EVE Search - Freighter - Cargo RePackaging Requirement

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Freighter - Cargo RePackaging Requirement

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.10 11:53:00 - [1] Edited by: WardogX on 10/02/2008 12:01:01 I love using my Charon on my alt.. especially when I want to move all my things from place A to place B. Its a great way to take everything (ships and all) and toss them in the freighter and move out. Compared to how it used to be before freighters existed you had to fly all your ships one at a time to the new spot you move to. Since freighters came out, rigs came out too. Most people like to put rigs on their ships to get the best benefit out of them. However, the caveat of a freighter is you cant place unpackaged items inside of the freighter... why? This means you need to manually fly all your rigged ships from place A to B.. just like back in the day. (Does this prevent an exploit that I don't undertand? If it has to do with supplying pre-rigged ships for a war effort... then you can get same effect with a bunch of packaged rigs and a bunch of packaged ships.. but your not allowed to haul unpackaged ships? By allowing unpackaged items to go in the ship doesn't mean you have to allow freighters to pick cargo up in space.. you can keep all the other rules the same. However, I don't quite fully understand the logic behind this "forced" packing requirement. I recommend you "atleast" allow unpackaged rigged ships to be placed in the freight cargo hold to make life easier. Or create some kind of new freight container that allows unpackaged ships to fit inside. (like a Ship Container) I hate the idea of having to sell all my rigged ships before a major move.. then buy base models of that ship along with new rigs (or destroy the rigs and repackage the ship) just so I can move easier. The financial loss and time involved forces you back into manually flying all your rigged ships from A to B. Anyone know why freighters are built to prevent unpackaged items from being placed inside? Anyone know if this topic has been brought up before and ccp addressed it at all? Thx in advance to all... CCP if this is 1st time your reading this.. please consider it.
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:24:00 - [2] I dont think any change like this would happen. Freighters have a specialised role, for carrying cargo, not ships. The recent changes to carriers make them the ideal boat for moving unpackaged ships around, I doubt there will be a change to cross the specialisation of a carrier and the freighter (hell, its kinda the reason for the carrier nerf in carrying cargo)
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:31:00 - [3] Ya but they said carrier was swiss army knife ... freighter/jump freighter is far from the swiss army knife profile of a carrier. In my opinion these are the ships to allow this sort of thing. Freighter transports packaged ships just fine.. and lots of them.. its just that packaging requirement that kills its overall usefullness.
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:34:00 - [4] Im not saying it wouldnt be nice, carrying combat ready ships in a freighter would be cool and save time, Im just saying that these ships have a role, and a freighters role is to haul freight, not ships, whilst a carriers role is to haul ships, not cargo. CCP are very into their specialisation, and it would be very unlike them to change things for convinience.
