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Clones - what's the purpose?

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Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.02.14 02:22:00 - [31] I'd love to see the clone replacement automated. All it would take is a checkbox on the clone screen that, when checked, causes the system to automatically purchase a new clone when necessary -- that is, when you lose a clone, or when your clone needs upgrading. The funds are extracted from your account, so the ISK sink is still there, along with the risk of ending up with a negative balance (once your balance is negative, then you will no longer be allowed to auto-purchase clones). And it's an option, so those who want to save some money can leave it unchecked. Heck, I'd pay double the normal clone costs if it were automated like this... -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.14 02:26:00 - [32] Originally by: Becq Starforged I'd love to see the clone replacement automated. All it would take is a checkbox on the clone screen that, when checked, causes the system to automatically purchase a new clone when necessary -- that is, when you lose a clone, or when your clone needs upgrading. The funds are extracted from your account, so the ISK sink is still there, along with the risk of ending up with a negative balance (once your balance is negative, then you will no longer be allowed to auto-purchase clones). And it's an option, so those who want to save some money can leave it unchecked. Heck, I'd pay double the normal clone costs if it were automated like this... This is stupid because it removes the purpose of the clone, which is to add increased risk to death. If you automate it, you have taken clones out of the equation altogether. They serve an important purpose in providing ever increasing penalties for death. The only conclusions I've taken from ytou people is either a) remove clones altogether or b) make them damnably expensive
Elendril Helas Minmatar Red.	Posted - 2008.02.14 02:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Ungdall Originally by: Becq Starforged I'd love to see the clone replacement automated. All it would take is a checkbox on the clone screen that, when checked, causes the system to automatically purchase a new clone when necessary -- that is, when you lose a clone, or when your clone needs upgrading. The funds are extracted from your account, so the ISK sink is still there, along with the risk of ending up with a negative balance (once your balance is negative, then you will no longer be allowed to auto-purchase clones). And it's an option, so those who want to save some money can leave it unchecked. Heck, I'd pay double the normal clone costs if it were automated like this... This is stupid because it removes the purpose of the clone, which is to add increased risk to death. If you automate it, you have taken clones out of the equation altogether. They serve an important purpose in providing ever increasing penalties for death. The only conclusions I've taken from ytou people is either a) remove clones altogether or b) make them damnably expensive Make them damnably expensive. I can live with a 20+m punishment for death. Originally by: Rod Blaine I could kill that impoc with a normal dominix. Posted - 2005.09.18 16:02:00
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.02.14 02:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Ungdall Originally by: Becq Starforged I'd love to see the clone replacement automated. All it would take is a checkbox on the clone screen that, when checked, causes the system to automatically purchase a new clone when necessary -- that is, when you lose a clone, or when your clone needs upgrading. The funds are extracted from your account, so the ISK sink is still there, along with the risk of ending up with a negative balance (once your balance is negative, then you will no longer be allowed to auto-purchase clones). And it's an option, so those who want to save some money can leave it unchecked. Heck, I'd pay double the normal clone costs if it were automated like this... This is stupid because it removes the purpose of the clone, which is to add increased risk to death. If you automate it, you have taken clones out of the equation altogether. They serve an important purpose in providing ever increasing penalties for death. The only conclusions I've taken from ytou people is either a) remove clones altogether or b) make them damnably expensive The purpose of the clone is to provide a default death penalty, and the loss of implants adds to that death penalty. What I suggested does nothing to remove that penalty -- or even makes the penalty more significant. What I dislike, however, is how the current system punishes you not for fighting and losing, but for experiencing nothing more than a moment of forgetfulness. It has nothing to do with 'risk'. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Troye Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.02.14 02:41:00 - [35] Perhaps you'd prefer it if all we had to do was find our nearest graveyard and respawn on the spot? It's only an antiquated game mechanic in your eyes because people generaly can't handle any significant losses to they're characters anymore, remember EVE came before the spate of WoW like games that saterate the market nowadays. Your OP is typical of someone who's just been ganked and whats the game changed accordingly, we've all lost SPs at some point, you only have yourself to blame. _______________________________________ "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics...Even if you win, you're still ******. "
Troye Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.02.14 02:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Becq Starforged What I dislike, however, is how the current system punishes you not for fighting and losing, but for experiencing nothing more than a moment of forgetfulness. It has nothing to do with 'risk'. I got my ass kicked after forgetting to turn on my cloak on a recon ship in enemy territory, are suggesting the cloaking should have been an automatic feature? Forgetfulness however trivial has serious repercussions in all aspects of EVE, one thingÆs for sure though; once you've lost SPs to a clone you won't forget it again (Unless your just stupid which I'm sure your not) _______________________________________ "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics...Even if you win, you're still ******. "
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.02.14 03:05:00 - [37] Basically, what we have is this: * If you find yourself in a battle, you must apply your skills toward defeating your foe and saving your ship. If you fail, you are penalized with the lost ISK value of your ship, much of which can be offset by insurance if you fly non-premium ships. * Having lost your ship, you are given the oportunity to apply your navigational skills to the task of getting your pod to safety. If you foes catch you and destroy your pod, you are penalized with the lost ISK value of your implants -- though you can operate without implants to reduce this risk. * Once back in the station, you must remember to click the "I'd like to keep my SP, thank you" button. If you neglect to click this button each time you lose a pod, CCP will fall upon you like the Wrath of the Almighty and strip weeks of training time from you. So basically, there is insignificant risk with respect to partipation in combat, or even pod loss. But God help you should you forget that mouse click! Again, why should so much be riding on a single mouse click which, when it comes down to it really adds nothing to the game? In order to add 'risk' to the game, should CCP add code that causes a popup on the screen at random intervals during battles that says "Your engines are overheating, do you want to add coolant (Y/N)?" And if you don't click it within 10 seconds your ship explodes? It's basically the same thing. It's not 'risk', it's punishment for not following a minor ritual that has been deemed necessary following each death. There's no value in requiring that button click in the game, so why keep it? -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Lucas Garin Caldari Solar Angels	Posted - 2008.02.14 04:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Becq Starforged Basically, what we have is this: It's not 'risk', it's punishment for not following a minor ritual that has been deemed necessary following each death. Not so. If you don't take the time to follow the "minor ritual" of creating/updating your clone, then you "risk" losing SP until you do. The choice is yours alone. CCP shouldn't have to hold your hand or remind you. And more often than not, for older and more experienced characters, being victims of their own stupidity or laziness is the only real consequence of dying. And a character your age really has no excuse other than that. -- "Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.14 04:22:00 - [39] How can you forget to update your clone? Your clone should be in a station with a medical facility, so if you get pod killed you buy a new clone. Its only a very few people who fly with a default clone and lose skill points. These are probably the same people that jump into 0.0 in a CNR without a scout and then complain about gate camps.
