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Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.29 11:36:00 - [1] Edited by: Rancid Mare on 29/03/2004 11:38:24 what gives ? if the servers are in the UK why is traffic being sent all around the world ? the given ip of the server(s) is 157.157.139.10 this is without argument routed via nIceland. if the servers are in nIceland why dont you just say so, rather than trying to make out they are not. im assuming no one whould be stupid enuf to have their games servers based in a cutting edge data house in docklands and then some sort of authentication server based in a considrable less robust network on the other side of the world. as this is the only way i can see the servers being in the UK but log-on data is routed via nIceland. whould they ? if this is the case you ought to sack your network manager and employ an inflatable doll. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
MATANDO	Posted - 2004.03.29 12:33:00 - [2] I must say that I find this interesting as well. Btw would it be possible to display a list with all the ips which are used by eve? Handy for firewall properties. ------------------------------ Audiofreaks ------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.03.29 13:28:00 - [3] some one planing cuiside atack on servers? or u got 3 m8ts whit hair dyer boosting ur strengh while u destroy the servers whit smartSticks -------------------------------------------
MATANDO	Posted - 2004.03.29 14:03:00 - [4] Well a simple Ethereal program can supply you with the urls if you are planning to go to the trouble of attacking their servers. I however am only interested in playing the game and my firewall sometimes tends to block an ip here and there ;-) so a list of ip's my firewall needs to let trough would be handy and less time consuming. ------------------------------ Audiofreaks ------------------------------
Xavier Perez	Posted - 2004.03.29 14:49:00 - [5] london
Daley	Posted - 2004.03.29 15:15:00 - [6] Xavier, there wasn't really that much to read, so why didn't you read before posting --------------------------------------------- Yeah yeah, yadda yadda yadda
Totalyreacall	Posted - 2004.03.29 15:52:00 - [7] This topic smells like hackers
Swift	Posted - 2004.03.29 16:05:00 - [8] Edited by: Swift on 29/03/2004 16:07:55 I obviously can't answer this specific question (and the original post is more than a little.. hmm, so even if one could...) but in terms of just general performance levels, these is little question that the fact I live in North West London makes a world of difference in terms of the lack of lag that is sometimes experienced by other players. So for once living in the U.K actually is benefit to playing one of the top mmporgs. Would would have thoght! :) ----- --- 'The truth about low sec space is that it reveals humanity - the 'essence' of all the races, in its purest form. A place where Concord no longer polices or protects, 'human nature' thrives in all its distilled destructive self-serving glory. Welcome to hell ladies and gentlemen, welcome to what it really is to be human.' -Swiftare 'Swift' Sarum.
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.29 16:17:00 - [9] Edited by: Sally on 29/03/2004 16:23:13 Quote: Edited by: Rancid Mare on 29/03/2004 11:38:24 what gives ? if the servers are in the UK why is traffic being sent all around the world ? the given ip of the server(s) is 157.157.139.10 this is without argument routed via nIceland. if the servers are in nIceland why dont you just say so, rather than trying to make out they are not. im assuming no one whould be stupid enuf to have their games servers based in a cutting edge data house in docklands and then some sort of authentication server based in a considrable less robust network on the other side of the world. as this is the only way i can see the servers being in the UK but log-on data is routed via nIceland. whould they ? if this is the case you ought to sack your network manager and employ an inflatable doll. Quote: 1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms my.router [192.168.0.1] 2 15 ms <10 ms 16 ms bsn5.ber.qsc.de [213.148.128.15] 3 <10 ms 16 ms <10 ms core1.ber.qsc.de [213.148.130.161] 4 16 ms 15 ms 31 ms core1.dus.qsc.de [213.148.139.229] 5 16 ms 31 ms 16 ms hsa1.dus1.gig9-0.118.eu.level3.net [62.67.36.77] 6 16 ms 15 ms 32 ms ae-0-19.mp1.Dusseldorf1.Level3.net [195.122.168. 193] 7 31 ms 31 ms 16 ms so-3-0-0.mp1.