Felcas Minmatar Galactic Industries Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:20:00 - [5] I agree with the post owner. I am a deep role play player and I move frequently to make missions for diferent corps, also because I dont like to stay too much time in the same place. I have all my stuff divided by type so I can easily reach exactly what I want when fitting my ship, however each time I move to a new place I have to repack everything and when I arrive organize everything again THIS IS A REAL A PAIN IN THE ASS. With the advent of rigs the situation get MUCH WORST and annoying as I have to transport each ship individually to the new place making the use of freighter for transportation of my personal stuff almost useless. This is so much a hasle that I prefer to sell my ships and buy another ones in my destination, or not fit rigs at all. I dont think this have any impact on game balance and fixing the problem would just add more "life quality" to the players then anything else. CCP should make it possible to somehow allow players to use freighters to load ships and stuffs not repackaged at all. If there is some problem with balance like using the ship for other objectives just make it the way they can¦t, I am sure CCP can think on a way to fix that. Thanks Felcas Sig removed, please keep it below 24000 bytes, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus ___________________________________ I love trade - the market is my battlefield
Valator Uel Caldari Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:29:00 - [6] CCP made it like this to avoid people using rigged, cargo expanded Iteron V's to increase the space in their freighters. This should be moot now that they have the ability to restrict cargo in ships inside the cargo bay, just like carriers. And the point CCP made about carriers having the role of carrying ships is very shortsighted, because carriers cannot fly in empire space. Personally I don't think CCP has had the experience of moving 5+ rigged ships over 40 jumps back and forth. As it stands, if I want to move from one station to another I have to take a whole day to move everything, where I could have done it in an hour or two with a freighter. http://www.save-evetv.com/
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.11 05:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Valator Uel CCP made it like this to avoid people using rigged, cargo expanded Iteron V's to increase the space in their freighters. This should be moot now that they have the ability to restrict cargo in ships inside the cargo bay, just like carriers. And the point CCP made about carriers having the role of carrying ships is very shortsighted, because carriers cannot fly in empire space. Personally I don't think CCP has had the experience of moving 5+ rigged ships over 40 jumps back and forth. As it stands, if I want to move from one station to another I have to take a whole day to move everything, where I could have done it in an hour or two with a freighter. Didn't freighters come out right before rigs came out? I cant quite remember which came 1st they came out very near each other in time frame. I agree there is ways to prevent cargo inflation tricks with freighters. Perhaps a better way is a "new" temporary packaging state for ships. So that it packs up and drops all fittings and internal cargo items but preserves the life of the rigs. Also, this temporary packaging would prevent the ability over selling ship over the general market, they would need to be sold over contract just like unpacked rigged ships are now. This would allow people to move rigged ships in freighters and prevent any cargo inflation exploits within the freighter. Any thoughts?
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.11 08:48:00 - [8] We do need a way to freight rigged ships, this idea is as good as any other. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Xindi Kraid Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:04:00 - [9] I like the idea of allowing transport of unpacked ships. The way to stop cargo expander ships from breaking it would be to have ships with cargo expanders and rigs that increase space take up more space themselves. If you have expanders tat give 20m3 boost in cargo space then the ship takes up 20m3 more space . It would make sense since cargo expanders can't physically create more space from nothing.. --Bird of Prey: Forum God 1. War 2. 3. Profit
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Xindi Kraid I like the idea of allowing transport of unpacked ships. The way to stop cargo expander ships from breaking it would be to have ships with cargo expanders and rigs that increase space take up more space themselves. If you have expanders tat give 20m3 boost in cargo space then the ship takes up 20m3 more space . It would make sense since cargo expanders can't physically create more space from nothing.. In reality the cargo expansion would not even be a proble as the modules and the enlarged cargo space of industrial ships work only if the pilot is inside the ship. When the ship is not active it will hold only the basic cargo space (try it with a docked industrial, even if it is full of expanders it has only the basic hold capacity). If you load the hold of a industrial to the max, with expanders and max skills and then you pass it to someone without the skill for the expanders and max industrial skills it will be incapable of undocking. It only need to apply the same limitation when placing a unpackaged ship in the hold of a freighter: you can't move and trade it unless the cargo is whitin the limit of the basic cargo space without skills.

