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A question for all the alliances

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steveid SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:31:00 - [1] There are a lot of alliances that have a fair few blue friends out there. Quite a lot of you have pesky empire war decs from the privateers and asorted other yahoo's. My question is this: Why dont the alliances you have set to blue war dec each other, and then make it mutual. Other than the initial fee this will cost you nothing, and if you do it with enough friends all these empire corps would have to pay upwards of a billion ISK for one weeks war. Sure for the big alliances, this may not be the best thing, but for the myriad of smaller empire and 0.0 alliances .. why not? You effectivelly run the same blue on blue risk that you do in 0.0 while making small time piracy against you prohibitive at best.
Saffronique Epic Hyena Laughs	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:35:00 - [2] No one in major Alliance leadership cares about empire wars.. It keeps the plebs in 0.0 where they are needed.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:39:00 - [3] Most Alliances that are worth thier salt have alt corps not in the Alliance that take care of Empire Logistics so war decs have very little effect on us.
NichoTBE The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:55:00 - [4] Hang on, your suggesting blue alliances war dec each other? That would kinda be funny to watch during fleet battles against bob.
maihem TBC VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:03:00 - [5] we actually like the empire war decs i am told in alliance mails. apparently we get all frisky and go looking for fights in Rens of all places... I dont jog, it makes the ice cubes jump right out of my glass.
Ventro69 Caldari Manson Family SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:03:00 - [6] Or is the OP a Privateer alt looking for more targets without having to pay for the war dec's?
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Saffronique No one in major Alliance leadership cares about empire wars.. It keeps the plebs in 0.0 where they are needed. This ________________________________________
FinrodFelagund Rome Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:06:00 - [8] I dont think I've been to empire in >6months. Most real enities that have to deal with a good amount of wardecs use alts in noob corps or alt corps.
Hardin Amarr Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:10:00 - [9] Smells like an exploit to me. - Blue alliances agree mutual war decs with each other - no cost to either side - Agree not to pew pew each other in Empire (tricky but not unenforceable) - Then due to number of 'friendly' war decs any REAL hostile war dec costs an absolute fortune due to the way the alliance war dec system is constructed. While this seems possible I think it would be against the 'spirit' of the war dec system and would probably be outlawed very quickly - although CCP could also change the rules so that 'mutual' war decs do not contribute to the war dec total and therefore do not push up the cost of war decs... ------------------------------
Captain Thunk Captain Morgan Society	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:25:00 - [10] Originally by: FinrodFelagund I dont think I've been to empire in >6months. Most real enities that have to deal with a good amount of wardecs use alts in noob corps or alt corps. Seems a number of people have replied with a similar theme. Is this entirely fair? what's the point in a war dec system if it's so easily circumnavigated. It's not like it's inexpensive to just add the names of alt corps onto the war bill is it? Seems it's getting to the point where too many don't think twice about exploiting anymore, it's just taken for granted now
Flow Befort GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:04:00 - [11] Edited by: Flow Befort on 06/02/2008 13:03:55 Originally by: Hardin Smells like an exploit to me. - Blue alliances agree mutual war decs with each other - no cost to either side - Agree not to pew pew each other in Empire (tricky but not unenforceable) - Then due to number of 'friendly' war decs any REAL hostile war dec costs an absolute fortune due to the way the alliance war dec system is constructed. While this seems possible I think it would be against the 'spirit' of the war dec system and would probably be outlawed very quickly - although CCP could also change the rules so that 'mutual' war decs do not contribute to the war dec total and therefore do not push up the cost of war decs... 1- Set +10 standings 2- Set mutual wardecs 3- overview settings -> colortags -> select wardecs -> move down x10 until it is positive standing +10 thus surrendering visual priority 4- instruct members to know that negative standings -10 always coincide with wardecs 5- set true wardecs -10 6- reserve -5 for real non-wardec hostiles 7- watch as none of the above even matters as half your members won't bother and cause billions of diplomatic incidents 8- ragequit as a diplomat.
Godolphin Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:09:00 - [12] "SPYS SAPPEN MAH SENTRY"
Darko1107 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:11:00 - [13] Thats actually a really good point. But i really doubt any alliance can be bothered to do it with the current people that are wardeccing them.
