference for an exchange rate between EVE and the real world economy.
Someone brought up the GTC cost in isk.
So if we agree to use a 30-day GTC as an exchange rate indicator:
Average Cost of 30-day GTC in isk: 200mil ??
Average Cost of 30-day GTC in US$: $12.95 ??
So the exchange rate based on that would be: 200mil/$12.95 = 15,444,015.44 isk per US $1.00.
My initial calculations were based on pure labor. When you inject the GTC into the equation it tends to make it more complicated because now more real world $$$ are being thrown into the mix. Someone had to buy the GTC with real world currency in the first place.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.06 00:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: XoPhyte on 06/02/2008 00:34:21
Originally by: Akita T
Well, you must have miscalculated something, and for starters, that's the "veldspar mined per hour" part.
It takes very little, if almost no effort whatsoever to get to 350k veldspar units per hour (35k m^3, or 583 m^3 per minute), and for the "more experienced" people almost 1 mil units per hour (100k m^3) is not unusual.
The income levels of a "newbie", you could at best compare to those of a teenage mowing lawns or somesuch.
For a "minimum wage" job equivalent, you'd have to look at chars that are at least a month old or so.
So, let's say 5 mil ISK per hour as a "minimum wage" income, because it neatly scales with your calcs at a 10:1 ratio.
A Raven would then cost something more akin to 126$, which is still a lot, but, "meh".
I knew once I read the title I would find Akita in here.  . Though you came in at number 3, you must be slipping!
Sorry I have nothing more to add to this topic, Akita will steer it in the right direction.
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Ractre
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Posted - 2008.02.06 00:46:00 -
[14]
you must also remember that capsuleers are the richest people in the galaxy.
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