Xindi Kraid Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:27:00 - [11] So then why is everyone *****ing about cargo expander ships? --Bird of Prey: Forum God 1. War 2. 3. Profit
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:56:00 - [12] Edited by: WardogX on 11/02/2008 10:04:24 The reason isn't so much the cargo size of the ship; it leads to exploits with the use of unpackaged secure cargo containers if all unpackaged items are allowed to fit inside a freighter. We all know you get more cargo room inside haulers by using the multi secure containers trick. The containers internal capacity is larger then the the actual volume of the container itself, so its always been a clever way for haulers to get 30% more cargo space. Thats where choosing a solution to allow all unpackaged items to fit inside the freighter becomes an exploit that I dont think CCP wants. The freighter pilot could just use a bunch of unpackaged containers and fill them all up. A pilot could turn their Charon's 981,250m3 cargo capacity into 30% larger. (1,275,925 m3) This is why currently "Freight Containers" for use on freighters, (the only unpackaged item currently allowed in a freighter) are the exact same internal capacity as they are in volume. Whereas every other "haulable" container in the game has higher internal capacity then overall volume. This definitely says CCP doesn't want container inflating tricks in freighters.. and I am all for that. Freighters have plenty of cargo size as is. This is the core of why I suggested this proposed a new way to repackage ships while preserving the rigs. This way the ship is sealed up aand nothing can fit inside of it and cant lead to overlapping footprints of cargo space. It also gives players convenience of moving rigged ships around and stays in line with CCP's avoidance to exploiting cargo space in freighters. By simplify the concept down to "the easy thing to do is just allow all unpackaged items to fit in the freighter or all unpackaged ships" .. this idea would lead to cargo inflating tricks with container use.. or overlapping footprints of internal cargo space of a ship and overall volume of the ship. The Rig Repackaging idea prevents those potential abuses and keeps things pretty much the way they are now with added benefit to move rigged ships easier. Rig Ship Repackage Solution
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:55:00 - [13] How about this idea that wouldn't require CCP but code new functions but uses existing code: - Add a ship maintenance bay to the freighter with 0 m3 space - Add a rig slot to the freighter - Add 10 calibration to the freighter - Add a 99.9% reduction in calibration cost for Tug Boat Conversion rigs to the freighter - Add a Tug Boat Conversion rig, which reduces cargo hold by 700k m3 and increases the ship maintenance by by 700k This way you have the option to chance the specialization of the freighter from hauling goods to hauling unpackaged ships. Or CCP just adds another T2 freighter with this tug boat specialization... -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Felcas Minmatar Galactic Industries Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.12 02:16:00 - [14] I suggest this: 1-Rule that no unpacked ship can be loaded into freighter UNLESS the cargo bay is empty, however you can still load it in the freighter fully fitted. Simple, you try and the system say you must unload the cargo bay, end of story. 2-Make new smaller versions of the GENERAL FREIGHTER CONTAINER so we can organize our stuff in our hangar the way we want and move things without messing all up everysingle time we want to change station. I guess this two suggestion make cargo exploitation impossible and benefit those who honestly just want to haul personal stuffs and rigged ships. Thank you CCP and all of you for the support and please continue to bump this thread until CCP notice it. Sig removed, please keep it below 24000 bytes, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus ___________________________________ I love trade - the market is my battlefield
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:17:00 - [15] I am honestly in favor of any idea that meets the goal of hauling rigged ships in freighters. However that goal is met I am happy with. I am sure if CCP were to ever incorporate these ideas they would have to be exploit free. Everything everyone is say thus far seems to be exploit free. If anyone else has ideas they wish to throw on the table please add them in. Thx Rig Ship Repackage Solution
Poreuomai Minmatar Naval Protection Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:31:00 - [16] Originally by: WardogX One solution may be to allow for a new "secondary" alternative way to repackaging ships. Would this also avoid losing the insurance?
