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Shiva information section, when can we expect it?

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DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.03.31 02:05:00 - [1] The devs stated in one of the CSM's a long while ago (maybe 3-4 back) that we were supposed to look at this webpage: http://www.eve-online.com/features/shiva/ for more updates on shiva. I've been doing just that, and so far nothing. They also stated it would be up in hopefully a week or two and its been over a month now. With about 1-2 months left until this so-called "feature patch" is released, isnt it about time we knew exactly what we were getting and waiting so patiently for? I have a lot of hopes for Shiva and I know countless others do, player owned structures were the golden promise ever since alpha. "One day you'll be able to build stations, conquer space and form empires". However, with so little time left, and so little information being given, but so many promises made, we're quickly losing faith that CCP can deliver on these promises. Countless dev blogs have been promised, and the most recent one being about SMS. Who cares about SMS.. I realize working on so many things you must have very little time to waste if you're ever going to complete it all before the promised delivery date. However, a few short words here and there, even if not on the website then a dev blog explaining how CCP intend to implement POS, and exactly what changes will be made to NPCS, market, mining, agents would go a LONG way towards easing our fears and doubts. I also realize it may still be unfinished and some problems not solved yet, but thats all the more reason to propose your ideas and listen to feedback because the community will generally come up with several good ideas on how to go about things. Please, either update that URL to include more than a rendered scene, some pretty sketches and funny captions, or blog the proposed changes one at a time because too much hope and faith is resting here on incomplete and/or inaccurate data. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.03.31 02:14:00 - [2] signed
Cabadrin	Posted - 2004.03.31 04:25:00 - [3] Shiva is coming Soon(tm) ----------------------------------------------- Coalition Kill Board
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.03.31 05:01:00 - [4] Stickeh? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.31 05:03:00 - [5] Quote: Stickeh? Check the idea lab and the sticky threads about Shiva there :-). -- Stories: #1 --
Zarthan	Posted - 2004.03.31 05:45:00 - [6] i predict shiva will come wheneverÖ _______________________________________________________ Get custom sigs and graphics done here Unforgivn Website
Sardau Kar	Posted - 2004.03.31 06:04:00 - [7] I expect Shiva to come sometime before the next ice age.I think that will do No really I got high hopes for that patch,werent they adding bombers and gunships and some ship flavour? Maybe EVE can be a bit diverse for at least a while then BS slugfests,just a month or two and I can say Iv seen something impossible . So ¦¦signed`` or whatever
Ishakaril	Posted - 2004.03.31 10:19:00 - [8] Agreed. CCP has so far shown a disregart for players wanting real information. As DigitalCommunist post, they place a few pretty pic's and some artwork on a page and say: "Don't worry! You'll get more any day now." I honestly belive CCP would earn more respect from the players if they were a little more forthcomming with information about the real situation. Players feel disrespected when they are presented wth false information and false hopes. A more clear picture, even if this is to say: "We're sorry, but it turns out Shiva was more difficult than expected. We're working on it, but our earlier estimates where probably a bit optimistic." Players will at least feel that they are "in the loop" as opposed to the resentment and lack of respect the players will feel for the developers, when they feel cheated and lied to. Ishakaril
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.03.31 10:58:00 - [9] Quote: Agreed. CCP has so far shown a disregart for players wanting real information. As DigitalCommunist post, they place a few pretty pic's and some artwork on a page and say: "Don't worry! You'll get more any day now." I honestly belive CCP would earn more respect from the players if they were a little more forthcomming with information about the real situation. Players feel disrespected when they are presented wth false information and false hopes. A more clear picture, even if this is to say: "We're sorry, but it turns out Shiva was more difficult than expected. We're working on it, but our earlier estimates where probably a bit optimistic." Players will at least feel that they are "in the loop" as opposed to the resentment and lack of respect the players will feel for the developers, when they feel cheated and lied to. Ishakaril Why do we need to be in the loop, wouldn't you prefere to have the guy who you want assigned to sending out updates just to appease some impatient player, working on the project itself? Or are you happy to have them come off the programming and set up a hotline so every day you can call them and find out how many lines of programming they have written today? The game as it is, has plenty to keep the majority happy and entertained for the moment and Shiva as far as I knew was due for May/June time. So why not just wait until a little closer to the time instead of getting all up yourself and beating their door down demanding you be kept in the loop! ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Silverlancer	Posted - 2004.03.31 11:21:00 - [10] Shiva is an ancient icelandic word meaning NEVER. Just remember that.
Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2004.03.31 11:23:00 - [11] i am totaly sure and i can guarantee, shiva will come..... before Kali ---- Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
Xin Aragon	Posted - 2004.03.31 11:29:00 - [12] Edited by: Xin Aragon on 31/03/2004 11:32:27 Edited by: Xin Aragon on 31/03/2004 11:30:46 The crux of this whole problem is, basically, that CCP should never have done anything about advertising Shiva, at least not with such concrete details and announcements. By feeding the player base with announcements of "things to come" they put their own developer team under horrible pressure. Not only does almost every player build up his or her hopes upon this "expansion", every player that has a problem or two with the game will have hopes and expectations that simply skyrocket beyond any feasible implementation. In the end, all there is left will be disappointment and disgruntled players. I know what I am talking about, I have seen it before in annother space MMORPG. A big "expansion" was announced, and oh the irony, the central focus on it was the implementation of Player Owned Structures aswell. The developers couldn't publish it on time, the player base kept on nagging, and when it was finally released it was not yet completely finished, only to give in to the forming front of players against the "company that obviously doesn't seem to care about it's customers, seeing as the expansion is still unpublished". In the end it was released, everything horribly underbalanced, the POS were a pain, plastering the space lanes wherever you go, up to fifty per sector (and those were much smaller than the ones in EVE, mind you). The hopes of the players were destroyed, nobody had any inclination to play anymore because everybody only played waiting for the expansion, and thus began the downfall of a game I thoroughly enjoyed in the past. Feeding more and more "dubious" information about the content of a planned expansion can break the spine of a community, seeing as the longer it takes to implement a patch after annoucements of content the more rumours and unconfirmed babble will spread. You wouldn't buy a house without ever being inside either, eh? I don't seriously care if CCP releases Shiva 2004 or 2100, or at all, because I have learnt my lesson, and I hope everybody who ever played the game I am talking about (those who played it will know which one) should have learnt it too. Actually I indeed hope CCP doesn't release it so soon, because right now I am very much enjoying the game as it is, and a premature implementation of a patch or "expansion" would destroy not only my gaming experience, but also that of the people I play with every day. If there are changes, then please only good ones, not changes at all costs to appease the player base. Now I am off to play EVE, and not "Placeholder for Shiva - A belated Genesis" as some others seem to be. Thank you for your attention. :)
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.03.31 14:26:00 - [13] if they didn't advertise for Shiva i would have left 2 months ago, after i realised how crappy Castor was...
PropanElgen	Posted - 2004.03.31 14:45:00 - [14] What you must realise is that all CCP cares about is making money. They dont care if they break promises as long as we all keep paying them. All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.03.31 14:52:00 - [15] Edited by: Deadflip2 on 31/03/2004 14:53:30 i agree here, we need more info.. i wanna know how much its possible to build a small base and stuff. but i gues ccp needs to tweak it since mor ethen half of the palyerbase is now new to this game... (so 2 bil for a descent base will be redicilously impossible for new players... ) i gues thats another reson they dotn wanna release it yet, i mean, with all the new players they gotta rethink some of their theorys ... --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Xin Aragon	Posted - 2004.03.31 14:53:00 - [16] Quote: if they didn't advertise for Shiva i would have left 2 months ago, after i realised how crappy Castor was... And you think Shiva would make you happier? It won't make the game completely different, just add a few more facettes to it. Quote: What you must realise is that all CCP cares about is making money. They dont care if they break promises as long as we all keep paying them. I think CCP cares about their game, and eventually about making money with it, naturally. But don't you think the best way of getting more money out of something is to make it even better?