Flow Befort GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:15:00 - [14] Edited by: Flow Befort on 06/02/2008 13:16:20 Originally by: Darko1107 Thats actually a really good point. But i really doubt any alliance can be bothered to do it with the current people that are wardeccing them. If goonswarm's wardeccers are any indicator, it was more effort than it's worth just reading this thread, much less actually doing something about them.. (I didn't read the thread)
K'reemy G'udness The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:27:00 - [15] Frankly I'm just sick of seeing my evemail icon flash all the time. Between stupid pubbie wardecs and the million pos's a day GS puts up, I never know when I have legit mail. Well actually I do. Never, cuz no one likes me . I think some privateer guys chased me for 6 systems once. I found it entertaining tbh. Most of the time I just use an alt to bring stuff to the front so I can make angry cheddar. ---
Vahl Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:35:00 - [16] Empire runs would be boring if I didn't have to watch out for Privateers. I fancy myself as a dashing smuggler in the vein of Han Solo running blockades against the evil oppressors of the Hooch empire. Don't try to steal my fun. _________________________________________________________ ==REDSWARM FEDERATION== ...because we hate your f**king guts.
TroNaaR Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Saffronique No one in major Alliance leadership cares about empire wars.. It keeps the plebs in 0.0 where they are needed. THIS
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:32:00 - [18] Empire is actually very dangerous to 0.0 people. How many people have forgotten their sec status and got concorded? How many people forget about sentries and aggro someone? Its a place best avoided on your main.
Flow Befort GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Hrin Empire is actually very dangerous to 0.0 people. How many people have forgotten their sec status and got concorded? How many people forget about sentries and aggro someone? Its a place best avoided on your main. zero times... you should stick to decloaking titans (b'___')b
Pans Exual	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:52:00 - [20] The price of a new wardec is not affected by mutual wars.
zykerx Lo0nEy To0nS R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Pans Exual The price of a new wardec is not affected by mutual wars. we got a winner . "MY COMMENTS IN NO WAY REFLECT MY CORP OR ALLIANCE"
Maraude Fury Minmatar Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive	Posted - 2008.02.07 00:37:00 - [22] Didn't you guys hear, the major alliance's out there use alts to "hire" Privateers to War Dec them, so their members stay in 0.0. All the cool alliance leaders do it... really.. Dictator: Scorched Earth Directive Alliance Lets Burn It All Down
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.02.07 00:58:00 - [23] tbh being in the coalition is crap, most of 0.0 is blue until bob is dead and then we can have fun again. but if we were at war with all the douche bags that im not allowed to shoot in 0.0 then standings be damned, I would gank every freighter I saw didnt want those blues anyway etc.
SunglassesInSpace GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.07 01:46:00 - [24] Originally by: umop 3pisdn tbh being in the coalition is crap, most of 0.0 is blue until bob is dead and then we can have fun again. but if we were at war with all the douche bags that im not allowed to shoot in 0.0 then standings be damned, I would gank every freighter I saw didnt want those blues anyway etc. hi larry wong
ceyriot Minmatar Crimson Rebellion	Posted - 2008.02.07 01:52:00 - [25] Originally by: K'reemy G'udness Frankly I'm just sick of seeing my evemail icon flash all the time. Between stupid pubbie wardecs and the million pos's a day GS puts up, I never know when I have legit mail. Well actually I do. Never, cuz no one likes me . I think some privateer guys chased me for 6 systems once. I found it entertaining tbh. Most of the time I just use an alt to bring stuff to the front so I can make angry cheddar. i think that was me and a friend... Sig removed. Political references are not permitted in signatures. If you would like further details please email [email protected]. ~Saint
ceyriot Minmatar Crimson Rebellion	Posted - 2008.02.07 01:54:00 - [26] Originally by: umop 3pisdn tbh being in the coalition is crap, most of 0.0 is blue until bob is dead and then we can have fun again. but if we were at war with all the douche bags that im not allowed to shoot in 0.0 then standings be damned, I would gank every freighter I saw didnt want those blues anyway etc. srry bout double post, but i can actually see this coming, once the common enemy (BoB) is dead, the coalition is going to collapse, they're going to duke it out for a few months/weeks, then....we'l see. Sig removed. Political references are not permitted in signatures. If you would like further details please email [email protected]. ~Saint
Stinkywrix GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.07 02:12:00 - [27] Originally by: ceyriot Originally by: umop 3pisdn tbh being in the coalition is crap, most of 0.0 is blue until bob is dead and then we can have fun again. but if we were at war with all the douche bags that im not allowed to shoot in 0.0 then standings be damned, I would gank every freighter I saw didnt want those blues anyway etc. srry bout double post, but i can actually see this coming, once the common enemy (BoB) is dead, the coalition is going to collapse, they're going to duke it out for a few months/weeks, then....we'l see. this is a new and exciting revelation
