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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Razor Hanzo
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:46:00 -
[1]
OK..Myself and 2 others form a fleet to hit some lvl3 missions. In the middle of Angel Extravaganza one of my fleet members gets a red flag and is instantly popped by concord.
As well all sat there in shock..we begin looking at our combat logs and found nothing that would justify such an action by concord. If its a bug I would promptly expect some form of compensation for him. At no time did he receive any warning of illegal action that he was about to commit. In either I case I want a response from someone who can shed some light on this. thnx in advance 
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:48:00 -
[2]
He may have had his warnings turned off. He may have accidentally remote repped an enemy or accidentally attacked you or the other person in the gang. Chances are good that was what happened.
Otherwise yes it's a bug.
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Abrus
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Abrus on 11/02/2008 07:55:24
Edited by: Abrus on 11/02/2008 07:54:33
i didnt do anything bad, i didnt attack the wrong target, or anything...... i was just heading to the next target and boom, im dead........ no reason, nothing...... concord just showed up and killed me....
Magarii
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Razor Hanzo
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Posted - 2008.02.11 07:59:00 -
[4]
He had no remote repper, so if the general consensus is that its a bug something needs to done now. I want an answer from someone who can tell us why this happened. He is well in his rights to be compensated for a BUG. GM's or Devs feel free to chime in at any time.
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bnogo
Caldari
Maelstrom Crew
Mournival Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:03:00 -
[5]
umm, two things, if you truly think its a bug, petition it in game, nothing can be done from here. secondly, if you want advice from fellow players, be a little more descriptive.
you said you don't have remote repper. Do you have drones? were they out? what kind did you have? are all gang members in same player made corp?
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Razor Hanzo
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:19:00 -
[6]
Yes we all three petitioned no less that a minute after my fleet mate was " Rodney Kinged" Yes we all had drones deployed but none were repper drones and no we were not in the same corp, however we all had a +7 standing towards one another if that has any bearing on it.
I feel terrible for the guy....Im at a loss
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GhostXile
Black Screen of Death
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:30:00 -
[7]
I had a friend whom had this same problem. Flagged and dead for nothing. Ofc he lost his raven and ccp denied his petition. Good luck with your petition.
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Magarii
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:38:00 -
[8]
well, i pay for this game, and for it to do random and dumb things, is wrong..... you know?
Magarii
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Razor Hanzo
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Posted - 2008.02.11 08:45:00 -
[9]
really ? wow. well thats not right. By what justification do CCP not see the wrong in not compensating someone or at least explaining why this is happening to their clients and that there are working hard to fix this apparent bug. I here by call shenanigans on CCP !
Yes shenanigans I say.
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CCP Tuxford
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:19:00 -
[10]
I doubt it was the drones, unless you specifically told them to attack. When they are choosing their targets they check if attacking will get their owner killed.
Did you have anything that is not a target locked, like a can or something, if you had is there a chance you might have shot it?
If you have bound "All Drones: engage" to some key combo (unbounded by default) is there a chance you might have accidentally hit that when your target focus was on a can or corp mate?
Did you have logistic drones out? They shouldn't repair NPC drones on their own but if there is a bug and they do then I want to know about it and if you accidentally set them on I would like to improve the warning mechanics
If this sounds like I'm trying to pin the blame on you guys then I assure you it's not. I'm not really interested in your petition I'm hunting bugs and something triggered CONCORD in this case and I want to know what.
If it makes you feel any better then once travelled 20 jumps to help Hammerhead with a mission and wound up shooting his can and getting killed by CONCORD. I did not get my ship back but at least I cheered up the GM department 
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:27:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Razor Hanzo
Yes we all three petitioned no less that a minute after my fleet mate was " Rodney Kinged" Yes we all had drones deployed but none were repper drones and no we were not in the same corp, however we all had a +7 standing towards one another if that has any bearing on it.
I feel terrible for the guy....Im at a loss
Maybe I tried salvaging a wreck and his drones attaccked it? His log will not show the action of the drones, so he would not see it there.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I doubt it was the drones, unless you specifically told them to attack. When they are choosing their targets they check if attacking will get their owner killed.
Did you have anything that is not a target locked, like a can or something, if you had is there a chance you might have shot it?
If you have bound "All Drones: engage" to some key combo (unbounded by default) is there a chance you might have accidentally hit that when your target focus was on a can or corp mate?
Did you have logistic drones out? They shouldn't repair NPC drones on their own but if there is a bug and they do then I want to know about it and if you accidentally set them on I would like to improve the warning mechanics
If this sounds like I'm trying to pin the blame on you guys then I assure you it's not. I'm not really interested in your petition I'm hunting bugs and something triggered CONCORD in this case and I want to know what.