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [212.187.128. 30] 8 31 ms 16 ms 31 ms so-10-0.hsa2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [195.122.136. 162] 9 31 ms 16 ms 32 ms unknown.Level3.net [212.162.47.126] 10 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms ge-1-3-0-bcr3.fra.cw.net [195.2.3.53] 11 47 ms 31 ms 47 ms bcr3.tsd.cw.net [195.2.1.15] 12 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms iar1-loopback.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.210.7] 13 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 7.6] That's my trace route (tracert 157.157.139.10) to the IP my ethereal is printing while being in game. From the host names: cw.net smells like Cable & Wireless and the Thames isn't in Iceland as far as I know (unless the world order changed). I don't know much about routing, neither I am familiar with the organisation of the european IP networks, but with a bit of common sense you can find out that C&W is Icelandic Telecom's business partner. No need to start such a rant. -- Stories: #1 --
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:18:00 - [10] Quote: No need to start such a rant. no ones ranting...just interested to know what the deal is. however i did afford a slight chuckle to myself. Sally telling me not to rant...LOL thats class that is... Quote: cw.net smells like Cable & Wireless for sure... Quote: Thames isn't in Iceland i whouldnt read to much into the naming of the router. it may well be that the router is in nIceland the name is refering to its desination router/network (Thamesside.cw.net ) in this case. Quote: I don't know much about routing i know plenty..... Quote: but with a bit of common sense you can find out that C&W is Icelandic Telecom's business partner. see now this is were you let yourself down Sally. and you was doing so well at being the clever sod. what does the fact that CW are peered with Icelandic Telecom's got to do with anything ? i mean if you were somehow implying the peering to nIceland telecoms was some how suggested traffic is actualy going to nIceland. then technicaly we would be in agreement........ and we cannot have that now can we. the main gist of this post is to find out why it is a player can be based in the UK on a dirty fast connection and still get sent all round the houses to get to the servers. i can a better ping to CS servers in the USA than i can to the eve servers which are supposedly in the UK. and that just seems real odd to me. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:23:00 - [11] Edited by: Rancid Mare on 29/03/2004 18:31:54 Edited by: Rancid Mare on 29/03/2004 18:25:21 just for the record here is a trace from me... Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600] (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp. C:\Documents and Settings\MaxP>tracert 166.63.217.6 Tracing route to iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.217.6] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.254.254 2 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.123] 3 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms ge1-0-0-902.ptn-gw1.plus.net [212.159.1.155] 4 17 ms 20 ms 19 ms ge-4-1.metro1-londencyh00.London1.Level3.net [21 2.113.11.33] 5 19 ms 19 ms 20 ms so-1-3-0.gar2.London1.Level3.net [212.113.3.29] 6 19 ms 49 ms 20 ms so-7-0-0.mp2.London1.Level3.net [212.113.3.9] 7 27 ms 26 ms 26 ms so-3-0-0.mp2.Amsterdam1.Level3.net [212.187.128. 13] 8 28 ms 26 ms 26 ms ge-6-0.core1.Amsterdam1.Level3.net [213.244.165. 45] 9 26 ms 29 ms 28 ms CW-Level3.Level3.net [213.244.165.246] 10 29 ms 26 ms 26 ms bcr1-so-3-0-0.Amsterdam.cw.net [208.173.211.237] 11 42 ms 27 ms 28 ms bcr1.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.210.61] 12 27 ms 29 ms 28 ms 206.24.168.97 13 32 ms 35 ms 33 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 7.6] Trace complete. can anyone tell me why im getting bounced to amsterjam and back again ? that is if im comming back to the uk and not being forwarded onto another european countries network....like nIceland for instance ? i just read the post to make sure it was ok and it strikes me how weird that trace actualy is. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Perpello	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:29:00 - [12] I think it's because you have PlusNET as your ISP, I vaguely remember that they have unusual peering arrangements. I may be wrong though.