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:18:00 - [17] Edited by: WardogX on 12/02/2008 14:21:45 Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: WardogX One solution may be to allow for a new "secondary" alternative way to repackaging ships. Would this also avoid losing the insurance? Good question that I didn't mentioned in proposition. I think of this new repacking state should be thought of as a "temporary" packaging state since it preserves rigs. So yes it would remain insured. Unless its contracted for sale. If it is sold via contract insurance is null. Since its a temporary packaging state that cant go on regular market exploit of insurance doesn't need to be feared. It follows all of the same rules currently in place in eve for an fully unpacked rigged ship. It cant be sold on regular market and if sold on contract you lose insurance. This is also why I proposed the idea for added weight for this Freight Repackaging idea .. to give a penalty for these added benefits as a slight balance. However, I am adamant about there DOES need to still be some level of weight reduction involved. Otherwise there is not much point of implementing this feature in game at all. Examples: A fully unpacked battleship takes up around 500,000 m3 space (under or over.. depending on battleship). While all of the battleships fully packed are only are 50,000m3. At there current unpacked volume size.... even in level 5 trained charon you could only carry 1 unpackaged bs. (possibly 2 depending on ship BS types) This is why there needs to be a reduction of some kind if this is going to be added. If you cant save time moving multiple ships all at once in a slow freighter.. vs 1 at a time by hand.. there isn't much point. Here are some examples of what this new Freight Repackage volume size might be ....Something around 75,000-200,000 m3 for battleships...25,000m3-130,000m3 for cruisers.. 10,000-25,000 m3 for frigates...(of course capitals still not haulable at all). This lower volume (compared to fully unpacked volume) you might be able to allow 4-10 rigged BS's freighter packaged for transport depending on how CCP would decide to add the penalty if at all. I of course would be more of a fan of less volume penalty... the higher you get with volume penalty... the time saving reward gets less and less to even make this idea worth wild. A penalty gives a distinct disadvantage to the added new benefits of a Freight Packed ship. I think this is needed to balance the new gained advantages of keeping insurance and keeping rigs. An interesting side effect of this addition; Current freighter pilots who haul for a living might also be able to make a new found income for themselves by hauling rigged ships for 3rd parties. Rig Ship Repackage Solution
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2008.02.12 15:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Abrazzar How about this idea that wouldn't require CCP but code new functions but uses existing code: - Add a ship maintenance bay to the freighter with 0 m3 space - Add a rig slot to the freighter - Add 10 calibration to the freighter - Add a 99.9% reduction in calibration cost for Tug Boat Conversion rigs to the freighter - Add a Tug Boat Conversion rig, which reduces cargo hold by 700k m3 and increases the ship maintenance by by 700k This way you have the option to chance the specialization of the freighter from hauling goods to hauling unpackaged ships. Or CCP just adds another T2 freighter with this tug boat specialization... I like this one. It adds a New Mini-profession as well. Tug Boat Cap'n.
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Abrazzar How about this idea that wouldn't require CCP but code new functions but uses existing code: - Add a ship maintenance bay to the freighter with 0 m3 space - Add a rig slot to the freighter - Add 10 calibration to the freighter - Add a 99.9% reduction in calibration cost for Tug Boat Conversion rigs to the freighter - Add a Tug Boat Conversion rig, which reduces cargo hold by 700k m3 and increases the ship maintenance by by 700k This way you have the option to chance the specialization of the freighter from hauling goods to hauling unpackaged ships. Or CCP just adds another T2 freighter with this tug boat specialization... Its a cool idea to give that capital-esque likeness to freighters. I also like the underlying idea of attacking this concept from a different angle. The downside is a fully unpacked battleships is around 500,000 m3. Which means you will only be hauling 1 BS. I would rather fly that bs then haul it in a freighter.. much faster. Some level of volume reduction needs to be part of this rig ship transport concept or there isn't much reason to add this concept to the game. Rig Ship Repackage Solution
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:45:00 - [20] How big the ship hangar will be from the rig can be adjusted at will to make it useful. I oriented myself on the rather outdated stats found in the item database when I made that post. Stats are malleable. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds

WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.13 17:48:00 - [21] Any other freighter owners bothered by not being able to haul rigged ships? Rig Ship Repackage Solution