If it makes you feel any better then once travelled 20 jumps to help Hammerhead with a mission and wound up shooting his can and getting killed by CONCORD. I did not get my ship back but at least I cheered up the GM department
basically what the man said :) there is no better advice to petition :)
oh and i bet you ran into the GM room where they answer petitions and yelled.... next patch im going to nerf you all... and thats how half of the game got nerfed :P
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This is Me |
Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:35:00 -
[13]
Any smartbombs in use?
But of course now you're just reading my sig...
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Razor Hanzo
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:39:00 -
[14]
Well first I would like to thank you for responding to this thread. I am not the one this happened too it was my fleet mate Magarii. Atm hes offline hopefully not kicking puppies.
The specifics on exactly what happened on his end im not sure of, however I know there were no logistic drones deployed also there were no cans floating around and I do know that at no time did i see him target me before this happened. Another thing i found strange was if he had commited a crime against me there by flashing red in my overview..there has been no update to my kill rights window. Hes not in it. Same as for the other member of the fleet. There must be logs that would give details to the incident.
Im sure when he logs back on hell reply and give more details. thanks again for the reply Dev 
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Razor Hanzo
Well first I would like to thank you for responding to this thread. I am not the one this happened too it was my fleet mate Magarii. Atm hes offline hopefully not kicking puppies.
The specifics on exactly what happened on his end im not sure of, however I know there were no logistic drones deployed also there were no cans floating around and I do know that at no time did i see him target me before this happened. Another thing i found strange was if he had commited a crime against me there by flashing red in my overview..there has been no update to my kill rights window. Hes not in it. Same as for the other member of the fleet. There must be logs that would give details to the incident.
Im sure when he logs back on hell reply and give more details. thanks again for the reply Dev
he didnt kill you... so you dont killrights
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This is Me |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:41:00 -
[16]
Dude.... your logs...
--
Anything I said above is subject to the standard provision:
Alts subvert it, and make it untrustworthy. |
Krashtest
Exploratory Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:06:00 -
[17]
Your standings toward one another do not mean a thing, only thing that safely allows you to work together in missions is being in the same player made corp.
What likely happened was that you cleaned up a can that was produced by his ship flagging you as a "hostile" to him and his drones decided to make you pay. Once that happens, Concorde swoops in and boom goes his ship.
You and your non-destroyed mate should check your game logs for a possible damage entry from your now destroyed mate. You probably would not have noticed it at the time, and not much damage would have been caused before Concorde had their way with him.
Once again , being in a fleet and having + standings toward eachother does absolutely nothing to prevent Concorde intervention on aggressive acts. Only being in same player made corp is 100 % effective.
And before you ask, yes this is the intended result, as some "morally challanged" individuals prey on others who are quick to accept gang invites.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:13:00 -
[18]
just roleplay a 'bizaree space phernominominom' and forget about it
SKUNK
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Ardrilian
Gallente
Glowing Goat
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:26:00 -
[19]
Cans are not the only options. Wrecks work just as great for getting yourself killed. Everyone who has done missions with a badly setup overview (showing wrecks) knows how easy it is to accidentally target a floating wreck.
Wrecks target very fast and if you have guns waiting for targets there is almost no time to stop the inevitable. As long as it is your own wrecks you're shooting it shouldn't be much of a problem other than a case of lost salvage but if you happen to shoot some of your gangmates wrecks it is a completely different story.
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Razor Hanzo
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:04:00 -
[20]
ok ... A small update.
Myself and a friend formed a 2 man fleet. After the mission was all done he bookmarks a wreck so he can salvage after i turn the mission in.
I then undock after turning the mission in and warp to fleet member to help with looting and salvage. As soon as I warp in on his position I notice that he was flagged red to me.
He said that after he salvaged the first wreck half of them turned yellow.
Fortunately he wasnt concorded like in the earlier example.
I really dont know what the problem is but im just trying to supply some data and examples of when this bug occurs. As I see it , this is something that could be exploited allowing players to pop fleetmates in empire space.
I could be wrong but I dont know....seems like an way of ganking fleetmates.
I dont know.....but ive got beer  cheers !