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.03.31 14:55:00 - [17] Edited by: Deadflip2 on 31/03/2004 14:57:32 Quote: Quote: What you must realise is that all CCP cares about is making money. They dont care if they break promises as long as we all keep paying them. I think CCP cares about their game, and eventually about making money with it, naturally. But don't you think the best way of getting more money out of something is to make it even better? i think EnB has made clear that CCP doesnt really aims it "that much" of an objective, (EnB = all about the money!). offcourse they need money, but CCP also puts love in this game. it was build after a dream remember? --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Reiisha	Posted - 2004.03.31 15:25:00 - [18] People, do you really want CCP do post information that might not even be accurate when shiva actually is released? I can see the flames then... "YOU PROMISED YOU WOULD PUT THAT IN!!!" etc. CCP will release more info when it becomes available and definite, not at the development stage where things can and will change, less or more. Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming!
Macumba	Posted - 2004.03.31 15:36:00 - [19] Keep checking Amazon. You'll probably see Shiva on there for ú19.99 due September or something.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.03.31 15:40:00 - [20] Reiisha, it doesnt matter if it changes or not, at least we'll know they are working on something. And at least we'll have an idea of how they plan to go about things. I disagree that Shiva will add just a few more aspects to the game, the changes they are saying they will do are huge. Castor was much better for pvp but provided little of anything else. I'm also with Negotiator on this one, I would have been long gone if they didn't release those pictures. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.03.31 15:51:00 - [21] Quote: Reiisha, it doesnt matter if it changes or not, at least we'll know they are working on something. And at least we'll have an idea of how they plan to go about things. I disagree that Shiva will add just a few more aspects to the game, the changes they are saying they will do are huge. Castor was much better for pvp but provided little of anything else. I'm also with Negotiator on this one, I would have been long gone if they didn't release those pictures. Trouble with letting us know much more than they have already is that you will still have the people who will want more. We know Shiva is coming, we know some of the things it may contain, but I don't want them to give us all the secrets and suprises before it comes out. Where has the sense of anticipation like when you are waiting for Christmas morning as a kid. If your Dad told you everything you were getting the day before I am sure it would lose 90% of the fun. Hey may be its just me liking the fact I may have to adapt a new strategy or way of playing, when others are more keen to have the new strategy written up on a 15 page document 3 weeks prior to release. ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.03.31 16:11:00 - [22] look castor brought a few tweaks and fk all modules... Shiva on the other hand is supposed to be fun for me because instead of looking around in safespots trying to find that indy ill be assaulting industrial bases, hopefully even robbing the contents...
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.31 17:18:00 - [23] regardless of what makes it or not, though i wish for many things to show up, i just want shiva to be better then caster release, in all the area's not saying that caster was who knows how bad but it was a disappointment in many areas and how it got released as well as the content, bugs etc... support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Siddy	Posted - 2004.03.31 17:26:00 - [24] EVE has just turned into C&C OMIGOD OMIGOD OMIGOD !!!! /emote pale woman voice fro C&C > construction options available -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.03.31 17:43:00 - [25] amd please - make it possible to put the base anywere in space - it sucks to get raped by some pirat gankk - and i am shure as hell that if anyone tryes to build a station compleks - the site will be SWARMING whit all kind of low life if u culd build a hidden bases it whuld take enemy some effort to snoop em out -------------------------------------------
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.31 18:34:00 - [26] Quote: amd please - make it possible to put the base anywere in space - it sucks to get raped by some pirat gankk - and i am shure as hell that if anyone tryes to build a station compleks - the site will be SWARMING whit all kind of low life if u culd build a hidden bases it whuld take enemy some effort to snoop em out ya there is a + and - side to that... the idea that "low life" is going to be around is probably high, esp those who can afford to build it first and even others... but there are many other issues... nobody wants things to be carebear either its going to be tough to balance things out. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Serilla	Posted - 2004.03.31 20:35:00 - [27] Edited by: Serilla on 31/03/2004 20:37:32 i would like to see some updates to what was released as well. but we dont always get what we want. sadly ;( Oh and i would have stuck around even without the teases they gave of shiva patch. But when they said it would be six months or more till pos i knew quite a few people who quit.