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP	Posted - 2008.02.16 02:38:00 - [22] Ships = Cargo though. I think that you should be able to load unpackaged ships into a frieghter to move them without having any negative repercussions. think of a ferry Weapons Linking
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.25 20:04:00 - [23] Originally by: ghosttr Ships = Cargo though. I think that you should be able to load unpackaged ships into a frieghter to move them without having any negative repercussions. think of a ferry I was playing around with EFT the other night trying to see if this could be exploited even without repackaging... afterward...I really don't understand why we cant have unpacked ships in our freighters? The mass of the unpackaged ship ALWAYS far out weights anything you could crammed inside of the cargo with any fitting or skills. Even in worst case scenario. A Mark V with max skills.. fitted with 1x t2 cargohold optimization and 2x t1 carghold optimization rigs.. as well as full set of t2 with full set of t2 cargohold in low slots yields 40,104 m3 (the most you can get in any non freighter hauler in the game) with that much space you can fit 13x Giant secure containers. Giving you an additional 11,700m3 space for a grand total of 51,804m3 that can be stuffed inside that ship. .... while that sounds like a lot.. the unpackaged mark V is 275,000 m3 .. its not even possible to exploit this cargo inside ships. The only place its possible is with smaller (non freighter) cargo containers.. its simple to keep that requirement in the game...so that they must remain packaged. But ships should be allowed to be freightered unpackaged. I really don't know why we cant do it. Rig Ship Repackage Solution
Tennents Supra eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.02.26 07:01:00 - [24] Originally by: WardogX Any other freighter owners bothered by not being able to haul rigged ships? Nope, because I can and do haul rigged ships, up to a certain size of m3. I'll leave it to you to workout how it's done though.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Venkul Mul In reality the cargo expansion would not even be a proble as the modules and the enlarged cargo space of industrial ships work only if the pilot is inside the ship. When the ship is not active it will hold only the basic cargo space (try it with a docked industrial, even if it is full of expanders it has only the basic hold capacity). If you load the hold of a industrial to the max, with expanders and max skills and then you pass it to someone without the skill for the expanders and max industrial skills it will be incapable of undocking. Yea, you can't undock but you can load it into a a carrier and undock the carrier. The freighter would have the same problem if it could hold unpackaged ships. Then again, the unpackaged ship would take up a lot more space than its expanded cargo could hold, so you wouldn't gain anything. Originally by: WardogX Good question that I didn't mentioned in proposition. I think of this new repacking state should be thought of as a "temporary" packaging state since it preserves rigs. So yes it would remain insured. Unless its contracted for sale. If it is sold via contract insurance is null. Since its a temporary packaging state that cant go on regular market exploit of insurance doesn't need to be feared. It follows all of the same rules currently in place in eve for an fully unpacked rigged ship. It cant be sold on regular market and if sold on contract you lose insurance. No reason to void the insurance if it is contracted. It isn't now, so why change it? You can contract a ship to someone else and they can later give it back and your insurance is still valid. They can even buy their own insurance contract on it and it won't invalidate yours. Originally by: Tennents Supra Originally by: WardogX Any other freighter owners bothered by not being able to haul rigged ships? Nope, because I can and do haul rigged ships, up to a certain size of m3. I'll leave it to you to workout how it's done though. You don't do it with freighters and we already discussed how carriers can't go in high sec. I say we bring back plastic wrap. You plastic wrap your ship and you get an item that when you unpackage it, you get your ship back fully fitted. The volume of the plastic wrap should be the packaged size of the ship + the size of all the modules/drones/cargo. Problem solved.
grgjegb gergerg	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Ikar Kaltin I dont think any change like this would happen. Freighters have a specialised role, for carrying cargo, not ships. The recent changes to carriers make them the ideal boat for moving unpackaged ships around, I doubt there will be a change to cross the specialisation of a carrier and the freighter (hell, its kinda the reason for the carrier nerf in carrying cargo) Uhm, ships ARE cargo. Small ones at any rate. If someone makes a production run of frigates, they might want to take them to a hub if they can sell for cheap. Less so with titans.
Tennents Supra eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Gaogan Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Tennents Supra Originally by: WardogX Any other freighter owners bothered by not being able to haul rigged ships? Nope, because I can and do haul rigged ships, up to a certain size of m3. I'll leave it to you to workout how it's done though. You don't do it with freighters ........... Yes I can. Wanna bet?


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.