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Dreadchain
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:09:00 -
[21]
He was flashing red because he stole from one of your wrecks...Chances are, that on the first time he shot one of your wrecks which got him concorded. I often accidentally shoot some of my wrecks when doing missions, and it's not really a good idea to run missions with someone outside your corp :P
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Your Carebarestare wrecks Evul Piwat for 891 veldspar damage. |
RaTTuS
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:23:00 -
[22]
Yea, shooting wrecks in high sec will bring concord down on you ... I have lost rigged [when they first came out] ships to this :-(
it is sensible to have a dedicated salvage - i.e. with just tractors and salvager's on it
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:25:00 -
[23]
Can I suggest that you and your friend make a corp together? It means you can avoid all of these aggression & CONCORDE problems :)
________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Krashtest
What likely happened was that you cleaned up a can that was produced by his ship flagging you as a "hostile" to him and his drones decided to make you pay. Once that happens, Concorde swoops in and boom goes his ship..
Um...No...If the Op stoled from his friend's can and went hostile and his friend's drones came over they would beat on him with impunity. CONCORD does not get involved when someone is flashing red from can flagging.
+++++++++++++++
For the LAST time...
Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane! |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:23:00 -
[25]
CONCORD. CONCORD. not CONCORDE, CONCORD!.
Now thats out of the way, Back to the thread.
Players not in the same (Player) corp, will be treated as all nuetral to each other, regardless of what standing you all personally set to each other. Only people in the same Player Corp (the corp you all started in is an NPC corp) Can loot wrecks / cans without the "Thief" getting flagged to the Can / wreck's "Owner".
Only people in the same Player Corp can shoot each / shoot each others cans / wrecks without CONCORD getting involved.
Remote Repairing NPC's by accident will bring concord down on you like a ton of bricks, regardless of what corp you are in or what standing you have with them.
About the Yellow Wrecks, The wrecks were originally white because the "owner" of them was in the same system / undocked. The minute the "owner" of those wrecks docks, the next time he tries to salvage/tractor one they will go yellow, and he can't loot them without the "owner" (Being you is my guess) Undocking, or getting a 15minute Aggression rights counter. Neither can he use a tractor beam because the wrecks are not one of his "Player corp" mates or Present Fleet Members.
I hope this sheds some light on your issue.
Welcome to EvE |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:38:00 -
[26]
It would be cool if you could set in motion a review of the warning mechanics in gangs, Tuxford.
It really is necessary. Being in gang with one another, and/or remote repping one another completely voids all warning mechanics that might apply - press the wrong button and you are dead, no questions asked, even if you have each and every warning set to active.
I too died to this once. I had my friend locked and was repping him. I also had multiple rats targeted. I activated my 7 guns on a rat - I am fast enough with the buttons to make all of them activate at once a second later - and the rat died after 5 of them had fired. The remaining two opened fire on my friend, long after my fingers had already left the keyboard.
That was the first and last time I ran missions in a gang, and I don't intend to go back to doing it until something changes in the warning mechanics, no matter how much fun it might be. As it stands now, group PvE is less safe in highsec than it is in lowsec.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! |
Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:41:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 12/02/2008 12:43:53
Originally by: Blane Xero
About the Yellow Wrecks, The wrecks were originally white because the "owner" of them was in the same system / undocked. The minute the "owner" of those wrecks docks, the next time he tries to salvage/tractor one they will go yellow, and he can't loot them without the "owner" (Being you is my guess) Undocking, or getting a 15minute Aggression rights counter. Neither can he use a tractor beam because the wrecks are not one of his "Player corp" mates or Present Fleet Members.
Yep, was about to say the same so I'll just confirm this post.
The SAFEST thing you can do when missioning with different corps in one fleet is to make sure your warning for a criminal act has been reset.
The warning pops up when you're about to do something stupid and you can cancel it. I believe there are a few circumstances where this warning is not shown and you get concordoken but these are petitionable.
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:48:00 -
[28]
One time after loosing my ship, I quickly fitted a new one with leftover modules in my hangar.
I go out, find some rats to shoot, activate my sensor booster and target the rats. Then suddenly when the first rat is targeted, I get a Global Crim counter (was in lowsec luckily). Turns out I didn't fit a sensor booster but a sensor booster link and I was boosting the rat I had targeted...
Would this have been in highsec.... hello Concord
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.12 14:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: OneSock on 12/02/2008 14:13:05
Yeah my money is that he had wrecks on overview and/or accidentally locked and shot a wreck belonging to a different corp. I've seen my corpies do this by accident in the COSMOS hack plexs a couple of times. Easy to do.
The real question is should wreck ownership rights be enforced when in gang/fleet with other corps. I'd say no, all cans should be white while in gang. Maybe that is how it is supposed to work and where the bug is at ?
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Sandeep
Raptus Regaliter
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.12 14:58:00 -
[30]
He didn't happen to be using a remote sensor booster on a rat?
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