FinrodFelagund Rome Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.02.07 06:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Captain Thunk Originally by: FinrodFelagund I dont think I've been to empire in >6months. Most real enities that have to deal with a good amount of wardecs use alts in noob corps or alt corps. Seems a number of people have replied with a similar theme. Is this entirely fair? what's the point in a war dec system if it's so easily circumnavigated. It's not like it's inexpensive to just add the names of alt corps onto the war bill is it? Seems it's getting to the point where too many don't think twice about exploiting anymore, it's just taken for granted now You can often get easy ganks in empire because there are a lot of stupid and/or inatentive people in EVE. But other then the high sec indy ganking of nubs and whatnot it allows for entities to fight in systems in which they can dock. For instance entities often wardec smashskill and base out of oij. They can dock and get whatever ships they want there or refit, flee to safety without flying through a camp or deeper into enemey territory and no fear of having a 300 man blob jump bridge right on to you. Basically what it means is you can fight in systems where the enemy does not have any advantages over you and lowsec guns wont interfere (I dont think). You can hurt an alliances unwarry or noob members, and detract from those type of people. But for alliance size logistics for things that matter, for the most part wardecs will be avoided by use of alts. TBH its a pretty stupid system, unless a war is mutual there should be absoultly no empire pvp outside of ganking. Wardeccing somone has nothing to do with actually going to war with them and all to do with bribing concord not to care! IMHO entities should also be allowed to bribe concord to care. But yeah empire sucks and is too many jumps from where I live to bother.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.02.07 08:51:00 - [29] Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 07/02/2008 08:53:11 Originally by: ceyriot srry bout double post, but i can actually see this coming, once the common enemy (BoB) is dead, the coalition is going to collapse, they're going to duke it out for a few months/weeks, then....we'l see. Seriously that has been the plan from when the RSF first napped the northern blob, once bob is done, we all reset standings and the weak alliances that have been allowed to breed due to most of eve being blue to them are going to get torn up from the floor up BOOYAH I'm looking at you: KOS Hydra Bruce Drone alliances Bunch of others who are useless... Though sadly, the carebear alliances REALLY love this coalition stuff so I can see big chunks of it banding together to form blobs of tears which will eventually form lakes that we can harvest from. Still, it will be interesting thats for sure, even alliances like trium have a No Pos War policy with their red neighbors, once this is over most of that crap should be undone. My only other hope is that we do the job right and follow bob around poaching them until they split up rather than starting to fight each other (well... other than the crap alliances, they might keep us entertained till we're sure bob is down and out?)
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.07 11:41:00 - [30] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Seriously that has been the plan from when the RSF first napped the northern blob, once bob is done, we all reset standings and the weak alliances that have been allowed to breed due to most of eve being blue to them are going to get torn up from the floor up BOOYAH I'm looking at you: KOS Hydra Bruce Drone alliances Bunch of others who are useless... Though sadly, the carebear alliances REALLY love this coalition stuff so I can see big chunks of it banding together to form blobs of tears which will eventually form lakes that we can harvest from. Still, it will be interesting thats for sure, even alliances like trium have a No Pos War policy with their red neighbors, once this is over most of that crap should be undone. My only other hope is that we do the job right and follow bob around poaching them until they split up rather than starting to fight each other (well... other than the crap alliances, they might keep us entertained till we're sure bob is down and out?) So what you are saying is that a couple of alliances are going to stick together and then pick off other alliances one after another? If they are as weak as you say, why don't you just man up and go head to head with them? I mean, it's not like you could lose to someone like KOS or BRUCE, is it? The only thing that would give most of the coalition any sort of respect would be if you all reset each other. A big free-for-all in 0.0. Otherwise you'll just continue to be nap-monkeys. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Royaldo Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.07 12:43:00 - [31] respect from a swede. thats gotta be worth something.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.07 12:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Royaldo respect from a swede. thats gotta be worth something. Respect is everything in Sweden. We're cool like that. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:11:00 - [33] Actually, I support the OP's suggestion. Simply because it would be a nice exploit to counter the exploit that PrivateRears did earlier. I don't think our alliance would participate, but I'd love to read all the whine threads that would be started by PrivateRears.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:22:00 - [34] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Royaldo respect from a swede. thats gotta be worth something. Respect is everything in Sweden. We're cool like that. -----------
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.08 03:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Ventro69 Or is the OP a Privateer alt looking for more targets without having to pay for the war dec's? Ummm... nope. We are doing just fine without shilling at this time. But I am not above that either Concord punishes people, it does not protect them

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