Daald	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:35:00 - [13] If I can throw my ideas in the bunch. Here is a Whois from arin.net. Quote: Search results for: 157.157.139.10 OrgName: General Directorate of Post and Telecommunications OrgID: GDPT Address: Armuli 25 City: Reykjavik StateProv: PostalCode: 105 Country: IS NetRange: 157.157.0.0 - 157.157.255.255 CIDR: 157.157.0.0/16 NetName: ISSIMI NetHandle: NET-157-157-0-0-1 Parent: NET-157-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Assignment NameServer: NS1.SIMNET.IS NameServer: NS2.SIMNET.IS NameServer: ICENET.ISHOLF.IS Comment: For abuse and general complaints please contact Comment: [email protected] RegDate: 1992-01-14 Updated: 2003-12-22 NOCHandle: NOC1453-ARIN NOCName: Network Operations Centre NOCPhone: 354-5506000 NOCEmail: [email protected] TechHandle: BJO29-ARIN TechName: Jonsson, Bjargmundur TechPhone: +354-5506000 TechEmail: [email protected] TechHandle: IBJ-ARIN TechName: Bjarnason, Ingvar TechPhone: +354-5506000 TechEmail: [email protected] OrgNOCHandle: NOC1453-ARIN OrgNOCName: Network Operations Centre OrgNOCPhone: 354-5506000 OrgNOCEmail: [email protected] OrgTechHandle: BJO29-ARIN OrgTechName: Jonsson, Bjargmundur OrgTechPhone: +354-5506000 OrgTechEmail: [email protected] OrgTechHandle: IBJ-ARIN OrgTechName: Bjarnason, Ingvar OrgTechPhone: +354-5506000 OrgTechEmail: [email protected] # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2004-03-28 19:15 # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. Clearly in Iceland address. I kept on losing connection to EVE servers and I noticed the break around Amsterdam. I usually get good ping to UK, so I was surprised. BTW, looking at Etherial, does EVE use UDP to send information and heartbeat information or TCP? Will check it myself if/when I get the time but it would be nice if someone can save me the work.
Red Six	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:36:00 - [14] Rancid, looking at your traceroute I would say you get sent to Amsterdam for one reason based on that: 1) Plus.net, whom appears to be your ISP doesn't have direct peering with CW.net An educated guess, from having had servers in a Level3 datacenter in the UK for about 2 years, on my part is this: 2) Level3's primary European peering seems to be in Amsterdam not London so that's where your traffic has to go reach a peering point between Level3 and Cable&Wireless. The Proxy login server used to be and may still be in Iceland. CCP has previously stated they have an STS-3(OC-3 equivalent approx 155Mbps) from the proxy to the rest of the servers in their datacenter in the UK. I personally wouldn't think of doing it that way but they may have a very valid reason that I don't know. I tend to not deride other people's network designs from the outside when I don't have all the data.
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:40:00 - [15] Quote: I think it's because you have PlusNET as your ISP, I vaguely remember that they have unusual peering arrangements. I may be wrong though. you may be right actually. i dont like plusnet as much as i dont like everyone else. LOL.... Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.29 18:57:00 - [16] Quote: Level3's primary European peering seems to be in Amsterdam not London so that's where your traffic has to go reach a peering point between Level3 and Cable&Wireless. thats sounds like a good diagnosis to me. silly why two large telecoms whould not peer at one of the major datacenters in the UK. the problem is then that this is not stricktly a CCP problem and plusnet/level 13 will argue its not their problem. is the anser then to move isp ? i whould think many people are with plusnet in the uk or atleast with ISP who use level 13 as their main carrier. anyone with UK Dsl and gets a sensible trace ? can you post trace here and also which ISP. becasue if i need to switch ISP's then so be it. Quote: I tend to not deride other people's network designs from the outside when I don't have all the data. a very wise stance methinks. dont get me wrong im not misrable 24/7... i do have a sensitive and easy going side and can approach a subject in a manner other than bull+chinashop. as with many of the posts on here (inc this one) people are not being intentionaly arsey, but more to do with the venting of frustration, which when pushed can lead to people temperarely acting in a fashion less civil then they whould normaly. im a nice bloke really....my mum says so. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Kovak	Posted - 2004.03.29 20:57:00 - [17] Quote: 13 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 At a guess perhaps that is just the name of the router and it is physically located in docklands,uk but is actually managed remotely by iceland-telecom-ltd. It's entirely possible that the game servers are stacked up in their own enclosure with their own routers...