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.04.01 02:25:00 - [28] problem with EVE is that there is NO high-level gameplay. You have loads of money, loads of skillpoints, you have pretty much done everything you can possibly do in the game, and fought most of the people worth fighting. it gets boring. Shiva, if it is as good as advertised, will be a good solution to the high level gameplay by adding in-debth strategies and will allow fighting over massive ammounts of money invested in the POS.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.04.01 03:17:00 - [29] Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 01/04/2004 03:18:49 Quote: problem with EVE is that there is NO high-level gameplay. You have loads of money, loads of skillpoints, you have pretty much done everything you can possibly do in the game, and fought most of the people worth fighting. it gets boring. Shiva, if it is as good as advertised, will be a good solution to the high level gameplay by adding in-debth strategies and will allow fighting over massive ammounts of money invested in the POS. Yep, thats it right there. People are in the tens of billions of isk wallet range. Where is all this money going to find an exit? What person needs 100 battleships? What is the point to morphite when tech 2 doesnt even need it in vast quantities but is easily available enough. What is the point to even claiming 0.0 space and forming alliances if you can't even defend, hold and have interests in this space? When will we see corporation wars over something more than "you shot me!" or "I dont like you and your slaver ways". Seriously, this game needs high level gameplay and an actual reason for people to leave empire space beyond "more fighting" and "get rich". We wanna conquer space baby! _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Drutort	Posted - 2004.04.01 05:06:00 - [30] Quote: Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 01/04/2004 03:18:49 Quote: problem with EVE is that there is NO high-level gameplay. You have loads of money, loads of skillpoints, you have pretty much done everything you can possibly do in the game, and fought most of the people worth fighting. it gets boring. Shiva, if it is as good as advertised, will be a good solution to the high level gameplay by adding in-debth strategies and will allow fighting over massive ammounts of money invested in the POS. Yep, thats it right there. People are in the tens of billions of isk wallet range. Where is all this money going to find an exit? What person needs 100 battleships? What is the point to morphite when tech 2 doesnt even need it in vast quantities but is easily available enough. What is the point to even claiming 0.0 space and forming alliances if you can't even defend, hold and have interests in this space? When will we see corporation wars over something more than "you shot me!" or "I dont like you and your slaver ways". Seriously, this game needs high level gameplay and an actual reason for people to leave empire space beyond "more fighting" and "get rich". We wanna conquer space baby! ya i know, but who knows when that will happen, and lets hope shiva is 1 step closer to that high-lvl gameplay support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Amos Sommers	Posted - 2004.04.01 05:58:00 - [31] For myself I will patiently wait for it to come out ... its not like we will have the kind of money needed to buy those station components .... Member of The Predators Corporation
Siddy	Posted - 2004.04.01 09:21:00 - [32] 1 BS can ruin whole base complex _1_ BS now - how many peoples u got to partisipate in set up of base? 10? 50? its enought to fire 1 Volley to kill Indy - another to pop the gargo container (if the base equipment survive the initial assault) putting bases on plantet/smoons is bad bad idea - i can search whole planet (no matter on what side of planet u set the base up) in less than hour putting Thous bases in Free location is essential part for hidden bases it takes time to find em out - and the more important thing - it takes some serios skills to find em out -------------------------------------------
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.04.01 14:08:00 - [33] considering you can construct defenses at your base, i dont think 1 bs will cut it...
Siddy	Posted - 2004.04.01 14:09:00 - [34] Quote: considering you can construct defenses at your base, i dont think 1 bs will cut it... ok ... 1 BS and 2 BB's ... ( 165 km optimal rage ) still - hidden bases whuld be ESENTIAL for example pirat base operation or covert mining operation -------------------------------------------
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.04.01 14:22:00 - [35] Now now, Siddy, let's not rush to conclusions. CCP might be devious enough to allow players to fit customized equipment on turrets so that their optimal/accuracy fall off range might excede even as much as 300km (although one shouldn't expect good damage). CCP might have to fix some of the lameness of too long range combat to make player owned bases defensible, though... -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.

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