Heimdal Mid	Posted - 2008.02.14 04:25:00 - [40] OP: Maybe this game is too hard for you. Perhaps you should try other, easier, games?
Anell Minmatar Evil Avatar Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.14 05:36:00 - [41] A lot of people here are assuming that clones are there to provide a little bit more risk into the game. I suppose thats the justification these days but thats rather after the fact. The truth is that clones were designed under a completely different game mechanic then currently exists. Before (and even during) beta there was a lot of discussion around the death mechanics. The player base was told that every time you die you would lose skill points. The amount of skill points you lost would be based upon the quality of clone you had. If you had a really poor quality clone you would lose a lot of points, better quality meant fewer points. But always you would lose skill points. This idea was dropped quite quickly when in practice it was discovered that dying was much easier then they thought and skill points became rather difficult to obtain (or rather very lengthy). Thus the player base would not tolerate constantly losing skill points. The current system is therefore much softer then the one originally planned. Under the original system clones made more sense then they do now but the whole thing was already coded in so why remove it?
Jameroz Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.14 05:45:00 - [42] I don't mind clones, but somekind autobuy option would be nice. Maybe atleast warning when undocking with clone that can't hold your skillpoints?
Arkedon Caldari Pegasus Knights	Posted - 2008.02.14 07:16:00 - [43] I forgot to activate my shield booster during combat and I lost my ship - hours worth of mining to build a new one. CCP should change it so that the ships automatically activate the necessary modules when needed. I should not be punished for forgetting a minor ritual such as clicking on the shield booster. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing	Posted - 2008.02.14 07:31:00 - [44] Originally by: Arkedon I forgot to activate my shield booster during combat and I lost my ship - hours worth of mining to build a new one. CCP should change it so that the ships automatically activate the necessary modules when needed. I should not be punished for forgetting a minor ritual such as clicking on the shield booster. OMG!! It happened to you too?? CCP THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! ---
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.02.14 10:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Elendril Helas This is a whine. Really. Yes, I was just pod-killed. Yes, I lost a couple weeks of training. Yes, I am relatively ****ed off. This answers your own question, to be honest.
Kransthow AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.14 10:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat OMG!! It happened to you too?? CCP THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Raimo Gallente Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.14 13:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Becq Starforged Again, why should so much be riding on a single mouse click which, when it comes down to it really adds nothing to the game? In order to add 'risk' to the game, should CCP add code that causes a popup on the screen at random intervals during battles that says "Your engines are overheating, do you want to add coolant (Y/N)?" And if you don't click it within 10 seconds your ship explodes? It's basically the same thing. It's not 'risk', it's punishment for not following a minor ritual that has been deemed necessary following each death. There's no value in requiring that button click in the game, so why keep it? This. Adds nothing to the game. If ISK sink is needed implement autobuy. If 0.0 warfare gets nerfed retain old ways in 0.0 with notification when entering. No, I have never lost SP but just find it silly. *CCP, please improve the UI and make it customizable with more assignable key commands!*
Elison Muerte The Halibuts	Posted - 2008.02.14 13:32:00 - [48] note to self: check clone when i get home dont think i've upgraded my clone in ages :/
Cosmar Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.02.14 13:37:00 - [49] When you die you should at the very least be reminded of the lack of a clone by ingame mail, or maybe get a popup choice to buy a new one if you're at a cloning facility. I don't think cloning should be removed altogether though. There's no point in annoying people arbitrarly. The only reason this happens by mistake is poor interface design that hides important information from the user - each time you open your character page and you have less sp then your clone, the game should make that obvious in big red letters. Hiding simple mechanics under an unnecessarly unwieldy interface does not make the game complex. Just frustrating. Steep learning curve of the gameplay - design decision. Steep learning curve of the interface or controls - design problem.
Laila Eldgorn	Posted - 2008.02.14 14:38:00 - [50] It's pretty dumb you have to upgrade your clone after getting podded. Clone cost is nothing compared to implants or whatever so it's not even actually a death penalty. At least make a reminder window appear occassionally when undocking if you haven't updated your clone to sufficient level.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.14 14:48:00 - [51] Thankfully my own lesson in keeping the clone up to date came painlessly. After a wicked gatecamp breaking fight in Providence, I returned to the station, opened the character sheet to check my training time left and saw my 10 million SP toon had an alpha grade clone. That is the ONLY time I've ever flown with a sub-grade clone, EVER. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.

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