The Q	Posted - 2004.03.29 21:13:00 - [18] Tracing route to 157.157.139.10 over a maximum of 30 hops 1 11 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1 2 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms lon1-adsl8.nildram.net [195.112.5.32] 3 12 ms 15 ms 14 ms lon1-10.nildram.net [213.208.106.195] 4 13 ms 12 ms 14 ms lon1-6.nildram.net [195.149.20.132] 5 12 ms 12 ms 13 ms 246.ge6-0.mpr1.lhr1.uk.above.net [213.161.78.109 ] 6 12 ms 14 ms 13 ms pos0-0.pr1.lhr1.uk.above.net [208.184.231.70] 7 22 ms 13 ms 13 ms zpr1-ge-2-1-0.Londonlnt.cw.net [195.66.224.69] 8 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms zcr1-ge-2-0-0.Londonlnt.cw.net [166.63.222.145] 9 13 ms 13 ms 22 ms bcr1.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.210.61] 10 15 ms 13 ms 13 ms iar1-loopback.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.210.7] 11 28 ms 25 ms 13 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 7.6] Step 11 is killing my ping times, look at a whopping 28ms :D
Myko	Posted - 2004.03.29 21:15:00 - [19] Edited by: Myko on 29/03/2004 21:22:00 Edited by: Myko on 29/03/2004 21:18:51 with NTL i only gets hits from UK (7 pings along the way). id say it was your ISP. Servers are definately located in london, devs have stated before. Tracing route to iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.217.6] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 10 ms 10 ms <10 ms my ip 2 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms swan-t2cam1-b-ge-wan34-107.inet.ntl.com [80.0.25 4.161] 3 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms swan-t2core-b-ge-wan61.inet.ntl.com [213.105.225 .145] 4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms win-bb-b-so-220-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.241] 5 20 ms 10 ms 20 ms win-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.161] 6 10 ms 11 ms 30 ms bcr2-so-7-0-0.LND.cw.net [166.63.161.229] 7 20 ms 10 ms 20 ms bcr2-so-7-0-0.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.209.205] 8 20 ms 20 ms 21 ms iar1-loopback.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.210.7] 9 10 ms 30 ms 50 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 7.6] Trace complete.
Znaei	Posted - 2004.03.29 21:39:00 - [20] I am so lost /emote goes to amazon.com and buys a 'Tracerouting for dummies' clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.29 22:15:00 - [21] Quote: Quote: 13 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 At a guess perhaps that is just the name of the router and it is physically located in docklands,uk but is actually managed remotely by iceland-telecom-ltd. It's entirely possible that the game servers are stacked up in their own enclosure with their own routers... I'm not sure, but this IP could be somewhere in North Carolina, US :-). Anyway, don't really care. My assumption is, that the servers are located in UK... -- Stories: #1 --
Helison	Posted - 2004.03.29 22:48:00 - [22] dummy-Q: how do you copy your traceroute from your dos-window to your browser? My traceroute goes from vienna through mil(ano?), paris, new york to london... Ping: 220ms :(
Red Six	Posted - 2004.03.29 23:17:00 - [23] Edited by: Red Six on 29/03/2004 23:19:58 I've been doing the networking on a large scale for little over 8 years now, including working for an ISP and have found that ISP's setup the DNS entries for routers to make things easier to troubleshoot. Looking at this last entry you have two clues as to what this router is: 13 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 7.6] 1) The Iceland Telecom reference in the FQDN (Fully Qualified Domain Name i.e. www.eve-online.com) is there because that IP is the gateway address/peering point from CW.net to Iceland Telecom's network. 2) Network Engineers like to make things simple to troubleshoot and put in a location code of some sort in the FQDNs, in the US airport codes for the nearest airport are commonly used. In this case CW.net used Thamesside(docklands area which is a new term to a colonial such as myself). Thamesside may be a name of a facility that CW.net has or just a reference point either way, it lets me know that it's in London near the river Thames. Makes it easier to troubleshoot physical errors, i.e. some moron went nuts with a backhoe, if that reference is there and can be tied to an interface on the router which lets you get the physical circuit information quickly. To copy traceroute information from a DOS window you have to right click on the blue bar with Command Prompt in it, choose the edit option, then choose mark, mark the text in question by holding the shift key and using the arrow keys, then right click on the blue bar again, choose edit again and choose copy.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.03.30 00:49:00 - [24] Quote: dummy-Q: how do you copy your traceroute from your dos-window to your browser? My traceroute goes from vienna through mil(ano?), paris, new york to london... Ping: 220ms :( this should work: tracert www.eve-online.com > trace.txt -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Cool dude	Posted - 2004.03.30 01:24:00 - [25] Ok let me clear something up, Thameside is an ip routing center belonging to cable & wireless. I know this because I work for em.
Mr Nice	Posted - 2004.03.30 01:27:00 - [26] Tracing route to iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.217.6] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms . [192.168.2.1] 2 15 ms 13 ms 12 ms loopback1.ar1.gs1.systems.pipex.net [62.241.161.247] 3 13 ms 13 ms 12 ms ge-0-0-0.cr1.gs1.systems.pipex.net [62.241.161.90] 4 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms GigabitEthernet4-0.GW3.LND2.ALTER.NET [146.188.68.233] 5 15 ms 14 ms 13 ms so-3-0-0.xr2.LND2.ALTER.NET.233.43.158.in-addr.arpa[158.43.233.110] 6 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms so-1-1-0.TR1.LND2.ALTER.NET [146.188.7.230] 7 15 ms 30 ms 14 ms so-1-0-0.TR2.LND9.ALTER.NET [146.188.15.30] 8 13 ms 13 ms * POS2-0.BR1.LND9.ALTER.NET [146.188.7.246] 9 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms 146.188.41.46 10 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms zcr2-ge-2-1-0.Londonlnt.cw.net [166.63.222.146] 11 14 ms 15 ms 13 ms 206.24.168.121 12 15 ms 14 ms 14 ms iar1-loopback.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.210.7] 13 21 ms 17 ms 15 ms iceland-telecom-ltd.Thamesside.cw.net [166.63.21 7.6] Trace complete. Pinging 166.63.217.6 with 32 bytes of data: Reply from 166.63.217.6: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=243 Reply from 166.63.217.6: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=243 Reply from 166.63.217.6: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=243 Reply from 166.63.217.6: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=243 Ping statistics for 166.63.217.6: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 16ms, Average = 13ms I live in london, have a 1mb dsl connection, have good ping 100% of the time and still get lag. I dont think you need to worry to much tbh, but if you want to change isp's check out pipex, http://www.pipex.net/network/pipex/
Taumenka	Posted - 2004.03.30 11:11:00 - [27] Some info for the swedish ppl is found here: Eve-mail me ingame for info on "good" ISP:s that have the best peering. Here is my info on the subject anyhow. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68048&page=3 Drink StarsiÖ Are you Caldari enough?
MATANDO	Posted - 2004.03.30 11:33:00 - [28] Edited by: MATANDO on 30/03/2004 11:39:38 I have just done 2 traceroutes. 1 from work 1 from home What I allready did see with other trace routes posted here is that the last op is responsible for the biggest part of the lag. at home this is even 160ms!!!! No wonder that my connection to eve sucks p.s. For all the Dutch peeps: Ik stap binnekort over op een andere provider. Ik zit te denken aan: xs4all/demon/speedxs/cistron Als je dit leest en je hebt een adsl abbo bij een van deze kan je dan een trace route doen en die hier posten svp? Dank! ------------------------------ Audiofreaks ------------------------------
Haratu	Posted - 2004.03.30 11:37:00 - [29] If I can live with the signal travelling over approx 16000kms (probably more, someone work it out if they want) to Australia then I do not see why you guys can't live with such an insignificant amount as a couple of thousand around europe. I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century.
Taumenka	Posted - 2004.03.30 11:39:00 - [30] Quote: If I can live with the signal travelling over approx 16000kms (probably more, someone work it out if they want) to Australia then I do not see why you guys can't live with such an insignificant amount as a couple of thousand around europe. Plz can't you do a traceroute so we can see how many HOP:s you got? Take not that this can be even less then both UK, US and other European players! Drink StarsiÖ Are you Caldari enough?

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